mitzipurr

What do you think about this found on todays



www.costadelaluznews.com


CHICLANA

FOREIGNERS GETTING A BAD DEAL
Chiclana’s foreign residents see the town as being lawless, with major town planning problems and a lack of basic services, according to the Partido Socialista de Andalucía, which has held recent meetings with representatives of the foreign community. The political party is demanding that the Council carry out inspections of properties offered for sale by estate agencies, and exercise greater control over the sale of illegal properties. It says most foreigners feel cheated because they have unknowingly bought houses built on land which is not zoned for construction, and have no official electricity connection, but they are still paying Rates for these properties to the town hall. The P.S.A. also suggests that a Foreign Residents Department be set up in Chiclana.


I wonder what certain posters on this forum will now say

bfg69bug

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....


i wonder how they pay their rates to the town hall if they have no official connection? surely it has to be official in order to pay for it ?

mitzipurr

Could it be something to do with the following statement
"Chiclana’s foreign residents see the town as being lawless :scared:

Douglas jack

There seems to be two Chiclana threads running ,it would be helpfull if they ran together as they have so much to offer ,for people who want to be made clear of whats happening ,with regards to properties with electric meter problems ,and illegal properties, and what is happening at the town hall,good to here things are going political, can only hope everything can get sorted out sooner rather than later.We all know why we moved to this area ,and cant understand why the council,the electricity company,and planning department ,are making things so difficult for us ,we all want to pay our dues and live in peace,and not with a constant threat over some of our heads.

David

Many people that have bought in Chiclana wonder how on earth their illegal properties managed to make it through the notary and even get a mortgage.

I'll start at the basics. Land in Spain is classified as rural, urbanizable, or urbano.

Rural land does NOT allow any building to carried out, or to be supplied with electricity unless you are a farmer and can prove that you need electricity to operate the pump for your water well. I suspect this is the loophole they are now trying close.

Urbanizable is land that has been given approval to be urbanised, ie. streets built, lighting, water, sewage etc can legally be incorporated.

Urban is as it says the land has streets, lighting water and all the facilities yo would expect of an urban development.

That's the classifications out of the way. In Chiclana many of the properties were built by property developers on rural land that had been divided by a process of "Por Indiviso". Basically a large plot of land was divided into 500m2 or 1000m2 plots and you bought a share into that large plot. Some with properties already built and some just a plot on which to build your own property.

Properties bought under the Diviso system could legally be registered up until around October 2005, hence the notary registered your purchase of a share of this land and the Registro de la Propiedad registered it in your name. This does not make the property a legal property, it simply states that you own a share of a large plot of land that has subsequently been subdivided. However as I stated at the beginning only properties on urban land can legally be supplied with domestic electricity.

These things should have been made clear to you by your abogado. Good things on the horizon however if the town halls and political parties get involved. It's about time!

poollounger

Cadiz builder just for everyones info can you develop your reply a bit further ?? Can people in Urbanizable areas who have bought on plots divided using the 'horizontal divisions' be entitled to electricity ?? I have a freehold plot, legal electricity and a borehole for water....no street lighting etc on our road but there is on the main road which we feed off...it's the anomalies that confuse people.

Douglas jack

Thanks for your repy,surelly the notarys office new you were not just buying a piece of land for the money that was changing hands and the solicitors certainlly didnt think the purchasers were only buying land,on my street,which doesent have street lighting but does have electricity meters built into the walls of every house,except mine or my neighbours,our meters are in the ground at the front of our houses just outside our boundaries,my neighbour pays the electricity bill and we have a counter meter to pay him our understanding was this would be the case until we were urbanized,as we are on a yellow section on the plan,but could you tell me if I could get my own meter now ,thanks in advance if you can help.

poollounger

Douglas read back the previous threads on this very subject. Nothing is clear cut !!! Not in Chiclana nor anywhere else in Spain it seems. Witness the probs which some of the Costa Esuri folks are having. Without seeming to gloat, we seem to have managed to buy a legal property, which is declared on the escritura which we finally obtained form the bank on our last visit, and have a legal meter, as money is being paid to Endesa via a standing order. It is freehold, ie there is no division of land of any kind. All the houses in the cul de sac seem to have their own meters outside on the wall.
Houses are often legalised retrospectively provided they are not on rural land, though even this is not clear cut, as I recently saw a house on rural land, an old finca, that could have been rebuilt provided it did not extend beyond the existing footprint.
I was discussing this with Spanish friends from Seville who have a house in Barossa. They said that traditionaly it has been a way for municipalities to raise income by re-designating land from rural to urban, both for the fees chargeable, and for the higher council tax equivalents they could then levy.
Maybe the conflict between the need to raise income and the need to restrict development has spiraled out of control ?? Either way it is unfortunate that some people have been misled, intentionally or otherwise. It would be wonderful if someone could post a definitive opinion about the situation on here.

David

Hello Poollounger it's the anomalies you speak about that make answering your question difficult without all of the information.

Division horizontal is carried out by the developer before a Notary, and before the sale of any properties.

If your plot was segregated via "Division Horizontal" and you have your own individual finca registration number, you are on land classed as urban and ready for occupation, you should have been connected directly to mains electricity as this is a minimum requirement for any dwelling to be issued with the "Cedula de Habitabilidad" (Certificate of Habitability).

When we complete any new build we have to hand this certificate over before any of the mains connections can be made to the property.

David

David

Sorry to have been a bit vague in one of my paragraphs. I'm sure the notaries and solicitors knew that you were purchasing a house and land for the money that was changing hands. I was simply trying to explain the process of purchase by division, and how this is no longer accepted by the Registro de la Propiedad.

The best way to check what you bought is to examine your escritua and see what is actually declared on it. It should declare a property of a certain size, the type of property (the usual is finca urbana) a catastral finca registration number, and the size of the plot.

I can't help you with your electricity meter question as each case needs to be looked at and examined individually.

David

Mourinho

Someone may be able to expand on article in paper today , this talks about an agreement between the council and unicaja to offer low cost loans to people to legalize their homes ,

Mourinho

The article says they believe it could be up to 15000 houses and that cost will vary according to square metres up to 30000 euros ?

dazzle

I read that article as being loans to cover the cost of urbanisation which would also of course effectively legalise the houses.

poollounger

It is still confusing....can it be that people who have bought on Urbanisable land, but still awaiting the work which could be several years away have still bought properties that cannot be legal or legalised retrospectively which is a common Spanish practice?? I know when I bought that my agent said that 'indiviso' plots were not acceptable to building societies as there was no clear cut desciption of the actual plot. I believe mine may have been legalised retrospectively, and am curious to know why this cannot be done by others?? Incidentally was just hearing tonight about some programme featuring building in Tuscany, where the owners had to erect a temporary structure to prove that there was a building on the site that they could then get planning permission to demolish to build their new house!!

Douglas jack

Hi poollounger thank you for your reply,have today Sunday contacted my Spainish solicitor,he has advised me that tomorow Monday he will arrange to have a meter fitted in my absense,he says that it will be no problem,I will let everybody no how I get on ,on this site,and if everything goes ok will post the information,if not I will sue his ass.