Chiclana dream

Old Feb 18th 2006, 3:01 pm
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Default Chiclana dream

Hi everyone

I've just found this site and i think it's great. I was looking at buying in Chiclana with the idea to maybe relocate some day with my family.... Got to talk my husband in to it first...

I have learnt a lot of interesting stuff whilst reading some of your threads, especially the "Electricity" thread which was a tremendous help.

From what i can tell there is a very big problem with illegal properties in the area. :scared: Having read some of the horror stories, i was wondering if any of you guys could recommend some good agents.... Surely there must be some honest ones left....

I'm sure to have a thousand and more questions bit this will do for the time being....

thanks for you help
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by Harley69
Hi everyone

I've just found this site and i think it's great. I was looking at buying in Chiclana with the idea to maybe relocate some day with my family.... Got to talk my husband in to it first...

I have learnt a lot of interesting stuff whilst reading some of your threads, especially the "Electricity" thread which was a tremendous help.

From what i can tell there is a very big problem with illegal properties in the area. :scared: Having read some of the horror stories, i was wondering if any of you guys could recommend some good agents.... Surely there must be some honest ones left....

I'm sure to have a thousand and more questions bit this will do for the time being....

thanks for you help

Hi there is a huge problem with illegal house building in Chiclana which is getting worse as more and more new properties are being built and nothing is being done to stop it by the authorities. Most of these properties have no legal electric meter and at best you would end up sharing with your neighbour. The ideal solution is to purchase an older house. This will have its own meter. Please be careful if anyone promises you once you have signed your purchase contract and paid for the property that Endesa will install a meter within a couple of months. This is not correct and the problem then becomes yours not the builder, seller or agent. Remember also if you have no electricity you will have no water in most cases.

Re Estate Agents if you would like to PM me I know of one person who does not come from Chiclana but operates in this area and can find you a property fully legal so you will not have any problems in the future.
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 7:09 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by mitzipurr
Hi there is a huge problem with illegal house building in Chiclana which is getting worse as more and more new properties are being built and nothing is being done to stop it by the authorities. Most of these properties have no legal electric meter and at best you would end up sharing with your neighbour. The ideal solution is to purchase an older house. This will have its own meter. Please be careful if anyone promises you once you have signed your purchase contract and paid for the property that Endesa will install a meter within a couple of months. This is not correct and the problem then becomes yours not the builder, seller or agent. Remember also if you have no electricity you will have no water in most cases.

Re Estate Agents if you would like to PM me I know of one person who does not come from Chiclana but operates in this area and can find you a property fully legal so you will not have any problems in the future.
I agree with you Mitzipurr, an older property is the best bet. We stipulated this with our estate agent from the outset and that's what we bought, a legal house with legal electricity. The bonus for us was that it's in a Spanish populated barrio.
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 7:16 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by I certainly can understand why you are apprehensive and you are right to be so.
mitzipurr
Hi there is a huge problem with illegal house building in Chiclana which is getting worse as more and more new properties are being built and nothing is being done to stop it by the authorities. Most of these properties have no legal electric meter and at best you would end up sharing with your neighbour. The ideal solution is to purchase an older house. This will have its own meter. Please be careful if anyone promises you once you have signed your purchase contract and paid for the property that Endesa will install a meter within a couple of months. This is not correct and the problem then becomes yours not the builder, seller or agent. Remember also if you have no electricity you will have no water in most cases.

Re Estate Agents if you would like to PM me I know of one person who does not come from Chiclana but operates in this area and can find you a property fully legal so you will not have any problems in the future.

Hello mitzipurr

Thank you for your reply... What you have said is both very interesting and alarming. I can't understand why the authorities don't step in. Surely they know which properties are illegal, so why not put a stop to it...

Well from i I've seen on the TV and from what I've read on various forums it seems that no one can be trusted 100%... Be it estate agents, solicitors etc etc...

That's good to know... Least then we can all go in with our eyes wide open...

So let's say we've viewed a couple of villa's which appear to be illegal. Before we make up our minds to buy and get the solicitors etc involved, could we go to the town hall or where ever and ask whether the properties are above board...? Is there such a department...?

Obviously if this could be done then it would save a lot of heartache and sleepiness nights later on...
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 7:23 pm
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Cool Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by Harley69
Hello mitzipurr

Thank you for your reply... What you have said is both very interesting and alarming. I can't understand why the authorities don't step in. Surely they know which properties are illegal, so why not put a stop to it...

Well from i I've seen on the TV and from what I've read on various forums it seems that no one can be trusted 100%... Be it estate agents, solicitors etc etc...

That's good to know... Least then we can all go in with our eyes wide open...

So let's say we've viewed a couple of villa's which appear to be illegal. Before we make up our minds to buy and get the solicitors etc involved, could we go to the town hall or where ever and ask whether the properties are above board...? Is there such a department...?

Obviously if this could be done then it would save a lot of heartache and sleepiness nights later on...
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by Harley69
Hello mitzipurr

Thank you for your reply... What you have said is both very interesting and alarming. I can't understand why the authorities don't step in. Surely they know which properties are illegal, so why not put a stop to it...

Well from i I've seen on the TV and from what I've read on various forums it seems that no one can be trusted 100%... Be it estate agents, solicitors etc etc...

That's good to know... Least then we can all go in with our eyes wide open...

So let's say we've viewed a couple of villa's which appear to be illegal. Before we make up our minds to buy and get the solicitors etc involved, could we go to the town hall or where ever and ask whether the properties are above board...? Is there such a department...?

Obviously if this could be done then it would save a lot of heartache and sleepiness nights later on...

Hi I think the reason nobody is stopping it is one of corruption in high places. This practice of a handshake and money changing hands is common practice in Spain. For what its worth it is estimated that there are more 500 euro notes floating about in the black economy in Spain than anywhere else in the EEC.

I would personally trust no one and believe nothing you are told. If you see a property you like you can do a number of checks before commiting yourself. If you do a search on this forum you will find all the details you need to do this.

You will find now in Chiclana that building land is getting very scarce since the horizontal division of land was stopped a short time ago. What is now happening builders are buying old fincas up and most of these have big plots of land. They then divide this plot and put new houses on it. I have no idea if this is legal or not. Perhaps another member can answer this point?
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 9:05 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by Harley69
Hello mitzipurr
...
So let's say we've viewed a couple of villa's which appear to be illegal. Before we make up our minds to buy and get the solicitors etc involved, could we go to the town hall or where ever and ask whether the properties are above board...? Is there such a department...?

Obviously if this could be done then it would save a lot of heartache and sleepiness nights later on...
Try checking the Land Registry to see what has been registered (if anything), here https://ovc.catastro.meh.es/CYCBienI...ConsultaBI.htm

Not sure how useful a start the above is for new developments ...

Ask to see copies of any relevant escrituras, both land and buildings from the agents/vendors.
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Old Feb 18th 2006, 9:21 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Wow thanks Unexpat... that's a brilliant site... Will definitely come in handy once I've viewed the properties...

Harley69

Originally Posted by Unexpat
Try checking the Land Registry to see what has been registered (if anything), here https://ovc.catastro.meh.es/CYCBienI...ConsultaBI.htm

Not sure how useful a start the above is for new developments ...

Ask to see copies of any relevant escrituras, both land and buildings from the agents/vendors.
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Old Feb 19th 2006, 9:56 am
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Just heard that there was a meeting at the Town Hall on Friday stating that all houses built by 2004 would be automatically made legal. Any built after that would be clamped down on!!!!!! I tried reading the Diario de Cadiz for yesterday but nothing in it.
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Old Feb 19th 2006, 10:40 am
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Has the horizontal divide been stopped altogether ?? I thought it was merely that the minimum plot size had been increased. I would have thought that if you see a villa you really like and tell the agent that you intend to have it checked out by the town hall you might have an interesting reaction...be curious to know the outcome. There is corruption but I believe a lot of the illegality stems from common practice. Country people owning plots of land. When they needed a house for a member of the family...say a son gets married, they just built him a house somewhere on the site. No one bothered, and the fines if they did were low enough to be more economical than going through the legal processes. If at some point they wanted to sell, then the property was legalised retrospectively, as after 5 years it can stand. Now builders have been using this to supply the insatiable need of expats for houses. Illegal houses can still be legalised retrospectively, even in Chiclana. Get a good lawyer and make sure the initial contract clearly states that if the house cannot be legalised,get a legal meter, or be granted a mortgage then you have a right to withdraw without losing your deposit. And insist that the lawyer checks the meter situation. The scale of the problem has become manifest recently, so most never bothered to check as part of their conveyancing. The advice about buying an older finca is sound but there could be other problems of a different kind. I was shown a finca in an idyllic spot, no elex but grants can be obtained for solar panels. The day I viewed the farmer next door had his generator on full flow and the noise was unbearable! Boundary disputes on older properties are also a possibility. Some have seepage wells as opposed to bore holes, and after last years dry winter many were running low. A caretaker told me he had problems topping up pools, and wells can become salty.
A friend of mine bought from a large agency in Chiclana which arranged his illegal connection. Getting cut off just before Christmas yet again, his builder is reluctant to reconnect illegally as they are now fining people, he couldn't bear the noise of the generator, so has returned to England while he tries to find a solution.
Don't be deterred...wen you are driving into the glorious countryside, basking on the beach in January, and winding down into that loevly manyana lifestyle you will feel it is all wortwhile.
PS Every builder, elex, plumber delivery man has appeared promptly and been efficient,so manyana is not the euphemism for lazy and unreliable that many infer! Arming yourself with a dictionary and even monosyllabic Spanish will win you many friends and get you excellent service.
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Old Feb 19th 2006, 11:46 am
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by poollounger
Has the horizontal divide been stopped altogether ?? I thought it was merely that the minimum plot size had been increased. I would have thought that if you see a villa you really like and tell the agent that you intend to have it checked out by the town hall you might have an interesting reaction...be curious to know the outcome. There is corruption but I believe a lot of the illegality stems from common practice. Country people owning plots of land. When they needed a house for a member of the family...say a son gets married, they just built him a house somewhere on the site. No one bothered, and the fines if they did were low enough to be more economical than going through the legal processes. If at some point they wanted to sell, then the property was legalised retrospectively, as after 5 years it can stand. Now builders have been using this to supply the insatiable need of expats for houses. Illegal houses can still be legalised retrospectively, even in Chiclana. Get a good lawyer and make sure the initial contract clearly states that if the house cannot be legalised,get a legal meter, or be granted a mortgage then you have a right to withdraw without losing your deposit. And insist that the lawyer checks the meter situation. The scale of the problem has become manifest recently, so most never bothered to check as part of their conveyancing. The advice about buying an older finca is sound but there could be other problems of a different kind. I was shown a finca in an idyllic spot, no elex but grants can be obtained for solar panels. The day I viewed the farmer next door had his generator on full flow and the noise was unbearable! Boundary disputes on older properties are also a possibility. Some have seepage wells as opposed to bore holes, and after last years dry winter many were running low. A caretaker told me he had problems topping up pools, and wells can become salty.
A friend of mine bought from a large agency in Chiclana which arranged his illegal connection. Getting cut off just before Christmas yet again, his builder is reluctant to reconnect illegally as they are now fining people, he couldn't bear the noise of the generator, so has returned to England while he tries to find a solution.
Don't be deterred...wen you are driving into the glorious countryside, basking on the beach in January, and winding down into that loevly manyana lifestyle you will feel it is all wortwhile.
PS Every builder, elex, plumber delivery man has appeared promptly and been efficient,so manyana is not the euphemism for lazy and unreliable that many infer! Arming yourself with a dictionary and even monosyllabic Spanish will win you many friends and get you excellent service.
As far as I understand it legal division of land has now been stopped. However with the relevant permission you are allowed to construct one house on one plot. The size of the plot varies from area to area, I understand that in Pago del Humo it is 2000 meters. I do think that telling your agent you would have a house you are interested in checked out by the Town Hall would not worry him/her/them in the slightest. What you should do if you have enough Spanish or if not take an interpreter with you (I know of a good one who is very helpful and you can trust), and visit the Urbanismo with as many details as you can get (this is where they can tell you the exact situation). They have the correct future plan there and can show you exactly where the house you like is situated.
As for common practice for parents to build a house for their own son or daughter is concerned I think this may be a little different from a constructor building something for an unsuspecting buyer who does not realise that he may not have obtained any permission to do so. I too have heard that many Spanish build and dont worry but just pay the fines - but why should an innocent buyer pay a fine for the constructor no matter how small it might be? I think that houses may be legalised in 4/5 years but this would depend on many things and one important factor would be which colour zone it sat on which Urbanismo can tell you. It does make sense what you say to get a good lawyer (wish I knew one in this area) I have seen all of them or at least most!! Yes you could have the thing about the house been legalised into the contract and also about the legal electric meter but I am not certain this would be 100% watertight for you safety. If it were me I would much rather see the official contract from Endesa/
sevilliana for the electricity meter. I am not sure how you could get anyone to promise your house would be legalised in the future again Urbanismo would be best for that one. As for getting a mortgage then this is a good idea, but we all know there are certain banks who will give mortgages out like sweeties and these usually have a very profitable relationship with your agent so I have heard and then there are other banks who are more careful. I only know of one... It is a valid point about getting the Lawyer to check the meter situation but I prefer to go to Endesa myself after all they are the ones supplying the service. If you look at the type of finca you did knowing it had no electricity then at least you knew what to expect. Yes I agree boundary disputes on older properties are sometimes a problem but would recommend if you want to save money pace the plot yourself. Many Spanish do this before even going into the house!! I did not realise people still had steepage wells but I expect this is quite true and take a look to see when you are at the property. Also some areas of Chiclana are well known to have water problems whether they have a seepage well or a bore hole. Yes there are some areas in Chiclana which suffer from salty water - I was taken to a house in one such area and it is simple to do a test for yourself - this one had a pool so it was easy I just dipped my hand into it to see how cold the water was and let it dry. After we left I ran my tongue down the back of my hand and bingo. If there was no pool ask to see the pressure of the water from a tap in the house and put your hand under it. I think it is terrible about your friend I know at least 8 couples who have just had to go back to UK because of the same problems. They just locked up their dream and left it...

Poollounger you do make it all sound so wonderful when you comment about basking in the sun and the manana attitude - but you need to take off the rose-coloureds and see reality.

If people read this forum and take good care then there should be no reason for them not to be able to enjoy other things the area has to offer.

Yes I have to agree it is not often you cannot get a Spanish workman to turn up on time and get the job done. Like all over the world you can have good, bad and lazy workers sometimes you have to find out the hard way and you soon get a list of people to call who you can rely on.
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Old Feb 19th 2006, 11:51 am
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by poollounger
Has the horizontal divide been stopped altogether ?? I thought it was merely that the minimum plot size had been increased. I would have thought that if you see a villa you really like and tell the agent that you intend to have it checked out by the town hall you might have an interesting reaction...be curious to know the outcome. There is corruption but I believe a lot of the illegality stems from common practice. Country people owning plots of land. When they needed a house for a member of the family...say a son gets married, they just built him a house somewhere on the site. No one bothered, and the fines if they did were low enough to be more economical than going through the legal processes. If at some point they wanted to sell, then the property was legalised retrospectively, as after 5 years it can stand. Now builders have been using this to supply the insatiable need of expats for houses. Illegal houses can still be legalised retrospectively, even in Chiclana. Get a good lawyer and make sure the initial contract clearly states that if the house cannot be legalised,get a legal meter, or be granted a mortgage then you have a right to withdraw without losing your deposit. And insist that the lawyer checks the meter situation. The scale of the problem has become manifest recently, so most never bothered to check as part of their conveyancing. The advice about buying an older finca is sound but there could be other problems of a different kind. I was shown a finca in an idyllic spot, no elex but grants can be obtained for solar panels. The day I viewed the farmer next door had his generator on full flow and the noise was unbearable! Boundary disputes on older properties are also a possibility. Some have seepage wells as opposed to bore holes, and after last years dry winter many were running low. A caretaker told me he had problems topping up pools, and wells can become salty.
A friend of mine bought from a large agency in Chiclana which arranged his illegal connection. Getting cut off just before Christmas yet again, his builder is reluctant to reconnect illegally as they are now fining people, he couldn't bear the noise of the generator, so has returned to England while he tries to find a solution.
Don't be deterred...wen you are driving into the glorious countryside, basking on the beach in January, and winding down into that loevly manyana lifestyle you will feel it is all wortwhile.
PS Every builder, elex, plumber delivery man has appeared promptly and been efficient,so manyana is not the euphemism for lazy and unreliable that many infer! Arming yourself with a dictionary and even monosyllabic Spanish will win you many friends and get you excellent service.
PS To my last. In the light of Glynis's post about the meeting at the town hall - I do sincerely hope your house was built before 2004.
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Old Feb 19th 2006, 11:55 am
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by glynis
Just heard that there was a meeting at the Town Hall on Friday stating that all houses built by 2004 would be automatically made legal. Any built after that would be clamped down on!!!!!! I tried reading the Diario de Cadiz for yesterday but nothing in it.
Glynis did you hear if the houses qualifying depended on which colour zone they were built?
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Old Feb 20th 2006, 8:50 am
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Default Re: Chiclana dream

Originally Posted by mitzipurr
PS To my last. In the light of Glynis's post about the meeting at the town hall - I do sincerely hope your house was built before 2004.
If I wore rose tinted specs Mitzi I would have upped and gone to live in Spain by now!! I realise that visiting even for longish periods as I hope to do and living there permanently are very different things. There are many beautiful places in the world that one could live, but I have always felt that considering what one is going to do there is essential. The Med is littered with yachts belonging to people who wanted to escape the rat race but became disillusioned. There is no escape !! Life is a treadmill until the door marked exit, some have a better time of it than others, but even this is comparative. And happiness is not a state of being. It is a comparative state again, more happy, euphoric, sad, less happy. However choosing the environment we live in, if we can do so, affects us enormously,be it the house, the landscape or our partner, and the Spanish way of life and landcape give me a lift whenever I am out there, which I find sad to leave. There are other places that do the same but they are not as accessible.
I have been told my house is legal, now even if it may not have been previously, I rely on the legal persons, have electricity and a meter. And I am damned well going to enjoy it !!!!
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Old Feb 20th 2006, 4:18 pm
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Do not know any more about the "meeting" at the Town Hall, I was hoping someone else might. Our house was built July 2004 so hopefully would be included in the "legalisation" process. And as Dazzle now has a legal meter I am optimistic. Just wish this cold weather would depart. All the winter jumpers have come out of storage again.
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