Even though this is the Spanish forum of the British expats I don't think my question is very much off-topic of this forum.

My interest is the small British exclave of Gibraltar. It is a very small area at the bottom of the Iberian peninsula. Well, you don't need to be told that. My question is whether it is easy to move to and from Spain to Gibraltar as Britain and Spain have had their differences over the control of that tiny area.

Do you think Spain is a tad hypocritical with its demands for Gibraltar as at the same time they have their own exclaves of Ceuta and Melilla firmly on the African continent and have not even considered the idea of negotiating their position with Morocco?

Well, that was a side-remark. My interest is how much you know about Gibraltar, life there and the bureaucratic formalities.

Best to ask the Monkeys, I hear they are in charge. Well they were when I was stationed there.

Strikes me there are quite a few people live Spain, work Gibraltar, some use Gib for shopping, - I'm sure they'll be along in due course to advise.

I go to Gibraltar for shopping and cheap petrol, but I dont know much about it. I think it would be a nicer place tho if it wasnt a British military base! I cant understand why the Brits own it all or why they've turned it into such an ugly area

Jo xxx

I have a reasonable knowledge of Gibraltar if you would like to ask direct questions.

The reason the Brits own it is because they won it in 1704, I am sure they would like to hand it over to the Local Gibraltarians, but Spain keeps quoting their version of the Treaty of Utrecht in which they claim that Gibraltar must revert to Spanish control if Britain ever gives up ownership. This precludes the possibilty of Gibraltar becoming independent.

The Gibraltarians have had two referendums about their future:-

1967 :- 12168 for Britain 44 for Spain

2002 :- 17900 for Britain 187 for Spain

You will notice that the vote for Spain has increased, and if it carries on increasing at the same rate Spain might win in a few thousand years

Gib was cut off from Spain totally for about 12 or 13 years, the only way 'anything' could be got in or out was by ship or aircraft... even such things as most building materials. On top of this it was fairly much a large army camp that had a civilian population, army camps have seemed to have the same or similar style, basic but functional... which is what Gib became and the obstacles that having to bring everything in by ship or air created probably contributed to the run down look it has although it has improved a lot since the days when the border first opened. Gib always struck me as one big army camp, things where reused, if something broke then the army where sent to fix it... which isn't a problem as the army would generally do a good job at fixing but they would use whatever materials they could get their hands on which is Gibs case where generally left over or taken down from somewhere else at one time.

I remember my parents going to Gib from Spain when the border was closed, they took a ferry to Morocco and then from Morocco to Gib... it was the only way back then and very few did the trip.

Working on the presumption that when you bring up a generation or generations then they will generally behave, create and continue as they know or where shown when they go through life or become adults, so the character 'run down feel' of Gib probably also exists because that is the way it was when many of the civi people that are there now where there then. Probably just the same sort of process that gives countries the character that they have.

HTH

Well, there are a lot of questions about the place but the most important question is do you need a passport to enter Gibraltar from Spain or the other way round? After all, Gibraltar is not part of the UK, its status is overseas territory, or something, so they are de facto semi-independent.

YES! The first time we "nearly" went to Gib, we got 3/4 of the way there and my son innocently asked if we needed passports... we did an emergency stop and went to Ronda instead!


Jo xxx

Yes you need a passport or an ID card, but you cannot cross on residencia/NIE card . These documents are checked by the Spanish authorities before they will allow you to leave Spain.

Actually I think you will find the Spanish are not the issue, it is the British that require the passport. I have actually used my Spanish NIE card to go through Spanish customs a couple of times but always been asked for my passport by the British.

Of course in saying this I think the last time I did this was about 2 years ago...

The reason ID is required, in either direction, is because Gibraltar, with the UK, is not part of "Schengen" Europe and national identity documents are required for entry or exit.

As the only valid national identity document available to British nationals is a passport - that is what you have to produce it.

A Spanish national, on the other hand, can use either a DNI (ID card) or a Spanish passport.

If the UK ever introduce an ID card that would also be acceptable.

It is more than two years ago that I was stopped leaving Spain on my NIE by the Spanish.
Friends have enquired with the Spanish authorities and been told that the NIE is not acceptable.
The reason that Gibraltar will not accept your NIE is that Spain will not let you re-enter on your NIE, so Gibraltar is doing you a favour by preventing you from being trapped there by the Spanish

Gibraltar is doing no one a favor Fredbargate, I think you will find you are mistaken in what you are saying.

Then may I suggest you put it to the test

I think you will find it more likely that it is because non Schengen countries (Gib) only allow entry with a passport or ID cards and an NIE is not an ID card.