Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer

Your information about EUC are true. I had just finished my legal appeal. I don´t pay anything. EUC is totally illegality. You could be a good lawyer!!!.

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer

Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

I translate my letter (I wish it´s better than Google!!!)

Maria Dolores, say that she has received a EUC´s bill (174 €) and she ask for information about what it this. She has call to the Council and they say that we have call a lawyer. This is López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. They are managers´EUC. Curiously, I have information that this enterprise that before this company was call López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Sorprise!!. Castillo is the mayor (Antonio J. Rodríguez Castillo) that he´s lawyer. Both enterprise have same adress in Ayamonte and Isla Cristina...

I don´t pay anything. I am going to legal appeal because: don´t exist the acknowledgement of receipt and the Council isn’t authenticated for to ask for the bills.

If somebody want my document, my e-mail adress is: [email protected] (Only you need to write your information)IT´S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SEND THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE 2 DECEMBER. YOU MUST TO GO TO POSTAL SEND WITH A STAMP WHICH IT SEE THE DATE. YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COPIES: ONE IS SEND TO COUNCIL AND OTHER IS YOUR PROOF.

Regards,

Spanish_lawyer


Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

María Dolores, te escribo la carta en español.

Los abogados a los que te dice el Ayuntamiento que llames son López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. Ellos son, los gestores de la Entidad Urbanística de Conservación. Curiosamente, tengo información que demuestra que esa empresa se llamaba antes López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Curioso!. Castillo es el Alcalde de Ayamonte, que es abogado. Ambas empresas tienen la misma dirección en Ayamonte y en Isla Cristina.

No voy a pagar ni céntimo. Yo voy a recurrir por que: no existe acta de recepción de las obras y el Ayuntamiento no está legitimado para pedir el pago de los recibos.

Si alguien quiere ese documente, mi e-mail is: [email protected] (Tú sólo debes poner tus datos)

ES MUY IMPORTE QUE LO ENVÍES ANTES DEL DOS DE DICIEMBRE. TU DEBES IR A CORREOS Y ENVIARLO CON EL SELLO EN EL QUE SE VEA LA FECHA (EN ESPAÑA SE LLAMA CORREO ADMINISTRATIVO). ES NECESARIO QUE VAYAS CON DOS COPIAS: UNA LA ENVÍAS AL AYUNTAMIENTO Y LA OTRA ES LA PRUEBA DE TU RECURSO.

Saludos.




Spanish_lawyer

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer

Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

I translate my letter (I wish it´s better than Google!!!)

Maria Dolores, say that she has received a EUC´s bill (174 €) and she ask for information about what it this. She has call to the Council and they say that we have call a lawyer. This is López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. They are managers´EUC. Curiously, I have information that this enterprise that before this company was call López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Sorprise!!. Castillo is the mayor (Antonio J. Rodríguez Castillo) that he´s lawyer. Both enterprise have same adress in Ayamonte and Isla Cristina...

I don´t pay anything. I am going to legal appeal because: don´t exist the acknowledgement of receipt and the Council isn’t authenticated for to ask for the bills.

If somebody want my document, my e-mail adress is: [email protected] (Only you need to write your information)

IT´S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SEND THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE 2 DECEMBER. YOU MUST TO GO TO POSTAL SEND WITH A STAMP WHICH IT SEE THE DATE. YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COPIES: ONE IS SEND TO COUNCIL AND OTHER IS YOUR PROOF.

Regards,

Spanish_lawyer


Thank so much Mike J for your translation.

María Dolores, te escribo la carta en español.

Los abogados a los que te dice el Ayuntamiento que llames son López, Gutiérrez, Consulting, S,C. Abogados. Ellos son, los gestores de la Entidad Urbanística de Conservación. Curiosamente, tengo información que demuestra que esa empresa se llamaba antes López, Gutiérrez, Castillo, S.C. Curioso!. Castillo es el Alcalde de Ayamonte, que es abogado. Ambas empresas tienen la misma dirección en Ayamonte y en Isla Cristina.

No voy a pagar ni céntimo. Yo voy a recurrir por que: no existe acta de recepción de las obras y el Ayuntamiento no está legitimado para pedir el pago de los recibos.

Si alguien quiere ese documente, mi e-mail is: [email protected] (Tú sólo debes poner tus datos)

ES MUY IMPORTE QUE LO ENVÍES ANTES DEL DOS DE DICIEMBRE. TU DEBES IR A CORREOS Y ENVIARLO CON EL SELLO EN EL QUE SE VEA LA FECHA (EN ESPAÑA SE LLAMA CORREO ADMINISTRATIVO). ES NECESARIO QUE VAYAS CON DOS COPIAS: UNA LA ENVÍAS AL AYUNTAMIENTO Y LA OTRA ES LA PRUEBA DE TU RECURSO.

Saludos.


Spanish_lawyer

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl

Hi Spanish_lawyer and thank you for your input on the forum...

May I ask a couple questions and make some points, please?

1. You are saying that the Mayor is ALSO part of the law firm that represents the EUC (see red above). But the Mayor is the president of the EUC board.... is this really true? I cant believe that this 'conflict of interest' can be possible, especially if there is any financial payment to the law firm for the services they provide. Castillo is a common name - are we really talking about the same person? I even heard that the name 'Castillo' has been removed from the wall and you can see the screw holes! IS this true or just malicious rumour? After all we are talking politics and his opponents may be trying to manipulate.

2. I received my EUC bill yesterday - under Spanish law, how can they send a bill and expect payment in a few days. Isnt there a legal requirement that says we have a certain amount of time to pay? (eg 21 days)

3. Someone told me that in Spain we are expected to pay our regular bills by a certain time - even if we havent received the bill. I understand this for say IBI when everyone knows the dates for payment, and the payments have been going on for years. However with the EUC bill THEY have been nearly a year late in developing the bill - we have had no idea when they were due, (until the recent rumours) and there was no official communication. This is the FIRST bill - surely they need to communcate officially and give enough time to pay?
4. Also surely they need to communicate the payment times for FUTURE bills? What happens when the second bill is due? They cannot depend on rumour and an internet forum, that only some people use, to pass on information.
5 Can you please confirm something about the bill. If they have calculated it wrong, are they required to fix their mistake and pay back any overpayment please?

Lets face it this whole EUC administration is a mess - I have heard from MANY people that they will start an owners association, and the Spanish are well aware of their/our rights. An owners asociation is a legal entity.

I believe that there are many mistakes here in the whole set up, the way they communicate (or not so) and now the mess up with the bill payment and times. I also personally think they may have the coefficients wrong. If it takes months for them to get a list of names and addresses for the bill (when they ALREADY have all this for the IBI) - then how do we know that our coefficient - which is in SIX decimal places - is right? Thats a level of detail that needs far more careful attention than a name and adress!!!

We live in a duplex - the duplexes are all about the same in size and footprint - with a small variation. People, including me, have been billed as follows 113, 130, 170, 300, 300!! How can this be possible???

By poor management - communication - and processes they defeat the object to get the money they need to make a nice development. Already many people are refusing to pay and you are appealing for example.

Like I've said before the 'omens' are not good for us in the future to be ripped off, even though it may not have happened already - this mess only opens the door to it.

I'm paying my bill as I dont have the expertise, language skills or time to fight this - so yes I'm wimping out! The fact is that for many people this is our holiday home, we are busy at home and we want to have fun when we are there - not get into these kinds of fights. Unscrupulous people can take advantage of that and take advantage - especially with the door open. Lets hope that there arent any in this organisation and they are all honest people.
Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by Carol&John

Hello Spanish_lawyer,

Please could you send me a copy of your document via this forum's email facility? As you have now posted more than 4 times on this forum, you are able to communicate via PM or email by clicking on the person's name (to the left of the post & above the avatar). A menu will drop down. Thank you.

I understand the connection you have made with the mayor's name and the name of the law firm hired by the EUC board to carry out administrative duties for the EUC. There were 2 articles in the local newspapers (around 10 days ago) referring to a "querella" or complaint, between the two local political parties, the PP and (the mayor's) PSOE.

"I wish a lawyer would step in and sort it all out."

Regarding the legality of the EUC (the legitimacy of the EUC is another matter, as pointed out by MikeJ - I believe there is a deadline for when the EUC can be registered on the Junta de Andalucia's books?), here is my understanding of it (BTW, I am NOT a lawyer):
1. It's formation is written in the "escritura", but without mention of a time frame, or, I believe, the ayuntamiento receiving it.
2. The 2005 "estatutos" for the proposed EUC of Costa Esuri were ammended shortly before Martinsa-Fadesa went into administration. The EUC could be formed prior to the completion of the urbanisation. My question is: Has anyone seen a copy of the newly formed EUC Costa Esuri constitution?

"Lord, I wish a lawyer would step in and sort it all out."

John&Kath mentioned a good point about paying the EUC fee yet seeking more information about an "Asociacion de vecinos".

MikeJ mentioned another good point about possible defects in the structure of the urbanisation. I know of one other person who has asked this question: Who pays for the fixing? The ayuntamiento? Martinsa Fadesa's 6M promisory note? The EUC Costa Esuri?

A "Catch22" situation indeed. Pay the EUC fee, so as not to incur a penalty, plus the worry of whether or not the ayuntamiento/junta will come after the money? Pay the EUC fee, in order to gain some sort of representation at the AGM (still to be proved) at the end of December?

...And God did answer, "I am a lawyer."

Saludos,
Carol

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl

Hi Spanish_lawyer and thank you for your input on the forum...

May I ask a couple questions and make some points, please?

1. You are saying that the Mayor is ALSO part of the law firm that represents the EUC (see red above). But the Mayor is the president of the EUC board.... is this really true? I cant believe that this 'conflict of interest' can be possible, especially if there is any financial payment to the law firm for the services they provide. Castillo is a common name - are we really talking about the same person? I even heard that the name 'Castillo' has been removed from the wall and you can see the screw holes! IS this true or just malicious rumour? After all we are talking politics and his opponents may be trying to manipulate.

2. I received my EUC bill yesterday - under Spanish law, how can they send a bill and expect payment in a few days. Isnt there a legal requirement that says we have a certain amount of time to pay? (eg 21 days)

3. Someone told me that in Spain we are expected to pay our regular bills by a certain time - even if we havent received the bill. I understand this for say IBI when everyone knows the dates for payment, and the payments have been going on for years. However with the EUC bill THEY have been nearly a year late in developing the bill - we have had no idea when they were due, (until the recent rumours) and there was no official communication. This is the FIRST bill - surely they need to communcate officially and give enough time to pay?

4. Also surely they need to communicate the payment times for FUTURE bills? What happens when the second bill is due? They cannot depend on rumour and an internet forum, that only some people use, to pass on information.

5 Can you please confirm something about the bill. If they have calculated it wrong, are they required to fix their mistake and pay back any overpayment please?

Lets face it this whole EUC administration is a mess - I have heard from MANY people that they will start an owners association, and the Spanish are well aware of their/our rights. An owners asociation is a legal entity.

I believe that there are many mistakes here in the whole set up, the way they communicate (or not so) and now the mess up with the bill payment and times. I also personally think they may have the coefficients wrong. If it takes months for them to get a list of names and addresses for the bill (when they ALREADY have all this for the IBI) - then how do we know that our coefficient - which is in SIX decimal places - is right? Thats a level of detail that needs far more careful attention than a name and adress!!!

We live in a duplex - the duplexes are all about the same in size and footprint - with a small variation. People, including me, have been billed as follows 113, 130, 170, 300, 300!! How can this be possible???

By poor management - communication - and processes they defeat the object to get the money they need to make a nice development. Already many people are refusing to pay and you are appealing for example.

Like I've said before the 'omens' are not good for us in the future to be ripped off, even though it may not have happened already - this mess only opens the door to it.

I'm paying my bill as I dont have the expertise, language skills or time to fight this - so yes I'm wimping out! The fact is that for many people this is our holiday home, we are busy at home and we want to have fun when we are there - not get into these kinds of fights. Unscrupulous people can take advantage of that and take advantage - especially with the door open. Lets hope that there arent any in this organisation and they are all honest people.
Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by MikeJ

I was also going to say that, if the EUC committee is set up for membership voting and not just board voting, then your idea about everyone giving their proxy to Steve could provide us with a pretty impressive block vote. Although we would need to be very careful not to antagonise Spanish owners or we could be seen as a pushy Brit invasion and cause untold resentment.

Originally Posted by John & Kath

Hola Spanish-Lawyer,

I tried to email you at the email address you posted but it did not send so I would be grateful if you would send me the information via the forum email that is within my ID by clicking on John & Kath and choosing email.

Best Regards and a happy Christmas John.

Originally Posted by jdr

That is a bit of a dramatic statement to make on a forum, maybe you should let others into the facts you have found out, or are you just touting for work ?

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl

Hi Spanish_lawyer and thank you for your input on the forum...

May I ask a couple questions and make some points, please?

1. You are saying that the Mayor is ALSO part of the law firm that represents the EUC (see red above). But the Mayor is the president of the EUC board.... is this really true?. YES IT´S TRUE. I cant believe that this 'conflict of interest' can be possible, especially if there is any financial payment to the law firm for the services they provide. Castillo is a common name - are we really talking about the same person? I even heard that the name 'Castillo' has been removed from the wall and you can see the screw holes! IS this true or just malicious rumour? After all we are talking politics and his opponents may be trying to manipulate. CASTILLO ISN´T COMMON SURNAME. THE INFORMATION IS TRUE. YOU MUST TO BELIEVE IT.

2. I received my EUC bill yesterday - under Spanish law, how can they send a bill and expect payment in a few days. Isnt there a legal requirement that says we have a certain amount of time to pay? (eg 21 days). IT´S TOTALLY ILLEGAL, THE BILL AND THE TERM ALSO. I RECOMMEND TO YOU TO APPEAL. IF YOU WRITE TO ME TO MY MAIL, I WILL SEND YOU A MODEL.

3. Someone told me that in Spain we are expected to pay our regular bills by a certain time - even if we havent received the bill. I understand this for say IBI when everyone knows the dates for payment, and the payments have been going on for years. However with the EUC bill THEY have been nearly a year late in developing the bill - we have had no idea when they were due, (until the recent rumours) and there was no official communication. This is the FIRST bill - surely they need to communcate officially and give enough time to pay? THE IBI AND THE CONSERVATION´S EUC ARE TOTALLY DIFERENT. THE IBI YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO PAY.

4. Also surely they need to communicate the payment times for FUTURE bills? What happens when the second bill is due? They cannot depend on rumour and an internet forum, that only some people use, to pass on information. YOU CAN TO APPEAL OR NOT. YOU ARE FREE. YOU CAN TO PAY TOO!!!.

5 Can you please confirm something about the bill. If they have calculated it wrong, are they required to fix their mistake and pay back any overpayment please? YES, IT HAVE A MISTAKE: THIS BILL MUST CALCULATED WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT ARE FINISHED!!!. DO YOU THINK IT?.

Lets face it this whole EUC administration is a mess - I have heard from MANY people that they will start an owners association, and the Spanish are well aware of their/our rights. An owners asociation is a legal entity. I DON´T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. I BELIEVE THAT IT IS NOT A BAD IDEA TO DO AN ASSOCIATION

I believe that there are many mistakes here in the whole set up, the way they communicate (or not so) and now the mess up with the bill payment and times. I also personally think they may have the coefficients wrong. If it takes months for them to get a list of names and addresses for the bill (when they ALREADY have all this for the IBI) - then how do we know that our coefficient - which is in SIX decimal places - is right? Thats a level of detail that needs far more careful attention than a name and adress!!!

We live in a duplex - the duplexes are all about the same in size and footprint - with a small variation. People, including me, have been billed as follows 113, 130, 170, 300, 300!! How can this be possible??? YES, IT´S TOTALLY POSSIBLE. IT´S DEPEND OF YOUR COEFFICIENT

By poor management - communication - and processes they defeat the object to get the money they need to make a nice development. Already many people are refusing to pay and you are appealing for example. IF SOMEONE DOESN´T PAY, I RECOMMED TO APPEAL.

Like I've said before the 'omens' are not good for us in the future to be ripped off, even though it may not have happened already - this mess only opens the door to it.

I'm paying my bill as I dont have the expertise, language skills or time to fight this - so yes I'm wimping out! The fact is that for many people this is our holiday home, we are busy at home and we want to have fun when we are there - not get into these kinds of fights. Unscrupulous people can take advantage of that and take advantage - especially with the door open. Lets hope that there arent any in this organisation and they are all honest people. I UNDERSTAND YOU. I AM EMPATHIC. IF I WRITE IT IS FOR THIS MOTIVE.
Regards
Jon

Originally Posted by John and Lynn

Hi, does anyone have an idea of the amount of these bills, for example a 2 bed apartment?

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer

HAPPY CHRISTMAS

Originally Posted by jdr

That is a bit of a dramatic statement to make on a forum, maybe you should let others into the facts you have found out, or are you just touting for work ?