By you yes, not by anyone with an actual grasp of science.

There is no surrender of analytic thought. The climate and the world are just so big, have so many variables and so much "chaos", which makes any predictions almost impossible. Altho the two things are different, its about as reliable as predicting the weather next year!

Jo xxx

Sorry I just can't be bothered to google like you good people. Lynn and Matt will be along soon you know evidence to the contrary is out there, so maybe it's some of you who have closed mind.

No, the data are not being disputed.

The data are observable changes, such as the rapid melt of the ice caps and the temperature of the atmosphere, for example. There is no argument about that. It is measurable. They change over time, but it is empirical research.

Hypotheses are then tested against the data, sometimes with computer modeling to attempt to see into the future where facts cannot be tested because they haven't happened yet. Some of these will be wrong, no doubt, and the assorted scientific articles that have been posted on this thread fully admit that.

To go from that fact to the assumption that any scientific research is invalid and not worth reading or taking seriously is not only a logical fallacy but is the spirit of the dark ages, rather than that of the Enlightenment.

It isn't a crystal ball. They follow scientific principles to do the modeling. Some will turn out to be correct, others not, just like the weather. See above post.

Quite, ignoring the chaos effect that is ever present and of course making sure they "please" their sponsors with the results!

In the end tho, the climate is changing, it always has, it always will. Even if we were to abolish ALL forms of fossil fuel burning tomorrow, it would still change - Now, how on earth would that effect us?? Forget about the future generations for a minute. How many of us would be happy to wake up tomorrow morning without any electricity, heating, cars, shops, no more discussions on forums... and live like that for the rest of our lives???

Renewable energy isnt effective right now, we have absolutely no control over China and Indias fuel burning.... what on earth would happen??? Cos if this was a serious threat, this is what would have to happen - just to save the planet for future generations!

Jo xxx

And all of this is quite different from the science of what is happening and what might be causing it.

What we decide to do about it, politically, economically and socially is quite a separate issue. Much of the manipulation of people's thought happens by those with vested interests in the status quo - they are trying to "please" you, not just "sponsors" because people don't want to hear about reality and the changes they might have to make.

The only way to counter that manipulation is to seek, support and understand the science. That goes for China and India too, not just "us".

There you have it, if you don't believe, you don't understand the science. From a couple of brain boxes

Like I say, the climate has always changed and it always will, even the experts dont fully understand the science, its not just science - or as Rugby matt would say "fysics"! Its about the chaos theory and outside cosmic influences - whatever we do, we cant live without what we have and even if we did, it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference to the outcome - apart from the fact we'd thin the population out - lets face it, without any fuel, we'd be pretty much stone age! So if this whole game is just anti capitalist propaganda (which many suggest) - its not going to end well......... and the climate will still change!

Jo xxx

As I said - I don't 'believe'.

The people who are being most heavily sponsored are those 3% of climate change scientists who deny it is happening. They are very definitely on the money side.

Obviously but this is irrelevant when considering AGW

So fixing the serious threat would be unthinkable so there isn't a serious threat? That is very bizarre thinking. And I can see now why you 'don't want to believe' it.

I agree with you Jackytoo. A huge money making enterprise has been spun out of it. I am not saying that the climate is not changing. The climate has changed and will continue to change as it has done over the millenea. What I am saying is that governments and corporations - working in tandem are using this fact of climate change which is a natural process (albeit it can be well argued that some human activities are acting as a catalyst) to loot Joe public to fund billion dollar hare-brained carbon capture schemes.

No, they're the ones who arent making any money - You only have to look around at all of the businesses, schemes and nonsense that has grown up around "global warming" - its ridiculous - even Easy jets, £5 "green" tax - whats that for FFS???? Its actually that, above all else that makes me suspicious of the whole man made climate change thing!

And 3% scientists who deny??? Is that the figure from the "believers", the government, your chosen links???

Jo xxx

Oh dear god!

WRONG! The petrochemical, airline, shipping, car manufacturing, mining and other industries are pouring massive funds into climate change denial as it threatens their core business. They fund many of the main agencies for denial including the Heartland Institute - and they directly fund climate change denial 'science'.

Anyway - I don't think it's particularly relevant. Just concentrate on the science. Predicting the effects might well be difficult (although not impossible) but the basic theories are really quite simple.