Originally Posted by Arco-Iris

(A short training course on the use of the bidet is to be recommended – ask the Greeks!)

Originally Posted by Arco-Iris

Yes, do agree with your last para. Un-Expat. Many people are in a bit of a daze when they come looking for property, so for anyone contemplating it, I hope the following will be useful. Apologies in advance as it's long....

There have been so many bits of helpful information on this and other threads about the property situation in Chiclana, that I’ve drawn a few together to try and cover what I think might be the first steps when seeing a property you like.

Ask to see or apply for an Information Note (nota simple informative) in the Registro de la Propiedad. This is just a document saying who the proprietor (propietario) and title owner (titular) of the property are and whether the property is subject to any debts/charges or other incumbrances. There have been instances where unsuspecting buyers have found themselves liable for a mortgage taken out by the previous owner and it was not discharged, thus leaving them liable to pay twice – once to the vendor and then ongoing for the vendor’s mortgage.
Do not be put off by promises of obtaining the nota simple later. Reliable estate agents and trustworthy vendors will either have this or be able to produce it promptly. It is advisable not to enter into a Private Contract and pay a deposit before seeing a nota simple, otherwise the chances are high that the property is illegal.
Pace out the land to check that the size of plot coincides with the vendor’s claims.
Verify that the land where the property is located is classified as suelo urbano (not rustic land but urban land).
Check the Urban Development Plans (planes de desarrollo urbano) of the locality including any future potential developments that may have applied for planning permission.
Check at the Planning Office (Ayuntamiento) for the Urban Clasification (clasificación urbana del suelo) and whether there are any known or intended future developments that may have a bearing on the purchase or on the future value of the applicable land (planes de desarrollo urbano).
Unless you have a personal recommendation about their trustworthiness, be very cautious about using a lawyer or bank recommended by the estate agent. If you think you have no alternative, it’s worth considering hiring an independent interpreter who speaks your language and Spanish fluently.

ELECTRICITY:
Check that there’s a meter outside the property (if it’s inside and inaccessible to Endesa to read every two months, it could be connected illegally). Check also with Endesa that there is an account that could be transferred in your name. If the property is a resale, ask to see the bills (facturas).
There are many properties in the Chiclana area that have been built without planning permission and Endesa have refused an electricity supply.
Beware of several properties on a large plot built by the same builder with only one valid electricity meter. These could have been built on the large site with a previous single dwelling and bona fide electricity supply. Without a certificate of first occupancy, Endesa will not connect all the properties. .
Read www.mycadiz.biz (general forum/electricity) and this forum about the ongoing attempts by many to get connected.
WATER:
If the property is in the campo and unurbanised, the water will most likely be supplied by a well. Run the taps, taste the water – sometimes it is salty, particularly if it’s a seepage well. This is unlikely to change. Check the pressure by observation. The water will invariably be hard, i.e high levels of carbonates and sulphates. This is normal in this area. Some people have water filters installed as there could be build-ups of limescale in washing machines, dishwashers, kettles. It’s possible to buy delcalfying tablets for some appliances. Never assume that the water is drinkable, particularly from a relatively shallow seepage well.
There are instances of wells being dry and unscrupulous vendors filling them from the water tanker and passing them off as productive wells. Apart from checking out with neighbouring property owners whether they have a reliable water supply, I can’t think of any other solution.
SEWERAGE AND GREY WATER:
Most properties in the campo do not have mains sewerage, nor a septic tank, but have a “pozo negro” – a brick-lined hole of varying depths that is supposedly self-draining. However, in real life you will find it is mainly a storage tank and will have to get it emptied regularly. Always check which system applies on the property and ask to see the inspection chamber. Many properties have pozos negros that have no access point, having been concreted over. If you don’t know the access point and later find sewage coming up through your bath and bidet, you’ll have a fine time – like us – ripping up the garden to find the pozo negro and smashing your way in! The use of lavatory paper and other objects into these systems is not to be recommended. Unlike modern sewerage systems, these pozos negros become blocked, adding to the overflows. (A short training course on the use of the bidet is to be recommended – ask the Greeks!)
OK – I think these are the basic precautions to be thinking of when you look at property and good luck to you all out there in your quest.

Originally Posted by poollounger

Yes Iris very informative...useful to have some sound practical advice...
Can you expand on what you did when the sewage began to back up and you smashed your way into the tank ?? I am not sure what I have in situ, but intend to leave it unconcreted until I am certain.

Originally Posted by Arco-Iris

OK, let's get down to the nitty-gritty, eh! Nothing like cr**p to start the week...

First we had a man in to pump out the "tank" (now there's a man who enjoys his job). To avoid getting the man back frequently at 90 euros a go, we put a submersible pump down the hole after building a proper inspection hatch. (Covers are easily obtained from any fontaneria). We created another gravel-filled hole at the bottom of the garden and pump grey water into that. There is no smell and the weeds and plants flourish in abundance in that area!

This all may sound a bit primitive but if you've ever lived in rural areas in UK and had to manage with a cesspit, life here with a pozo negro is no big deal.

The ideal answer, of course, if you've space and dinero, is to have a septic tank installed but at the time of our experience, they weren't to be seen in this area.

Poollounger: pm me if you want more details but meanwhile, try and find your pozo if you don't know exactly where it is. You wouldn't want your pozo contents appearing when you've got a house-full! :scared: And that's the time that most people find out the truth - when you've got the whole family and friends showering, laundering......! LOL

Originally Posted by mitzipurr

Must reply to your final??? post on this subject.

Strange how Chiclana Electric Bikes thread would lead us into all these lengthy discussions about the not so frivolous side of Chiclana.

You are so lucky if you found the right purchase in the right place and I reckon there are many out there who are envious. I do feel though that if you have a house in another place UK for example then when you feel the “urge” so to speak you can go back and forth to suit your mood.

Quite a funny “quip” about the electric meter and I think any of us including myself could easily make light when fortunate enough to have a legal meter and supply of electric. However you have to spare a thought for the many in not so fortunate a position which I am sure you do.

I take my hat off to your fellow forumite who can make light of all her problems and sincerely hope that she can nurture her positivity until her situation changes if it ever does. Unfortunately I am sure that many people who I know have just locked up and gone because they were unable or unwilling to live with such situations and why should they in the 21st Century?

It is very commendable of you only to join this thread in order to help people. However I think to really help then you need to have the experiences that a lot of others have had to be able to do that properly and correctly. I have had a wonderful pm post which I have just replied to and hopefully it will be put onto the forum.

Everybody has their own opinion and yours is quite strong when you state to put everybody in the same light is extreme paranoia. This forum is for anyone to voice their opinions and experiences in the hope of helping people. At the end of the day extreme caution should be exercised in this area.

In the meantime I hope people reading this forum will continue to PM me as they have been doing over these past months and I will offer as much advice and help as I can based on my own experiences.

Originally Posted by poollounger

Was merely relating MY experiences and reaction to the cautionary postings on this forum. My point was that one persons adverse experiences do not qualify them to comment on the property buying experience in Chiclana as a whole, my experience has been quite different ! And I have always acknowledged the misfortune of others. I cannot agree more about being careful, but for every hard luck story I am sure there are many with positive outcomes. Yes I agree that living in England and visiting sporadically is a different ball game altogether, but anyone selling up and moving to a foreign country must surely possess a little pioneering spirit and not expect to replicate procedures which are commonplace in the country of origin ?

Originally Posted by poollounger

Was merely relating MY experiences and reaction to the cautionary postings on this forum. My point was that one persons adverse experiences do not qualify them to comment on the property buying experience in Chiclana as a whole, my experience has been quite different ! And I have always acknowledged the misfortune of others. I cannot agree more about being careful, but for every hard luck story I am sure there are many with positive outcomes. Yes I agree that living in England and visiting sporadically is a different ball game altogether, but anyone selling up and moving to a foreign country must surely possess a little pioneering spirit and not expect to replicate procedures which are commonplace in the country of origin ?

Originally Posted by kevray

Surely the whole point of joining the forum is to read others experiences, and so make fewer mistakes by learning from individuals errors. You may well have bought property with no problems, but even when buying in the UK it is seldom as straight forward as you would expect, and we are spoilt by having some recourse if an estate agent/lawyer/surveyor makes a mistake.
It is from these forums that I have come to learn that its very different in Spain.
When I sold my last house the prospective buyers solicitor was so good she refused to have any documents signed until I had a tree preservation order made on a tree in the front garden, apparently there should have been one since 1956 when the house was built, she picked up that there was no documentel proof. took me ages to get one.

Originally Posted by glynis

Arocs-Iris

Please don't invite me to your party!!!!!!

Originally Posted by mitzipurr

That is what this forum is all about telling others of your experiences. I do not think you have to be qualified to do this?? The people on this forum are intelligent enough to realize that there are very few if any members out there who would post “fairy stories”. You were very fortunate to have a good experience in property buying here but it is a sad fact that I know of many people who were not so lucky. Maybe I mix in the wrong circles but I have not spoke to many people who have not had some problem or another when purchasing property in Chiclana. About your comment on people selling up and coming to Spain. Of course they would have a pioneering spirit as you put it and as far as expecting to replicate the procedures of old blighty I cannot imagine anyone even leaving in the first place if they thought that to be the case!!! If this comment was aimed at me then no I never expected Spain to be the same as the UK. Every country is different and you never go there expecting it to be “Little Britain”. However I have already said visiting is quite different to living somewhere permanently. To finish all I can say is that so long as people contemplating a move keep reading this forum then they will informed and educated which after all is the reason for its existence.

Surely you are not suggesting I am the only person to have had a negative experince buying in Chiclana?

Originally Posted by poollounger

What was the Bond movie quote ?? "Never say never again ?? "
I agree with 90% of your last post!! However I was thinking of a recent TV programme about people about to quit and return to Britain. I know porgrammes focus on a few individuals that slant the message the makers want to convey, but there was a sad elderly couple who had always holidayed in Spain, then eventually moved there. Found they missed thir family... prefectly understandable. What was not was her moaning about how the meat in the shops was all different and how frustrating it was that shops shut in the afternoon !!
Yes the forum is informing and educating. I have NEVER EVER suggested that you were the only person to have a negative experience of buying in Chiclana. My previous posts have related personal knowledge of persons who are trying to cope with legalising their houses and obtaining electricity meters. What I took umbrage at is your insinuation that Chiclana is peopled by fraudulent lawyers, agents and vendors and your inference that they are all out to scam unsuspecting buyers. I always agreed that is possibly true in many cases judging by the light of other forum posters, but also that there are many who are not. You and I have very different experiences of the same agent. We also disagree on the motives behind many of these illegal sales and lack of meters. I agree some may be deliberate misrepresentation, some may merely be people behaving according to custom and practice, and this is no longer working in the time honoured way. I know a Chiclana lawyer who now checks the existence of a meter, who acknowledges that is something he never ever considered doing in the past, as it had not been an issue.
I am starting a new thread....keep a look out !!