Embarrassed by the Brits?
Sep 6th 2011, 6:34 am
#31
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
This is truly funny. I wonder how many posters on here speak even basic Spanish. When I went to Tunisia I picked up the basics like knowing how to say piss off...more essential than a small or large beer. What about the people who choose to take holidays in a different country each year, do they have to study each winter. Some of you are pathetic.
Sep 6th 2011, 6:55 am
#32
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
The way I look at it, it matters not if it was their first or fifty first visit to Spain, Morocco, Hong Kong or Kenya. It matters not that English is one of the four, if not the single, most important languages internationally. It matters not that the couple possibly couldn't have struck up a detailed conversation about the state of the waves that day, or why the N340 is the most dangerous road in S Spain. What matters is making a minute effort to know a very few words when you walk into an establishment (just forget the country for a moment) where the native language is not English. Why being embarrassed by someone seemingly not prepared to do that should make anyone puke, or finding it cringeworthy be regarded as pathetic, I don't know.
My Spanish isn't by my own definition good but I make the effort even in places and with people I know to speak better English than my Spanish. I consider it arrogant and impolite to do any different. Of course pointing has its place - I most certainly don't know the name of every last plumbing accessory in the ferreteria, for example! But I do know an approximation, and how to say 'sorry, it's another thing for which I don't know the name!'
I get that the € is probably what the camarero or his boss care most about, wouldn't any businessman......
I guess my point is that Anytown Spain, or wherever, isn't an international enclave where Fred and Freda Bloggs SHOULD be able to speak English as their first option. Second option, fair enough. But before even attempting 'dos cervezas' (with the attendant, and at that point not unreasonable, hand signals!) ????
Yes, I do think it's incumbent on people travelling 'abroad' to buy a cheap phrase book. One, six, 12 languages.. why not? The alternative would most definitely be that feeling of British superiority, in my humble........
My Spanish isn't by my own definition good but I make the effort even in places and with people I know to speak better English than my Spanish. I consider it arrogant and impolite to do any different. Of course pointing has its place - I most certainly don't know the name of every last plumbing accessory in the ferreteria, for example! But I do know an approximation, and how to say 'sorry, it's another thing for which I don't know the name!'
I get that the € is probably what the camarero or his boss care most about, wouldn't any businessman......
I guess my point is that Anytown Spain, or wherever, isn't an international enclave where Fred and Freda Bloggs SHOULD be able to speak English as their first option. Second option, fair enough. But before even attempting 'dos cervezas' (with the attendant, and at that point not unreasonable, hand signals!) ????
Yes, I do think it's incumbent on people travelling 'abroad' to buy a cheap phrase book. One, six, 12 languages.. why not? The alternative would most definitely be that feeling of British superiority, in my humble........
For that reason, and perhaps some form of historic respect, it would make sense for both Spanish and English speakers to learn some of each others languages, they are the big languages, after all.
But not all of that filters down the line in either mother country and the English masses find it hard to pronounce Cerveza, while none of the Spaniards can even say the English word for their own country, they have to put an E in front of it and romanticise it in that lovely way of theirs, dragging it out to three syllables.
There's also a problem with too much knowledge. I once gave up my seat on a bus to an elderly Spaniard and he said, 'conjo', before sitting down. I knew it didn't mean thank you, because that's 'grassy ass'.
Sep 6th 2011, 7:36 am
#33
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Graham
Sep 6th 2011, 7:38 am
#34
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
The way I look at it, it matters not if it was their first or fifty first visit to Spain, Morocco, Hong Kong or Kenya. It matters not that English is one of the four, if not the single, most important languages internationally. It matters not that the couple possibly couldn't have struck up a detailed conversation about the state of the waves that day, or why the N340 is the most dangerous road in S Spain. What matters is making a minute effort to know a very few words when you walk into an establishment (just forget the country for a moment) where the native language is not English. Why being embarrassed by someone seemingly not prepared to do that should make anyone puke, or finding it cringeworthy be regarded as pathetic, I don't know.
My Spanish isn't by my own definition good but I make the effort even in places and with people I know to speak better English than my Spanish. I consider it arrogant and impolite to do any different. Of course pointing has its place - I most certainly don't know the name of every last plumbing accessory in the ferreteria, for example! But I do know an approximation, and how to say 'sorry, it's another thing for which I don't know the name!'
I get that the € is probably what the camarero or his boss care most about, wouldn't any businessman......
I guess my point is that Anytown Spain, or wherever, isn't an international enclave where Fred and Freda Bloggs SHOULD be able to speak English as their first option. Second option, fair enough. But before even attempting 'dos cervezas' (with the attendant, and at that point not unreasonable, hand signals!) ????
Yes, I do think it's incumbent on people travelling 'abroad' to buy a cheap phrase book. One, six, 12 languages.. why not? The alternative would most definitely be that feeling of British superiority, in my humble........
My Spanish isn't by my own definition good but I make the effort even in places and with people I know to speak better English than my Spanish. I consider it arrogant and impolite to do any different. Of course pointing has its place - I most certainly don't know the name of every last plumbing accessory in the ferreteria, for example! But I do know an approximation, and how to say 'sorry, it's another thing for which I don't know the name!'
I get that the € is probably what the camarero or his boss care most about, wouldn't any businessman......
I guess my point is that Anytown Spain, or wherever, isn't an international enclave where Fred and Freda Bloggs SHOULD be able to speak English as their first option. Second option, fair enough. But before even attempting 'dos cervezas' (with the attendant, and at that point not unreasonable, hand signals!) ????
Yes, I do think it's incumbent on people travelling 'abroad' to buy a cheap phrase book. One, six, 12 languages.. why not? The alternative would most definitely be that feeling of British superiority, in my humble........
Sep 6th 2011, 7:41 am
#35
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
I can remember being told to say SCHOOL and not ESCHOOL over and over again, Idpnt think it worked the because I have been toldby my marida that I still say ESCHOOL.
Sep 6th 2011, 7:45 am
#36
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Spaniards say "Espain" because it is difficult for them to jump straight to the "sp" sound. No Spanish words start with "sp"
How many of you pronounce the double r correctly? I know I don't and most Brits I've heard dont do the j properly either and their vowel sounds arent precise enough. The only way to improve is through practice, not concentrating in class.
Sep 6th 2011, 7:50 am
#37
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Cant believe the amount of bile on here.
So what someone couldnt speak the lingo, why should that bother me or anyone else?
The couple in question were probably tourists and probably were in a touristy area.
Many a time we have decided to take a short break holiday to somewhere and couldnt speak the lingo, we managed OK.
Back in UK for August I hear every language under the sun being used in shops and restaurants. These people always get what they want so whats the big deal?
So what someone couldnt speak the lingo, why should that bother me or anyone else?
The couple in question were probably tourists and probably were in a touristy area.
Many a time we have decided to take a short break holiday to somewhere and couldnt speak the lingo, we managed OK.
Back in UK for August I hear every language under the sun being used in shops and restaurants. These people always get what they want so whats the big deal?
Sep 6th 2011, 7:58 am
#38
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Perhaps I should better have said... What matters is making a minute effort to know a very few words when you walk into an establishment in a country (just forget which country for a moment) where the native language is not English.
Cant believe the amount of bile on here. So what someone couldnt speak the lingo, why should that bother me or anyone else?
The couple in question were probably tourists and probably were in a touristy area.
Many a time we have decided to take a short break holiday to somewhere and couldnt speak the lingo, we managed OK.
Back in UK for August I hear every language under the sun being used in shops and restaurants. These people always get what they want so whats the big deal?
The couple in question were probably tourists and probably were in a touristy area.
Many a time we have decided to take a short break holiday to somewhere and couldnt speak the lingo, we managed OK.
Back in UK for August I hear every language under the sun being used in shops and restaurants. These people always get what they want so whats the big deal?
In the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal. It's not starvation, genocide, WMDs, financial meltdown nor 9/11. It's just something I personally find an embarrassment... and yes I could simply ignore. But this is a discussion forum, no? Oh, and ref tourists/area & 'managing ok' without a word of the lingo, I refer you to my previous post(s) and those of a number of other posters!
Last edited by fionamw; Sep 6th 2011 at 7:59 am. Reason: failing eyesight!
Sep 6th 2011, 8:32 am
#39
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
What, that the Spanish don't give a shit whether you try to learn the language or not?
There are a lot of times that I really wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the posters here.
I take learning the language seriously, learning appropriate phrases (tho sometimes the inappropriate ones are way more useful) and modeling my pronunciation and vocabulary on the local Andaluz model rather than the strict Castillian version.
So far I have always received good service, with pleasant, friendly conversation with shop assistants, police, waiters and so on. The only rude Spaniards I have so far found have been some of the courier drivers, and I can live with that. I get my leg pulled for sounding andaluz, but never in a nasty way, and people always seem to appreciate my efforts. Never once have I been made to feel that the money was the be all and end all.
When my OH was out here on her own, while I was still in the uK, she ordered a load of firewood. The guy who delivered it insisted on wheelbarrowing the full load into the woodshed for her and refused to take the tip she offered as a thank you.
Then again perhaps it's this. I was told once that when you go into a new country or situation like that, you will encounter the type of people that you expect to.
There are a lot of times that I really wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the posters here.
I take learning the language seriously, learning appropriate phrases (tho sometimes the inappropriate ones are way more useful) and modeling my pronunciation and vocabulary on the local Andaluz model rather than the strict Castillian version.
So far I have always received good service, with pleasant, friendly conversation with shop assistants, police, waiters and so on. The only rude Spaniards I have so far found have been some of the courier drivers, and I can live with that. I get my leg pulled for sounding andaluz, but never in a nasty way, and people always seem to appreciate my efforts. Never once have I been made to feel that the money was the be all and end all.
When my OH was out here on her own, while I was still in the uK, she ordered a load of firewood. The guy who delivered it insisted on wheelbarrowing the full load into the woodshed for her and refused to take the tip she offered as a thank you.
Then again perhaps it's this. I was told once that when you go into a new country or situation like that, you will encounter the type of people that you expect to.
A polite waiter willtreat Poles, Spanish Englishand all opthers the same way,ie with courtesy, a rude one will not:be they Spanish, speak Spanish or not.
And who is to say that the next guy who delivers wood, will not dump the lot outside and say "not my job to take it inside".
If language was the only issue concerning polite treatment that would mean the the locals would never be trated with anything less than politness, which is a load of bull.
In some of the place I frequent,we are alltreating with the same grumpiness, no matter what language or nationality, that is total acceptance.
Sep 6th 2011, 8:34 am
#40
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Come on Bil, the reason why you have received good treatment from all those people,wiaters police etc, is because you have been served by polite people, it has nothing to do with attempting to speak the language.
A polite waiter willtreat Poles, Spanish Englishand all opthers the same way,ie with courtesy, a rude one will not:be they Spanish, speak Spanish or not.
And who is to say that the next guy who delivers wood, will not dump the lot outside and say "not my job to take it inside".
If language was the only issue concerning polite treatment that would mean the the locals would never be trated with anything less than politness, which is a load of bull.
In some of the place I frequent,we are alltreating with the same grumpiness, no matter what language or nationality, that is total acceptance.
A polite waiter willtreat Poles, Spanish Englishand all opthers the same way,ie with courtesy, a rude one will not:be they Spanish, speak Spanish or not.
And who is to say that the next guy who delivers wood, will not dump the lot outside and say "not my job to take it inside".
If language was the only issue concerning polite treatment that would mean the the locals would never be trated with anything less than politness, which is a load of bull.
In some of the place I frequent,we are alltreating with the same grumpiness, no matter what language or nationality, that is total acceptance.
True, so true!
Sep 6th 2011, 8:44 am
#41
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
However, you do get better service if you speak Spanish, if only because you can communicate with that person fully and they can communicate back fully. So you form a relationship.
A lot of the so called grumpiness and bad service is because it is frustrating having to communicate in odd words of Spanish and English and trying to work out what someone wants. This is especially true for the poor receptionists and workers at the town hall and Drs surgeries. Seeing what they have to deal with every day I am not surprised that they are grumpy when they have to deal with another person who cant communicate in Spanish.
I saw a full blown fight in the Drs surgery the other day between an English couple in their 50s because the wife wanted the husband to speak to the receptionist in Spanish, but he wanted her to. They were swearing loudly in English and physically pushing each other. It was a disgrace and one of the times when I am embarrased of British people.
Sep 6th 2011, 8:48 am
#42
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
One of the nurses in the hospital decided that she would hardly speak to us (in case we did not understand) but would tell us what she was about to do to my OH in mime. We really looked forward to her being on duty because it gave us some light relief so if she used words instead we were disappointed.
Rosemary
Rosemary
Sep 6th 2011, 8:48 am
#43
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
I am not so bothered about tourists not learning the language, although I am one of those who has always tried to learn a few words at least of the language of the country I am visiting (yes, even Thai).
It does infuriate me, though, that people can live in another country for years and still think they don't need to take the trouble to learn. I do find that the British are the worst offenders in this respect, maybe because English is so widely spoken around the world. However, that doesn't excuse their arrogance, laziness and bad manners, IMO.
I know so many people living near me who have lived here, full time, for much longer than I have and still don't speak enough Spanish to do more than ask for two beers - still accompanied by holding up two fingers, as well! Recently a man we know needed a small welding job done at his house, I wrote down for him what he would need to ask, but he still rang his daughter who lives and works in Barcelona, to get her to ring someone for him and arrange it. He is not old, which is often cited as a reason for people being unable to learn, in fact he is the same age as me, mid '50s. A couple of weeks ago he asked me to go with him to get the ITV on his car done as I speak Spanish - I declined.
Unless people have only just moved here, or are on holiday, I didn't spend a lot of time, effort and money to learn Spanish for the benefit of people who can't be bothered to try.
It does infuriate me, though, that people can live in another country for years and still think they don't need to take the trouble to learn. I do find that the British are the worst offenders in this respect, maybe because English is so widely spoken around the world. However, that doesn't excuse their arrogance, laziness and bad manners, IMO.
I know so many people living near me who have lived here, full time, for much longer than I have and still don't speak enough Spanish to do more than ask for two beers - still accompanied by holding up two fingers, as well! Recently a man we know needed a small welding job done at his house, I wrote down for him what he would need to ask, but he still rang his daughter who lives and works in Barcelona, to get her to ring someone for him and arrange it. He is not old, which is often cited as a reason for people being unable to learn, in fact he is the same age as me, mid '50s. A couple of weeks ago he asked me to go with him to get the ITV on his car done as I speak Spanish - I declined.
Unless people have only just moved here, or are on holiday, I didn't spend a lot of time, effort and money to learn Spanish for the benefit of people who can't be bothered to try.
Sep 6th 2011, 8:51 am
#44
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Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Rosemary
Sep 6th 2011, 8:52 am
#45
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,838
Re: Embarrassed by the Brits?
Wog is never used to describe blacks.
I have many friends who quite happily call themselves wogs "Italian,Maltese and Croatian" they have turned what was most definitely a derogatory name and claimed it as a sort of badge of honer.Personally I still cringe when they say it and would'nt dream of calling them that myself.However the vast majority don't seem to mind and laugh it off as we do being called Poms.