I go to Spain to escape the rat race that I see on a daily basis in a large city in the UK....I see people every day with stressed out looks on their faces, I see road rage and diabolical driving, I see people buying things on the never never that realistically they will never pay for. I see mums going out to work to pay for their materialistic lifestyle and their children coming home to a microwave meal....Is that progress?..is that a life people wish for and aspire to?

in answer to your question, lets state some obious facts.

It is possible to secape the rat race while still living in the UK, there are loads of little villages with great communities and the quain quiet life that lots of you desire. The reason why not, is, that it takes a lot more money to buy your detached (not a housing estate though, just like an URB) house, with enough land, away from the rabble, but not too isolated, an nice old character house to boot.
Unaffordable in the UK, because all the seriously monied have beaten you to it and now the prices are way above your price range(I dont mean anyone personally, just general comments=
But one can still come to Spain and get these little rural bargains because surprise, surprise, the local want and NEED other things in life.

That is the reason that you can still get these bargains because ther younger generation have had to move on, to be able to afford to live, for all the bangers on about wealth being in eating a freakin orange off the tree in the garden, it doesnt wash with me and obviously didnt was with all the nice accomodating Spanish folk who have kindly moved out to make way for you all to get your hands on your nice little "fincas" at bargain prices.

But someone please correct me, it this wanst the case in the UK a few years ago, local population moving out of rural communities and small villages in the UK because of lack of jobs?

Is it just a coincidence that most who turn their back on the "ratrace" are the ones who can, ie retired or early retired?

How many would have chosen to have their wealth measured by the amount of olive oil they have with their bread and the wonderful sunset from the terrace, before they had edcated their children, and paid off the mortgage on their UK house, which in almost every case of the posters on here, partly or totally funded their "less materialistic lifestyle, in the sun" Dont make me laugh...

There does seem to be a lot of discussion on this topic and some, not to put too fine a point on it seem to be speaking out of the wrong orrifice and to answer your question,is the rat race is what people aspire to. The answer is yes. Just like most if not all of you did in your time. So dont be so patronising.

Spot on JLFS. I was one who got out of the rat rate, retired early and bought a place in the sun. Now I am bored sh1tless and have gone back to work albeit part time - how sad is that?

There are still many areas in the UK where property is cheap(er), life runs at a much slower pace, there is a sense of local community and the locals are happy (or maybe not so happy?) to live without those little luxuries that only money can buy.

I've seen that in large Spanish cities too - especially the road rage! You cant expect Spain to hold back its progress simply because you and other expats want them to stay as they are. Spain and the Spanish people have the climate and space on their side, which always makes life less stressed, but everything else is just how it is! No one can come along and say "right, stop now, you've progressed enough"

Jo xxx

I was discussing this subject with some British friends, (who've lived here forever) earlier today and they were saying that most small, quaint Spanish villages are losing most of their spanish inhabitants due to the younger generation going off to the cities to work and they would be dying and derelict if it wasnt for he expats who come over and are considered a godsend as they are the only ones who want to live in such communities these days. Soon these little villages will only be inhabited by Brits!! It'll be the coastal towns that are synonymous with "the British Expat" that will have all the Spanish young folk working and playing!

Jo xxx

A friend and also my ex Spanish teacher has led a fairly hippy type experience in UK for years, and just finally upped sticks and done up an extremely rural place in Galicia. A tiny village in the middle of nowhere, with a very ageing population of about a dozen! A bit rural even for me, but they lived an isolated life here in UK anyway, so they are both happy as Larry! He could pass for Spanish, both in looks and in the language, so no problem for them, and he has ended up with a lot of property for very little money.

I agree with most of the comments on here, except the ones equating Spanish history and culture with "riding donkeys". Then you could equally associate British culture with "poor houses" and "whole families living in one room and sending the children off to the factories", which was the way for the working class majority in the UK 100 years ago.

Spain has as much rat race as the UK does. The only difference, as you say, is there are vast parts of Spain that are not densely populated and have very cheap property for expats, or anyone else who wants to live there, either in the form of rundown country houses or cheap urbanisations of concrete.

The difference between the UK and Spain is that two thirds of Spain never had an industrial revolution, that has completely defined the two countries.

I do not agree that progress is about listening to pop music or buying cheap Chinese tat and microwave meals (that seems to be the very oppositve), but it is about having choices and being in control of your own destiny. For the majority of Spaniards this means living in a big city and sending your kids to uni, which is what most families aspire to - and are doing.

What many of the small Spainish communities have going for them is a very strong sense of family values, they may not have much in the way of 'things' but they have strength in numbers, they care and look out for each other, they employ each other, they share more with each other. They have a strong faith and keep their customs going with their street parties and religious festivals keeping strong links with their culture and their past.......do you not think much of that has been lost in the 'new' western society? do you not think we are more selfish and insular than we used to be? is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Do they?

Maybe in the small villages, but you are maybe describing 5% of Spaniards here. Or maybe you are describing society in Andalucia 50 years ago?

After all Spain has the highest proportion of people who live in cities in the whole of Europe.

I actually think the main difference between the UK and Spain is that the extended family in Spain is still very, very important. And Spanish people tend to have better social skills, although they are not actually particularly open people.

But, to be honest, so so many people in Spain dont live in the place they were born nowadays. Noone I play tennis with in Malaga is actually from Malaga, they are from Cadiz, Jaen, Atequera, Bilbao etc. Spanish society is actually very mobile, certainly for those who are under 40.

Sorry, but only an idiot (read into that what you will) would post a thread irrelevent to the Spain forum here when there are other forums for the purpose, if it`s about Spain then maybe mention it in the title.

Not having a pop, just trying to point you in the right direction of where to post your threads that do not even mention Spain.

I think small communities are the same in all european countries. Villages in the UK have their traditions like the village fete, harvest supper, pantomime etc. Even Xmas meals have their own traditions in all countries. Inner cities are different but I suppose they are in Spain too.

Good posts JFLS, JO and Cricketman

It is just as easy to escape the rat race in the UK, as it is in Spain.

Likewise it is just as easy to be involved in the diabolical city life rat race in Spanish big cities as in those in the UK.

I quite agree with your point about today's materialistic lifestyle which applies to all the Western world and Spain is certainly no exception to that.

Spain seems to be adapting to the rat race fairly quickly, and strangely enough many of them actually prefer living in the middle of it, indeed given the choice they often choose a house next to a busy road rather than one in a quiet spot.

With regard to UK cultural attractions, maybe they're not always appreciated or even noticed, by British ppl living in the middle of them or brought up amongst them.
Britain is still one of the most popular cultural attractions or destinations in the World...indeed it's highly unlikely they all arrive to enjoy endless hours of blue sky and sunshine.
Spain may attract more visitors, however if you exclude those who only visit for the proverbial sun,sand,sex and sangria, then probably fewer ppl. visit for its undoubted cultural attractions, than visit the UK for similar reasons.

Good post some K for that, the soon that the Spanish are accepted as ordinary people no more nor less, the better.

Well, I’ve seen some good posts on this interesting thread.

I came to Spain for the weather, cheapness and the friendly people (and if it had anything to do with the English taxman, I’m keeping that to myself).

I must admit I did expect to see the odd donkey, but came to Estepona on the Costa del Sol and didn’t see any for a long time, the place was full of BMWs. I didn’t come to retire but had a decent amount of money to start a small business, which prospered.

I moved around a bit and never regretted coming over, and the place grew on me. The visits back to England became less and less frequent and most of my visitors from the UK now come to see me here.

And after all those years, I’m almost legal now, and even had some more legal papers stamped on this very day by an extremely cheerful Spanish official – he was impressed with the large bundle I had put in front of him.

I’m not going to but it did cross my mind that I could now apply for Spanish nationality, I’ve been in the country for long enough.

I consider it too dangerous, perhaps the national service bit is retrospective and I could find myself fighting in Afghanistan.