mitzipurr

Its nearly a dead cert you will be suing. :scared:

dazzle

Why? I know some people have been refused a meter but by no means everyone.

I got one in February and I've heard from others who had successful applications since then.

mitzipurr

I am very glad for you and the others. However I think you will find if you did some research on this subject that a lot more people who have purchased new build property in the Chiclana area are finding it impossible to obtain a meter and contract.

dazzle

Believe me Mitzipurr, I've researched this subject as I was one of the people you mention!

All I'm saying is that some people have obtained meter's since February and therefore it is not the foregone conclusion it was last year that one will be unable to obtain a meter. There is hope.

Douglas jack

Thanks for your reply,I purchased my property in 2002 and looked again at my contract,things have changed a lot since then, solicitors have a duty to protect there clients ,after all we pay there accounts,they work for the purchaser ,Spain is a member of the EU and falls under there laws,Time will tell but the longer we do nothing about this situation the more people will suffer and worry,never realised the situation was so bad,I understand that some people think free electricity is ok, but that is a reflection on the rest of us sorry, but I would rather pay my way and live in peace,meters can be installed legally so my Chiclana solicitor has advised me today,we will now see if he can deliver,thanks again Douglas.

Chiclanagir

Sorry, our solicitor told us a meter was no problem and would be installed within two weeks. That was two years ago and she has washed her hands of the matter. However as I said in the other thread our builder came out last week and took photos and got our bank details etc so perhaps there is hope!

poollounger

Our solicitor admitted that it was something he never used to bother about Glynis, as it had never been an issue previously. Now he always checked. The fault is not the electricity company. As CDL posted a few days ago, Endesa had begun installing temporary meters to alleviate the situation, but have been stopped by the council. The crux of the matter seems to be how one legalises one's house.

CDL Ben

Thought I'd add my two pennies worth to see if I can clarify anything.
Firstly land: There are 3 divisions, segregada (segregated) meaning you own the whole land, it is entirely yours and what the norm is in the UK; divisiòn horizontal (horizontal division) which is where you own an equal 50% share of the whole plot with an immediate neighbour or pro-indiviso (divided land) which is where you own a percentage of the whole, perhaps 10% but there is no clear cut definition (usually) of which 10% is yours. The first two are generally accepted as being OK for building on and are mortgageable, but pro-indiviso land is NO LONGER able to be mortgaged as the risk is too high for the banks. Any properties built on any of these types of land unless they have a licencia de primera occupación (a licence of first occupancy) are illegal as they have been built without the town halls' permission. What they do have (often) is an obra nueva (a new works) permission which states that a building can, has or will exist in the future (a pre-cursor to the building licence) and this is how most houses have been sold by the notary.
A contracted electricity meter is only provided to ANY property on the existence of this licence, unless, one has existed in the past on an old finca on the same plot, or you can make use of the loophole which Endesa are currently doing (but for how long ??)
Endesa WILL NOT provide a meter to anyone (unless they have a licence) if it means they have to upgrade their network at their own cost. Neighbour associations can apply themselves to upgrade the network and then contract meters but this can be costly and needs to be approved by the Town Hall first. Taking pictures of houses and bank details etc is an inherant part of the application process and does not mean you will get a meter as the final decision lies with Endesa.
If you think about it logically, Chiclana is years behind most of the other well developed areas of Spain and if the council can get people to pay for their own electricity network or telephone connections then when the time comes to urbanise the individual areas, this is less money they (the council) have to spend to achieve the same result.
With regards to retrospectively legalising a house, this currently can not be done. It is generally accepted that if a house has existed for 4 years (and this can be faked) then if the council has done nothing about it being illegal in that time it effectively becomes safe from fines, punishment, demolition etc. etc. but it does not make it legal as it still does nt have the licence of first occupation and thus Endesa wil not provide a contracted meter to it.
Some time ago there was talk of the council setting a stake in the ground and legalising (properly) all the houses that existed before a certain date and I guess this will happen when the areas fall in to the urban plan as they can not claim money from central government to urbanise areas that have no houses (if you get my drift) so I think that is not an issue.
A proper electricity supply is the issue and with local elections coming up soon, perhaps all of you who are residents here and find yourselves in an unfortunate position, should vote with your pen.

mitzipurr

Thank you very much CDL for a very informative post. I can only hope now that people on this forum who have purchased properties in Chiclana can now see the light.

poollounger

Yes CDL I concur.. a very informative post. However, can you clarify if the 'obra nueva' is acceptable for meters etc ? I had always assumed that my house was legalised retrospectively, but see now that it is listed as 'obra nueva terminada' which I assume is completed new house. There may also have been an older structure on the site so presume that is how I have a meter etc. It is so useful for others having problems to understand the keywords they need to look for when scrutinising their escrituras.

Douglas jack

Thanks for your reply Glynis,but if my solicitor has knowingly supplied me with an illegal house I will be taking it up with him in ,the strongest possible manner,solicitors have a duty to there clients when they practice in the EU, that is the law,and if they dont know the law they should not be practising,sorry your solicitor mislead you but please dont judge all the same,Douglas

Chiclanagir

Well Good Luck. I don't think that they knowingly mean to sell an illegal house it is more custom and practice which has been going on for years, and years. I have just looked up my paper work and seen the house is described as "Rustica" horizontal division which according to the earlier post is illegal and yet we were given assurance after assurance that everything was in order. I suspect we are not alone here in Chiclana in that respect. I am just hoping that as we are in a yellow zone it will eventually be made legal.

dazzle

I agree with you Glynis and I suspect that between us we've used a variety of Solicitors in the area!

mitzipurr

I wish you the best of luck in my experince Spanish lawyers are answerable to nobody but themselves.

Mourinho

Further urbanisation news , supply of water / sewage facilities planned for Rana Verde area and possibly Marquesado in the next year , this on the back of urbanisation of Bateria Colerado and proposed Veguetas , with the announcement of low cost loans from unicaja in conjunction with council to help residents pay for work seems some effort being made to progress urbanisation after many years of "it will never happen in my lifetime"