Yes its a shame that the thread devolved like this. In my previous post I asked Pablo to attach his document, that explains perfectly his proposition. I was hoping for a discussion around that. Now I have a negative feeling about it all.

I think its clear that there are a group of people here that object to any concern about this case. Lets call them the ‘A-Team’ (I’ll let you choose what the ‘A’ stands for, depending on what side you are on!) Here's what I think:

MikeJ: He is a forum regular that has posted on a variety of threads, and for me has earned his credibility from his track record of informational and helpful posts. We may not always agree, but I can respect his views and in this case his questions/concerns/suspicions etc. I cannot say the same for some members of the A team, some of whom who post useless one-liners – or even no comment at all to move the discussion forward, just icons. Note I exclude Alice from this as she has actually tried to make her point.

I found it absurd that someone would say that I ‘insulted Pablo’. Fortunately Pablo himself said that he understood that these points were part of the discussion. No-one knows better than him on this subject!

Buying/Selling: Whether you are selling door-to-door, telemarketing, selling luxury yachts... etc... or a legal service you NEED to handle customer objections – its totally normal business practice. If someone cant handle objections don't work with them - s/he is not a pro!: If you are the buyer you MUST openly discuss your questions/concerns/suspicions... its no use being ’polite’ otherwise you are heading for a kicking, and some lessons to learn.

Pablo started this thread so made a ‘precedent’ here and so opened himself up to questions/concerns/suspicions. And in fact he asked for them. It is totally reasonable therefore that these were raised on this forum on the thread he started. Again Pablo himself said it was OK.

What I find really interesting is that Pablo said that no-one has signed up yet! So why aren't the A team taking action and signing up! They are so supportive... where's the action behind the talk (or icons)!!! Time to put your money down!

UNLESS of course the A team are part of the group of friends of Pablo who have already signed up. If that is the case then they have a vested interest - one that they haven't disclosed. If this is the case they also want our money! To get to the 40 needed for the action!! If so its not a good thing IMO.

Pablo its clear that this isn't working, Here are my concerns

1. 5200Eur is not a lot of money. What happens next year when the money is spent and you are looking for other paid business? This is a 3+ year process. Note as mentioned I am perfectly happy with a fixed cost up front (not interested in indemnity or no win no fee)
2. You have excellent credentials – but as a newly qualified lawyer how much experience do you have taking a town hall to court?
3. I don't think you have explained the situation if we win... and how the council will pay. And what will happen regarding an illegal EUC at that point. And how CE will be maintained in this case where no money is coming in. Just because they are legally required to provide services, doesn't mean they can. I think you will agree that in the more sober of conversations this has come up often.
4. I don't know what exposure I am taking over and above the 155 payment (incl VAT)... if we lose the first round (or later?) there may be costs to pay. I am NOT asking for an indemnity, just worried about the additional costs
5. This is not your fault but I personally have had awful experiences with Spanish lawyers, and the EUC and Town hall for that matter. So I am wary.
6. The subject of the bank guarantees has come up several times (and at your presentation). I wonder if we can do something about this and not have a allegedly illegal organisation having oversight of this

Since this isn't working I propose the following: A new contract that says

1. You will prosecute this till the very end – going through all the appeals process, or repay the money. This is what the first payment buys us. If we win then that is all we have paid.
2. You add a clause saying that the maximum exposure for us is ‘X’ – at any time during the process – for additional costs we are required to pay in case we lose at any stage. I would like to see what X is. Again not an indemnity, against loss but a limit to my exposure. You can estimate what the costs would be that we would need to pay back if we lose, add a cover to protect yourself and let us know what ‘X’ is. This way we know how much we are signing up to.. and the maximum I will have to and expect to pay in addition if we lose – at any stage. You said that it was 'unlikely' that the judge awards costs.. but it wont hurt to calculate the possibility of them. I am 100% sure the organisations will use good lawyers who will counter for everything they can.
3. Is there some way that we can include some statement which ensures transparency on the usage of the Bank guarantee. So that an allegedly illegal organisation isnt controlling it.

These are just my observations after the discussions.

Thanks for your patience, Pablo, through this process. I am not expecting a reply, just explaining my personal situation on this matter

Jon

PS I prepared this post offline and since have seen that David and Margaret have signed up... and we crossed, and good to see that the process was easy.

I think you will find several have signed but not everyone needs to place self justification on an Internet forum. It is more than obvious some of you don't want to join, so don't. Just leave the real work to those who have the balls. This is typical of everything which has gone on in Costa Esuri since 2006.
Some just blah blah blah till the cows come home whereas some actually DO SOMETHING about it. Not everything has to be talked to death on this forum.... a lot actually goes on in the real world.
So many just like to give opinions time and time again on how to proceed, well done on taking all that time and effort. But if you know so much about it and how it SHOULD be done then why has it taken more than five years and until a brilliant young lawyer has completed his extensive education to give his time freely to initiate this course of action. Stop telling your granny how to suck eggs for god's sake. Either join or don't but give us all a break with the lectures,,,,, boring.
And no, this won't lead to any tit for tat 'discussion', it's all too monotonous at this stage. Those who are intelligent enough to make their own minds up given all the available information have done so. They have asked pertinent questions and got whatever answers they personally need to decide to join. If you don't want to or basically don't have the balls for it, then leave it now.. Seriously it is getting tedious.

Lets take a few deep breathes .... and exhale.

Thanks folks.

Can be said louder, but not more clear

Can’t agree Lusitano. Sticking to facts, a small minority of people will join this. Even Pablo only targets 40 people, a small %age of the owners (even taking the non EUC payers into account.) There are clearly genuine reasons why most wont join. Especially considering the strong concerns about the EUC that exist, in the majority IMO.

On 2 occasions in the post you support, the non-joiners (=majority) were referred to has lacking the ‘balls’ to join this (quote.) A criticism about courage.. 2 in fact. One for each? There was also a mention of the ‘intelligence’ (or lack of) of the non-joiners. Wow! After that post even the Moderator stepped in and asked for some calm!

The Esurians I know will never waste money. However they can all ‘take a punt’ of 155Eur for the right reason. They all make tougher (and far more expensive, and intelligent) decisions regularly!

Hmmmm perhaps alienating the majority is not the best marketing pitch... but what do I know! I would counsel you not to mention your support of this 155Euro legal action on your CV! (As an example of a courageous action you have taken, to make positive change!)

Jon

by reading this thread i just wonder how much is this EUC fee per year as i was unable to find it?

Hi, are you sitting down...............its 2 payments of 85,50 per year

that's less what i pay if i fill up my car here in the UK...

thx 4 the reply

In response to the previous comment by 'bitman', I wish I could be as cavalier with my money. Furthermore is the comparison that of 'like with like'? Are there not dissimilarities in terms of: product; personal options of choice and control of expenditure; and choice and control of payment?
Personally my considerations are guided by those of: monetary costs; value for money; and the principles of equality and democracy for all Esurians.
That is why I am supporting the Esuri Class Action as initiated by Pablo.
Margaret.

well i'm NOT supporting the Esuri Class Action

Hi we have a 3 bed appt (duplex) very similar to Mikecol. We pay slightly more twice a year (as well). Your payment should be less as you have a 2 bed.

If you haven't found the bill, then you have the decision to make as to whether you go to the tax office and ask to see if you have any outstanding ones... (and if so, whether you then go on direct debit.)

There is an argument (untested) that if you haven't been sent bills, it could be that you aren't liable to pay any fines, or maybe the bill itself. I don't know the answer, I've paid by DD for years, so too late for me, unless I join the lawsuit (and win, of course).

Jon

In reply to 'bitman', I think I may have misunderstood the content of your earlier brief posting. If apologies are due, I hope you can accept that they are genuinely sent. Margaret.

Fact, whether you receive a bill or not you are liable, as such a list of overdue payments are awaiting at the tributaria.
Fact, the tributaria have been diping their hands into the private bank accounts of debtors with no notice of action having been taken, and are taking back payments.
Fact, if no payments are forthcoming either by choice or by the EUC illegamite and immoral account diping process then the bills are piling up as with any other of the legal fees property owners are obliged to pay.
The difference here is that this fee is illegitimate and has only been 'allowed' to exist because of fear and nieviety.
Support or don't support an action to cease, wholly individual choice.
Either the action will fail and those who supported it will have spent a couple hundred additional euros, individual choice and a small amount when looking at the gravy train of hiked fees and charges already pushed onto CE property owners.
And in that case, everyone, supporters and scoffers, will simply continue paying over the odds to cut the grass and sweep the roads in Costa Esuri.
Or the action will win, on the first level, benefiting both supporters and scoffers by saving property owners money in the future. Or on the second level allowing the supporters of the action to individually leave the illegal entity, as is their individual and democratic right.
And to preempt the scoffer's scaremongering tactics,,,, the grass will still be cut and the roads will be swept and the people of Ayamonte will not come up in arms waging war on Costa Esuri because of higher taxes to pay for their grass cutting and so on. Every property in Ayamonte are obliged to pay IBI, as such ALL properties in Ayamonte are entitled to the equal services. Al.

'Scoffer', 'naivety', 'fear', 'scaremongering' do you really need to criticise the (majority) of people who aren't signing up? They have their reasons, if you don't agree with them - fine it doesn't mean that its their fault, and you hold some sort of intellectual superiority.

You have a LOT of knowledge on the subject, and I respect that. Again, I don't think it aids your case when you put people down, who don't agree with you; as I say not the best 'marketing pitch'.

I'll pause on this a while and let you have the last say.....

Jon

Strewth, don't you people ever go out in the sunshine and maybe try talking to each other over a jug of sangria , you are obviously acquainted .This has become extremely tedious and bitchy. Please try posting something informative and interesting as you seem to have so much time on your hands.
I would love to hear more about the new Jags,staff, menus, prices etc. What about this bus service, is it operating?
Best regards
Kay O ness