Gibraltar
 

Even though this is the Spanish forum of the British expats I don't think my question is very much off-topic of this forum.

My interest is the small British exclave of Gibraltar. It is a very small area at the bottom of the Iberian peninsula. Well, you don't need to be told that. My question is whether it is easy to move to and from Spain to Gibraltar as Britain and Spain have had their differences over the control of that tiny area.

Do you think Spain is a tad hypocritical with its demands for Gibraltar as at the same time they have their own exclaves of Ceuta and Melilla firmly on the African continent and have not even considered the idea of negotiating their position with Morocco?

Well, that was a side-remark. My interest is how much you know about Gibraltar, life there and the bureaucratic formalities.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Best to ask the Monkeys, I hear they are in charge. Well they were when I was stationed there.:lol:

Re: Gibraltar
 

Strikes me there are quite a few people live Spain, work Gibraltar, some use Gib for shopping, - I'm sure they'll be along in due course to advise.

Re: Gibraltar
 

I go to Gibraltar for shopping and cheap petrol, but I dont know much about it. I think it would be a nicer place tho if it wasnt a British military base! I cant understand why the Brits own it all or why they've turned it into such an ugly area

Jo xxx

Re: Gibraltar
 

I have a reasonable knowledge of Gibraltar if you would like to ask direct questions.

The reason the Brits own it is because they won it in 1704, I am sure they would like to hand it over to the Local Gibraltarians, but Spain keeps quoting their version of the Treaty of Utrecht in which they claim that Gibraltar must revert to Spanish control if Britain ever gives up ownership. This precludes the possibilty of Gibraltar becoming independent.

The Gibraltarians have had two referendums about their future:-

1967 :- 12168 for Britain 44 for Spain

2002 :- 17900 for Britain 187 for Spain

You will notice that the vote for Spain has increased, and if it carries on increasing at the same rate Spain might win in a few thousand years :p:p:p

Re: Gibraltar
 

Gib was cut off from Spain totally for about 12 or 13 years, the only way 'anything' could be got in or out was by ship or aircraft... even such things as most building materials. On top of this it was fairly much a large army camp that had a civilian population, army camps have seemed to have the same or similar style, basic but functional... which is what Gib became and the obstacles that having to bring everything in by ship or air created probably contributed to the run down look it has although it has improved a lot since the days when the border first opened. Gib always struck me as one big army camp, things where reused, if something broke then the army where sent to fix it... which isn't a problem as the army would generally do a good job at fixing but they would use whatever materials they could get their hands on which is Gibs case where generally left over or taken down from somewhere else at one time.

I remember my parents going to Gib from Spain when the border was closed, they took a ferry to Morocco and then from Morocco to Gib... it was the only way back then and very few did the trip.

Working on the presumption that when you bring up a generation or generations then they will generally behave, create and continue as they know or where shown when they go through life or become adults, so the character 'run down feel' of Gib probably also exists because that is the way it was when many of the civi people that are there now where there then. Probably just the same sort of process that gives countries the character that they have.

HTH

Re: Gibraltar
 

Well, there are a lot of questions about the place but the most important question is do you need a passport to enter Gibraltar from Spain or the other way round? After all, Gibraltar is not part of the UK, its status is overseas territory, or something, so they are de facto semi-independent.

Re: Gibraltar
 

YES! The first time we "nearly" went to Gib, we got 3/4 of the way there and my son innocently asked if we needed passports... we did an emergency stop and went to Ronda instead!


Jo xxx

Re: Gibraltar
 

Yes you need a passport or an ID card, but you cannot cross on residencia/NIE card . These documents are checked by the Spanish authorities before they will allow you to leave Spain.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Actually I think you will find the Spanish are not the issue, it is the British that require the passport. I have actually used my Spanish NIE card to go through Spanish customs a couple of times but always been asked for my passport by the British.

Of course in saying this I think the last time I did this was about 2 years ago...

Re: Gibraltar
 

The reason ID is required, in either direction, is because Gibraltar, with the UK, is not part of "Schengen" Europe and national identity documents are required for entry or exit.

As the only valid national identity document available to British nationals is a passport - that is what you have to produce it.

A Spanish national, on the other hand, can use either a DNI (ID card) or a Spanish passport.

If the UK ever introduce an ID card that would also be acceptable.

Re: Gibraltar
 

It is more than two years ago that I was stopped leaving Spain on my NIE by the Spanish.
Friends have enquired with the Spanish authorities and been told that the NIE is not acceptable.
The reason that Gibraltar will not accept your NIE is that Spain will not let you re-enter on your NIE, so Gibraltar is doing you a favour by preventing you from being trapped there by the Spanish

Re: Gibraltar
 

Gibraltar is doing no one a favor Fredbargate, I think you will find you are mistaken in what you are saying.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Then may I suggest you put it to the test

Re: Gibraltar
 

I think you will find it more likely that it is because non Schengen countries (Gib) only allow entry with a passport or ID cards and an NIE is not an ID card.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Are you sure you mean an NIE?

An NIE is just a piece of paper with no photo or even a valid address.

It is just a piece of paper giving you a number which is only used for fiscal purposes - it has nothing whatsoever to do with proving your identity.

Re: Gibraltar
 

My NIE is as you describe, but there is a plastic version now, maybe that has a pic on it??

Re: Gibraltar
 

How come you are the only person to know about it ? ;-))

Re: Gibraltar
 

Until recently all 'residencias'( not NIE )were credit card size with photo. Now they are a certificate with no photo so no use as ID. The NIE certificate is a seperate thing.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Trouble is, I don´t... just informed guesswork, really. Story of my life:lol:

Re: Gibraltar
 

How do the Spaniards excuse the fact that while they demand Gibraltar to be annexed to Spain because it belongs to the same land-mass, they have no problems with having Ceuta and Melilla on the Moroccan coast? After all, the Moroccans have stated their claims on those territories just as vehemently as the Spaniards have done with Gibraltar.

Re: Gibraltar
 

No idea. I guess they have their reasons which maybe important to them or not?????? Does it matter??


Jo xxx

Re: Gibraltar
 

Lol. You've suddenly become very political. By your argument Northern Ireland should have been part of Ireland politically years ago. Do you think Northern Ireland should be given to Ireland THR? ( wonder if THR can find equivalent numbers of citizens of Ceuta or Melilla who demand unity with Morocco - of course he can't).

Re: Gibraltar
 

The majority of the people of Gibraltar want to remain a UK overseas territory. Spain wants Gibraltar to be part of Spain.

The majority of people of Ceuta and Melilla want to remain Spanish. Morocco wants Ceuta and Melilla to be parts of Morocco.

My point was that at the same time Spain claims something and sticks to something else.

Re: Gibraltar
 

yes!

Jo xx

Re: Gibraltar
 

I don`t think the Moroccans are very worried, most of them have pitches at Fuengirola carboot sale anyway.

Re: Gibraltar
 

I dont think anyone's very worried are they??

Jo xxx

Re: Gibraltar
 

A small correction to that otherwise true statement.

Most Gibraltarians want independence, unfortunately the Spanish insistence that a three hundred year old treaty is still representative today precludes that possibility.

Re: Gibraltar
 

I've visited Gibraltar a few times when I was living down that way (and since) and I've always wondered why it looked so exciting from a distance, and so dull once actually there. Last September when I visited there was some kind of fiesta for the locals, the Spanish, and a few of them were marching around in a kind half-uniform and a mediocre band was playing.

I was eating fish and chips overlooking the square, along with a few other tourists. The wind was blowing a bit and there was a strange air of disinterest all around. Yet all the hotels were fully booked.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Indeed, Gibraltar was ceded to Great Britain "for ever", but it now seems they want to renege on that deal. We ceded Minorca to the Spanish, should we now ask for it back? But for me the most important fact is that well over 90% of the "llanitos" want nothing whatsoever to do with Spain. It's strange that none of Spain's ex territories around the world have wanted anything to do with them. South America, Cuba, Philippines etc have all been glad to see the back of them. Meanwhile GB still has around 53 members in the Commonwealth, The Falklands, Gib etc still want ties with UK, why is that? I'm sure the Commonwealth will become diluted in years to come, but to date it's lasted far longer than anything the Spanish have had. Personally I have only been to GIB once and will not be rushing back, they could have it for me, but a deal's a deal, isn't it?:confused:

Re: Gibraltar
 

Hi There.
I have been living in Gibraltar for 3 months, and absolutely love living here, as do my little boy and husband. I travel into Spain 2 or 3 times a week for kids activities and exploring. Having spoken to other expats living in the Costas, I feel we made the right decision by living in Gib not Costa del Sol. We get the best of both worlds. For us Gibraltar is a friendly, safe, relaxed place with a huge mix of nationalities and activities for everyone. Admittedly it is hardly the culinary capital of the world, but with Spain on our doorstep we are spoilt for food shops and restaurants.

Re: Gibraltar
 

Enjoy! There is a lot of history to the place, lot more than there is to see if visiting the average spanish village. Many knock the place after a quick trip down Main St. bit of a snob thing, fashionable to knock the place.

Re: Gibraltar
 

I think you hit the nail on the head, for some reason Gibraltar is very very unfashionable at the moment (with those who DON'T live here) and as you said it is therefore fashionable to criticise the place. Often by people who have never explored it, lived here and also those who can't afford to live here!

Re: Gibraltar
 

No, it just reminds me of Jaywick in the UK and the blue bombers when I was a kid on holiday. lo

Re: Gibraltar
 

we used to go to Jaywick!


isn't that where all the streets were called after cars/car manufacturers?

Re: Gibraltar
 

Actually, it seems more accurate to me that it is only the people who live there that defend it.

As for affording to live there, it's hardly a rich man's land like some claim it to be....sure there are the Ocean Village's etc, but look out of your balcony window and what do you see?
Ocean Heights on one side, and Watergardens on the other....... :unsure:

Re: Gibraltar
 

Thats it, and no drains, the blue bombers as we called them, ex army fuel tankers used to come round and suck the chemical toilets out. yuk

Some pics here

Re: Gibraltar
 

I've had a long association with Gibraltar and have no knowledge of chemical toilets in any permanent buildings there, would you like to expound ?

But on a point of interest Gibraltar has a saltwater infrastructure which is used for toilet flushing and fire hydrants

Re: Gibraltar
 

Have I got me wires crossed ???
:o:o:o

Re: Gibraltar
 

yep;)

they were all taken before my time there - but if memory serves me it hadn't changed much by the mid 60s

it has always struck me as funny that we'd go during the 'Vauxhall fortnight' (my dad worked for them) & stay in 'Cortina Road' or something along those lines:rofl: