Embarrassed by the Brits?
Sep 6th 2011, 8:54 am
#46
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
I still maintain a week on holiday in the Brit ghettos of the CDS hardly warrants becoming a linguist.
And I've heard some of these that claim they speak a language! They sound like Manuel from Fawlty Towers in reverse.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:01 am
#47
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Hope you don't like kebab, sushi, pizza etc, you'll have to brush up on your Turkish, Japanese, Italian etc as well. We'll all be polyglots on this forum.
I still maintain a week on holiday in the Brit ghettos of the CDS hardly warrants becoming a linguist. And I've heard some of these that claim they speak a language! They sound like Manuel from Fawlty Towers in reverse.
I still maintain a week on holiday in the Brit ghettos of the CDS hardly warrants becoming a linguist.
And I've heard some of these that claim they speak a language! They sound like Manuel from Fawlty Towers in reverse.
No, it doesn't. .. the question of what is and what isn't a Brit ghetto is another thread entirely....
.Still maintain a few attempted words, spoken falteringly and maybe even unsuccessfully, is both less ignorant and less arrogant than addressing someone in a foreign language and not merely hoping, but expecting to be understood.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:09 am
#48
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
It's perfectly possible to spend most of your time in British places as if you were back in the UK, but it's also perfectly possible to spend your all your time in Spanish places and rarely come across another Brit
Even most the tourists in summer are Spanish
Sep 6th 2011, 9:15 am
#49
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Yes that is true. In every country there are polite and rude people, nice and not-so-nice people
However, you do get better service if you speak Spanish, if only because you can communicate with that person fully and they can communicate back fully. So you form a relationship.
A lot of the so called grumpiness and bad service is because it is frustrating having to communicate in odd words of Spanish and English and trying to work out what someone wants. This is especially true for the poor receptionists and workers at the town hall and Drs surgeries. Seeing what they have to deal with every day I am not surprised that they are grumpy when they have to deal with another person who cant communicate in Spanish.
I saw a full blown fight in the Drs surgery the other day between an English couple in their 50s because the wife wanted the husband to speak to the receptionist in Spanish, but he wanted her to. They were swearing loudly in English and physically pushing each other. It was a disgrace and one of the times when I am embarrased of British people.
However, you do get better service if you speak Spanish, if only because you can communicate with that person fully and they can communicate back fully. So you form a relationship.
A lot of the so called grumpiness and bad service is because it is frustrating having to communicate in odd words of Spanish and English and trying to work out what someone wants. This is especially true for the poor receptionists and workers at the town hall and Drs surgeries. Seeing what they have to deal with every day I am not surprised that they are grumpy when they have to deal with another person who cant communicate in Spanish.
I saw a full blown fight in the Drs surgery the other day between an English couple in their 50s because the wife wanted the husband to speak to the receptionist in Spanish, but he wanted her to. They were swearing loudly in English and physically pushing each other. It was a disgrace and one of the times when I am embarrased of British people.
I have seen relitives of mine being treated worse by doctors/receptionists and such in Pontevedra, Segoviaetc, than the rudeness shown to Brits on the costas.
There a places in Spain where Spanish is vital, others where it is quite important, and others where it doesnt matter a jot.
And looking at it from a purely practical business viewpoint, I would rather that the staff I employ would use English (if only pub English) to get the order in quick, than to be standing around for ten minutes while a foreigner tries to order in Spanish, and I bet the majority of bar-shop-garage owners would say the same.
And for those who think that the effort to speak Spanish is appreciated by the staff, I think they are a bit mistaken, if it slows them down and makes things more hassle, of course if you asked the staff what they think, they would tell you what you want to hear, ie we are delighted that you try to speak Spanish.
As someone whohas always had a business whereI donthave any contact with the "end user". I count my self lucky.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:19 am
#50
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Look, when I am on my travels in Spain, where there are no tourists,I see more aggro and rudeness between customers and owners than between non Spanish speakers and locals, so how do you explain that.
I have seen relitives of mine being treated worse by doctors/receptionists and such in Pontevedra, Segoviaetc, than the rudeness shown to Brits on the costas.
There a places in Spain where Spanish is vital, others where it is quite important, and others where it doesnt matter a jot.
And looking at it from a purely practical business viewpoint, I would rather that the staff I employ would use English (if only pub English) to get the order in quick, than to be standing around for ten minutes while a foreigner tries to order in Spanish, and I bet the majority of bar-shop-garage owners would say the same.
And for those who think that the effort to speak Spanish is appreciated by the staff, I think they are a bit mistaken, if it slows them down and makes things more hassle, of course if you asked the staff what they think, they would tell you what you want to hear, ie we are delighted that you try to speak Spanish.
As someone whohas always had a business whereI donthave any contact with the "end user". I count my self lucky.
I have seen relitives of mine being treated worse by doctors/receptionists and such in Pontevedra, Segoviaetc, than the rudeness shown to Brits on the costas.
There a places in Spain where Spanish is vital, others where it is quite important, and others where it doesnt matter a jot.
And looking at it from a purely practical business viewpoint, I would rather that the staff I employ would use English (if only pub English) to get the order in quick, than to be standing around for ten minutes while a foreigner tries to order in Spanish, and I bet the majority of bar-shop-garage owners would say the same.
And for those who think that the effort to speak Spanish is appreciated by the staff, I think they are a bit mistaken, if it slows them down and makes things more hassle, of course if you asked the staff what they think, they would tell you what you want to hear, ie we are delighted that you try to speak Spanish.
As someone whohas always had a business whereI donthave any contact with the "end user". I count my self lucky.
Sure, I am going on hearsay. British people I've met here and on these forums, are always talking about bad and rude service in Spain, and I've never had rude service in Spain, ever. I've had very slow, incompetant service, sure, but noone has ever been rude to me.
So I assumed that maybe it is because I speak Spanish
But to be fair, I never had rude service in the UK either, so maybe some people attract rudeness in others.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:25 am
#52
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Sure, I am going on hearsay. British people I've met here and on these forums, are always talking about bad and rude service in Spain, and I've never had rude service in Spain, ever. I've had very slow, incompetant service, sure, but noone has ever been rude to me.
So I assumed that maybe it is because I speak Spanish
But to be fair, I never had rude service in the UK either, so maybe some people attract rudeness in others.
So I assumed that maybe it is because I speak Spanish
But to be fair, I never had rude service in the UK either, so maybe some people attract rudeness in others.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:35 am
#53
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: near Colmenar, Prov de Malaga
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Look, when I am on my travels in Spain, where there are no tourists,I see more aggro and rudeness between customers and owners than between non Spanish speakers and locals, so how do you explain that.
I have seen relitives of mine being treated worse by doctors/receptionists and such in Pontevedra, Segoviaetc, than the rudeness shown to Brits on the costas.
There a places in Spain where Spanish is vital, others where it is quite important, and others where it doesnt matter a jot.
And looking at it from a purely practical business viewpoint, I would rather that the staff I employ would use English (if only pub English) to get the order in quick, than to be standing around for ten minutes while a foreigner tries to order in Spanish, and I bet the majority of bar-shop-garage owners would say the same.
And for those who think that the effort to speak Spanish is appreciated by the staff, I think they are a bit mistaken, if it slows them down and makes things more hassle, of course if you asked the staff what they think, they would tell you what you want to hear, ie we are delighted that you try to speak Spanish.
As someone whohas always had a business whereI donthave any contact with the "end user". I count my self lucky.
I have seen relitives of mine being treated worse by doctors/receptionists and such in Pontevedra, Segoviaetc, than the rudeness shown to Brits on the costas.
There a places in Spain where Spanish is vital, others where it is quite important, and others where it doesnt matter a jot.
And looking at it from a purely practical business viewpoint, I would rather that the staff I employ would use English (if only pub English) to get the order in quick, than to be standing around for ten minutes while a foreigner tries to order in Spanish, and I bet the majority of bar-shop-garage owners would say the same.
And for those who think that the effort to speak Spanish is appreciated by the staff, I think they are a bit mistaken, if it slows them down and makes things more hassle, of course if you asked the staff what they think, they would tell you what you want to hear, ie we are delighted that you try to speak Spanish.
As someone whohas always had a business whereI donthave any contact with the "end user". I count my self lucky.
All valid, none of it however addressing my OP, which was to question anyone's arrogance, ignorance, attitude or any other explanatory word or phrase.... if they at the first point of contact with a person, use their own, rather than the native, language of the country they're in.
As an example. If my child goes to the Centro Salud with asthma I will make every attempt to check out words, phrases, etc., I might have to use/hear when I speak to the receptionist, nurse, doctor, & so on. If we happen to get a doctor who chooses part way through to speak to me in English which is better than my Spanish, will I be so stupid as to persist with my lower-grade Spanish? Will I heck as like. Would I walk into a bar in Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Belgrade or somewhere else beginning with B, and say 'I'll have a beer please'? Not bruddy likely
(on a side note, marida? mujer? esposa? What's the difference? Cos I've never heard marida!)
Sep 6th 2011, 9:40 am
#54
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
My wife's a fluent Spanish speaker who works as an interpreter and I can efficiently deal with most situations, and I maintain that we get better and more polite service because of it, whether in an expat area or in deepest Spain.
My wife was translating in the local Salud yesterday when the Spanish receptionist asked her to speak to an English woman on the phone. The English woman gave my wife her SIP number and asked her to send someone round as soon as possible.
My wife was as flummoxed as the receptionist, until she established that the woman wanted a TV engineer and had phoned the wrong place. When asked for her SIP number, she gave it.
My wife was translating in the local Salud yesterday when the Spanish receptionist asked her to speak to an English woman on the phone. The English woman gave my wife her SIP number and asked her to send someone round as soon as possible.
My wife was as flummoxed as the receptionist, until she established that the woman wanted a TV engineer and had phoned the wrong place. When asked for her SIP number, she gave it.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:43 am
#55
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Would agree... apart from the suggestion that there's anywhere in Spain where Spanish doesn't matter a jot! Rude people are rude regardless of nationality - theirs or the person they're talking to. Ditto polite people. Business people will want tasks carried out as swiftly as possible whilst keeping all concerned happy/busy/whatever. People struggling in a language may well take a bit longer (or a lot longer!).
All valid, none of it however addressing my OP, which was to question anyone's arrogance, ignorance, attitude or any other explanatory word or phrase.... if they at the first point of contact with a person, use their own, rather than the native, language of the country they're in.
As an example. If my child goes to the Centro Salud with asthma I will make every attempt to check out words, phrases, etc., I might have to use/hear when I speak to the receptionist, nurse, doctor, & so on. If we happen to get a doctor who chooses part way through to speak to me in English which is better than my Spanish, will I be so stupid as to persist with my lower-grade Spanish? Will I heck as like. Would I walk into a bar in Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Belgrade or somewhere else beginning with B, and say 'I'll have a beer please'? Not bruddy likely
(on a side note, marida? mujer? esposa? What's the difference? Cos I've never heard marida!)
All valid, none of it however addressing my OP, which was to question anyone's arrogance, ignorance, attitude or any other explanatory word or phrase.... if they at the first point of contact with a person, use their own, rather than the native, language of the country they're in.
As an example. If my child goes to the Centro Salud with asthma I will make every attempt to check out words, phrases, etc., I might have to use/hear when I speak to the receptionist, nurse, doctor, & so on. If we happen to get a doctor who chooses part way through to speak to me in English which is better than my Spanish, will I be so stupid as to persist with my lower-grade Spanish? Will I heck as like. Would I walk into a bar in Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Belgrade or somewhere else beginning with B, and say 'I'll have a beer please'? Not bruddy likely
(on a side note, marida? mujer? esposa? What's the difference? Cos I've never heard marida!)
Sep 6th 2011, 9:45 am
#56
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Come on Bil, the reason why you have received good treatment from all those people,wiaters police etc, is because you have been served by polite people, it has nothing to do with attempting to speak the language.
A polite waiter willtreat Poles, Spanish Englishand all opthers the same way,ie with courtesy, a rude one will not:be they Spanish, speak Spanish or not.
And who is to say that the next guy who delivers wood, will not dump the lot outside and say "not my job to take it inside".
If language was the only issue concerning polite treatment that would mean the the locals would never be trated with anything less than politness, which is a load of bull.
In some of the place I frequent,we are alltreating with the same grumpiness, no matter what language or nationality, that is total acceptance.
A polite waiter willtreat Poles, Spanish Englishand all opthers the same way,ie with courtesy, a rude one will not:be they Spanish, speak Spanish or not.
And who is to say that the next guy who delivers wood, will not dump the lot outside and say "not my job to take it inside".
If language was the only issue concerning polite treatment that would mean the the locals would never be trated with anything less than politness, which is a load of bull.
In some of the place I frequent,we are alltreating with the same grumpiness, no matter what language or nationality, that is total acceptance.
A couple of points. It isn't the wood guy's job to barrow it, and we know that. My wife didn't ask him to. When he realised she was here alone, he insisted on barrowing it for her, with no extra money.
When I went to get my residencia, we got there early, because our neighbour advised us as it got very busy. The place there was pretty well empty tho, and the guy behind the counter was grumpy, surly and unhelpful.
Then I said to him (in Spanish) "I'm going to have words with my neighbour when I get back."
"Oh yeah? Why?"
"Well, she told us by nine O'Clock, there would be a queue halfway down the block."
"No, were're not busy."
"Yeah", I said, "I can see that. Aqui no hay quatro gatos."
At that I got a very odd look, and then he smiled broadly and started chatting. After that moment, he was as nice as pie and helpful with it.
I know how much I hate it when immigrants in the UK can only speak pidgen English after decades in the country. I heard a Spanish friend when we were in a restaurant surrounded by tourists say to me "God, but I'm sick of hearing so much English."
I never said that language " was the only issue concerning polite treatment "
This isn't a case of either/or. When you deal with another human being, several points come into play. In a sense, you are ranked, given points. The more points you score, the better your treatment. Speaking the language, even if it is only the courtesies, scores you points with people, and it can make the difference between good, polite service, and rudeness or indifference.
I rather suspect that when someone comes to Spain with the attitude that the locals are only after the money and don't give a shit about you, they exude an attitude that gets them exactly the service they expect. Perhaps the people who report getting so mauch bad service and grasping attitudes should realise that this might be saying more about them than they realise?
Sep 6th 2011, 9:47 am
#57
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
I am not so bothered about tourists not learning the language, although I am one of those who has always tried to learn a few words at least of the language of the country I am visiting (yes, even Thai).
It does infuriate me, though, that people can live in another country for years and still think they don't need to take the trouble to learn. I do find that the British are the worst offenders in this respect, maybe because English is so widely spoken around the world. However, that doesn't excuse their arrogance, laziness and bad manners, IMO.
I know so many people living near me who have lived here, full time, for much longer than I have and still don't speak enough Spanish to do more than ask for two beers - still accompanied by holding up two fingers, as well! Recently a man we know needed a small welding job done at his house, I wrote down for him what he would need to ask, but he still rang his daughter who lives and works in Barcelona, to get her to ring someone for him and arrange it. He is not old, which is often cited as a reason for people being unable to learn, in fact he is the same age as me, mid '50s. A couple of weeks ago he asked me to go with him to get the ITV on his car done as I speak Spanish - I declined.
Unless people have only just moved here, or are on holiday, I didn't spend a lot of time, effort and money to learn Spanish for the benefit of people who can't be bothered to try.
It does infuriate me, though, that people can live in another country for years and still think they don't need to take the trouble to learn. I do find that the British are the worst offenders in this respect, maybe because English is so widely spoken around the world. However, that doesn't excuse their arrogance, laziness and bad manners, IMO.
I know so many people living near me who have lived here, full time, for much longer than I have and still don't speak enough Spanish to do more than ask for two beers - still accompanied by holding up two fingers, as well! Recently a man we know needed a small welding job done at his house, I wrote down for him what he would need to ask, but he still rang his daughter who lives and works in Barcelona, to get her to ring someone for him and arrange it. He is not old, which is often cited as a reason for people being unable to learn, in fact he is the same age as me, mid '50s. A couple of weeks ago he asked me to go with him to get the ITV on his car done as I speak Spanish - I declined.
Unless people have only just moved here, or are on holiday, I didn't spend a lot of time, effort and money to learn Spanish for the benefit of people who can't be bothered to try.
He's just a bit under-confident and intransigent and that is just a little irritating. At least he doesn't have the "why should I"? attitude. As has been said before, usually the people who don't learn the language do expect immigrants coming to England to learn English before they even come.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:49 am
#58
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
I must assume from this then that I live in a region populated by nice, polite people. Lucky old me. I ought to keep quiet about it in case all the rude people move here.
A couple of points. It isn't the wood guy's job to barrow it, and we know that. My wife didn't ask him to. When he realised she was here alone, he insisted on barrowing it for her, with no extra money.
When I went to get my residencia, we got there early, because our neighbour advised us as it got very busy. The place there was pretty well empty tho, and the guy behind the counter was grumpy, surly and unhelpful.
Then I said to him (in Spanish) "I'm going to have words with my neighbour when I get back."
"Oh yeah? Why?"
"Well, she told us by nine O'Clock, there would be a queue halfway down the block."
"No, were're not busy."
"Yeah", I said, "I can see that. Aqui no hay quatro gatos."
At that I got a very odd look, and then he smiled broadly and started chatting. After that moment, he was as nice as pie and helpful with it.
I know how much I hate it when immigrants in the UK can only speak pidgen English after decades in the country. I heard a Spanish friend when we were in a restaurant surrounded by tourists say to me "God, but I'm sick of hearing so much English."
I never said that language " was the only issue concerning polite treatment "
This isn't a case of either/or. When you deal with another human being, several points come into play. In a sense, you are ranked, given points. The more points you score, the better your treatment. Speaking the language, even if it is only the courtesies, scores you points with people, and it can make the difference between good, polite service, and rudeness or indifference.
I rather suspect that when someone comes to Spain with the attitude that the locals are only after the money and don't give a shit about you, they exude an attitude that gets them exactly the service they expect. Perhaps the people who report getting so mauch bad service and grasping attitudes should realise that this might be saying more about them than they realise?
A couple of points. It isn't the wood guy's job to barrow it, and we know that. My wife didn't ask him to. When he realised she was here alone, he insisted on barrowing it for her, with no extra money.
When I went to get my residencia, we got there early, because our neighbour advised us as it got very busy. The place there was pretty well empty tho, and the guy behind the counter was grumpy, surly and unhelpful.
Then I said to him (in Spanish) "I'm going to have words with my neighbour when I get back."
"Oh yeah? Why?"
"Well, she told us by nine O'Clock, there would be a queue halfway down the block."
"No, were're not busy."
"Yeah", I said, "I can see that. Aqui no hay quatro gatos."
At that I got a very odd look, and then he smiled broadly and started chatting. After that moment, he was as nice as pie and helpful with it.
I know how much I hate it when immigrants in the UK can only speak pidgen English after decades in the country. I heard a Spanish friend when we were in a restaurant surrounded by tourists say to me "God, but I'm sick of hearing so much English."
I never said that language " was the only issue concerning polite treatment "
This isn't a case of either/or. When you deal with another human being, several points come into play. In a sense, you are ranked, given points. The more points you score, the better your treatment. Speaking the language, even if it is only the courtesies, scores you points with people, and it can make the difference between good, polite service, and rudeness or indifference.
I rather suspect that when someone comes to Spain with the attitude that the locals are only after the money and don't give a shit about you, they exude an attitude that gets them exactly the service they expect. Perhaps the people who report getting so mauch bad service and grasping attitudes should realise that this might be saying more about them than they realise?
Spot on. Couldn't agree more.
Sep 6th 2011, 9:52 am
#59
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Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Sure, I am going on hearsay. British people I've met here and on these forums, are always talking about bad and rude service in Spain, and I've never had rude service in Spain, ever. I've had very slow, incompetant service, sure, but noone has ever been rude to me.
So I assumed that maybe it is because I speak Spanish
But to be fair, I never had rude service in the UK either, so maybe some people attract rudeness in others.
So I assumed that maybe it is because I speak Spanish
But to be fair, I never had rude service in the UK either, so maybe some people attract rudeness in others.