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Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9783624)
I cannot see that the only solution is to go back 150 years and simply survive.
My personal experiences of 100+ hours a week are less than 50 years old. The world now has a population in excess of 7 billion, most of whom are starving or near to it. A lot of these people are seeing how the West lives via TV and internet and they want a slice of it, most will settle for a smaller slice than the average westerner that is why the Chinese and others have moved here. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9783624)
I cannot see that the only solution is to go back 150 years and simply survive.
Make sure the building is well insulated. Then stock it out with mod-cons Then aim to live the way your grandparents did. You will have a big advantage because you will have washing machines, electricity, running water etc. You can do all this for about 100K. Then you'll have a head start for when the people start heading back to the villages which I can see in the next 10 years Spain has a huge natural resource that it has ignored through the boom years. Thousands of wonderful villages surrounded by fertile land. Use the wealth people have built up to move out the cities and back there. The quality of life will be way better than being paid misrable wages in an ugly neighbourhood of the city - and eventually you and your children will be happier I'm seriously thinking about it, as long as I can take my internet ;) |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9783652)
That is not the only solution, but people in the West will have to work a darn sight harder than they do today or the roles will be reversed and the West will end up servants of the East.
My personal experiences of 100+ hours a week are less than 50 years old. The world now has a population in excess of 7 billion, most of whom are starving or near to it. A lot of these people are seeing how the West lives via TV and internet and they want a slice of it, most will settle for a smaller slice than the average westerner that is why the Chinese and others have moved here. OK, let's make sure that everybody's life, everywhere, is sh**. At least the working people. That will certainly help. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
(Post 9783642)
Anyone see on the Spanish news a week or so back the Chinese shop owners demonstrations about their not being allowed to sell alcohol ?
I don't know the details or the reason why this is the case, but they obviously consider that they are not being treated equally or fairly. In view of the already reasonable prices of alcohol in Spain, a price war between Chinese and Spanish would be interesting, though I would have thought that the Spanish, as producers, would surely already have the upper hand with regards to most types of alcoholic drinks. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 9783656)
My advice is to buy a plot of land in Spain, preferrably one whether the weather isnt so harsh and that has fertile land
Make sure the building is well insulated. Then stock it out with mod-cons Then aim to live the way your grandparents did. You will have a big advantage because you will have washing machines, electricity, running water etc. You can do all this for about 100K. Then you'll have a head start for when the people start heading back to the villages which I can see in the next 10 years Spain has a huge natural resource that it has ignored through the boom years. Thousands of wonderful villages surrounded by fertile land. Use the wealth people have built up to move out the cities and back there. The quality of life will be way better than being paid misrable wages in an ugly neighbourhood of the city - and eventually you and your children will be happier I'm seriously thinking about it, as long as I can take my internet ;) So could you please tell me that if you are all living the good life, how will you pay the bills for the intenet, and pay inheritance taxes when the oldies die, and how can the family contribute to the SS to be able to get a penison when they are too old to shovel S**t. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by evamar
(Post 9783663)
Yes, so is my mother's experience.
OK, let's make sure that everybody's life, everywhere, is sh**. At least the working people. That will certainly help. The rest of the world are now catching up and so Western consumption will drop. It may never go back to 2005-7 levels, ever. The reason is because there are not enough natural resources to allow 7 billion humans to have all the mod cons, energy etc. This is it folks, you will never have more money than you used to have. So use what is left to invest in a more self-sufficient lifestyle. Noone is going to pay you thousands of pounds/euros per month anymore for doing work that Chinese or Indians can do for a tenth of the cost. This is a paradigm shift. Change your way of thinking and you'll be fine! |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 9783652)
That is not the only solution, but people in the West will have to work a darn sight harder than they do today or the roles will be reversed and the West will end up servants of the East.
What old tat from China does anyone in the West need? |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by JLFS
(Post 9783674)
So could you please tell me that if you are all living the good life, how will you pay the bills for the intenet, and pay inheritance taxes when the oldies die, and how can the family contribute to the SS to be able to get a penison when they are too old to shovel S**t.
Internet will be OK, the price here will drop and drop. Inheritance taxes arent relevant, you only pay them on the assets that are left - and dont include your main residence. Healthcare will be a big issue, it will get worse. Pensions, well, families need to work together and look after their predecessors. It doesnt cost a lot to have your parents living in the spare room especially if they look after the children :) Anyway, we'll see a move back to extended families, 2-3 person households need more money to hire childcare, cleaners etc which they wont have |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 9783684)
Well yes, that is how our quality of life will decrease
Internet will be OK, the price here will drop and drop. Inheritance taxes arent relevant, you only pay them on the assets that are left - and dont include your main residence. Healthcare will be a big issue, it will get worse. Pensions, well, families need to work together and look after their predecessors. It doesnt cost a lot to have your parents living in the spare room especially if they look after the children :) Anyway, we'll see a move back to extended families, 2-3 person households need more money to hire childcare, cleaners etc which they wont have I am talking about the young, you are advocating a small holding system. 2 people buy what they can for 100k,as you suggest. They work the land andeat well, anysuplus will not be sold to the neighbours because they will be doing the same thing. Taking the suff to market is a differnet ball game, need to be self employed and paying into system (with what money) Land sustains one couple. 2 children are born to couple, They are an expense, (with what money) Land sustains 4 people When kids are old enough they work the land, they marry the neighbours kids. Land sustains 6 people, Each couple have 2 kids. Land sustains 10 people So now we are up to the grand children. Each grandchild marries, but some go to live with in laws, but 2 grandchildren couples remain. they have 2 children each. Land sustains 14 people, by now the mod cons that were bought are just about knackered and need to be replaced.............house needs an extension unless we go the whole hog and have multi couple bedrooms like eskimos or whoever. Now the oldies die, after being looked after by the family, are they going to be buried in the veggie patch, or what as funerals have to be paid for in cash. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by JLFS
(Post 9783709)
I am not talking about looking after the old that will be a minor consideration.
I am talking about the young, you are advocating a small holding system. 2 people buy what they can for 100k,as you suggest. They work the land andeat well, anysuplus will not be sold to the neighbours because they will be doing the same thing. Taking the suff to market is a differnet ball game, need to be self employed and paying into system (with what money) Land sustains one couple. 2 children are born to couple, They are an expense, (with what money) Land sustains 4 people When kids are old enough they work the land, they marry the neighbours kids. Land sustains 6 people, Each couple have 2 kids. Land sustains 10 people So now we are up to the grand children. Each grandchild marries, but some go to live with in laws, but 2 grandchildren couples remain. they have 2 children each. Land sustains 14 people, by now the mod cons that were bought are just about knackered and need to be replaced.............house needs an extension unless we go the whole hog and have multi couple bedrooms like eskimos or whoever. Now the oldies die, after being looked after by the family, are they going to be buried in the veggie patch, or what as funerals have to be paid for in cash. Obviously the first set of land should be able to support an extended family of say, 10. Then as people marry out, then that means new investment/assets. Expecially if your children marry well And as young people move out then you can sell a few cows and buy more land for them if you want to. This is how the system works the world over - and has done for the past 20,000 years. I should add that with negative population growth and limited credit, assets become much much cheaper, so you may find that 10 cows buy you another 2000 square meters of land. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by whitelinen
(Post 9783677)
Really:blink:
What old tat from China does anyone in the West need? The Chinese have been getting into the quality hi-tec market for quite a while now. For instance the have bought out and taken over the highly rated Swedish Motor Industry. They now own both Saab and Volvo and have already begun the process of switching production to China. I would never under estimate them and IMHO it's simply a matter of time before they take over the West, lock stock and barrel. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
They have been doing it for thousands of years, living in dire poverty and many of them starving. Read a bit about life in the spanish campo until about 30 yrs ago. How would the kids "marry well", do you mean "well" as in someone whose family has 12 cows instead of your ten:rofl:
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Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by jackytoo
(Post 9783736)
They have been doing it for thousands of years, living in dire poverty and many of them starving. Read a bit about life in the spanish campo until about 30 yrs ago. How would the kids "marry well", do you mean "well" as in someone whose family has 12 cows instead of your ten:rofl:
There is an inbetween state, based on sustainability and knowledge. Or at least I hope there is! |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 9783717)
It doesnt work like that. Population growth is actually negative in Spain meaning that the land need not have to support more and more people
Obviously the first set of land should be able to support an extended family of say, 10. Then as people marry out, then that means new investment/assets. Expecially if your children marry well And as young people move out then you can sell a few cows and buy more land for them if you want to. This is how the system works the world over - and has done for the past 20,000 years. I should add that with negative population growth and limited credit, assets become much much cheaper, so you may find that 10 cows buy you another 2000 square meters of land. Also the "children marrying well", is as out dated as your "good life" logic. Basically children will become a "commodity" to be sold to an older affluent partner to secure a comfortable life. Most people who had that type of life in the past married for convenience, or for the good of the family coffers. I really think that you are living in cloud cookoo land. |
Re: (Day)light robbery
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
(Post 9783730)
I think you are way behind the times.
The Chinese have been getting into the quality hi-tec market for quite a while now. . All the tat comes from China, but so does the Hi-tech. Simply everything except high quality clothing and cars comes from there Look at your iPhone, computer or digital camera. Almost all are made in China |
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