A cautionary tale.
Apr 24th 2010 | 9:29 am
#16
squeaky clean
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,576
From: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
Re: A cautionary tale.
Surely when she went to Spain she knew she wouldnt get any social assistance, but she went anyway and managed to survive for 20+ years. She's just doing the same in reverse now and should know how to succeed without social assistance?
Jo xx
Jo xx
Apr 24th 2010 | 9:43 am
#18
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 658
From: Home in Herts
Re: A cautionary tale.
But paying into the system is not a requirement for a lot of benefits - just being british is often sufficient.
Although I haven't read the article, did this person have a house or something in Spain? If so she probably fell foul of the rules about the maximum value of assets you're allowed and still claim.
(Obviously, having a house in the UK is exempt, but a house in another country that you're demonstrably not living in, since you've moved back to Briitain? Hmmmm)
Although I haven't read the article, did this person have a house or something in Spain? If so she probably fell foul of the rules about the maximum value of assets you're allowed and still claim.
(Obviously, having a house in the UK is exempt, but a house in another country that you're demonstrably not living in, since you've moved back to Briitain? Hmmmm)
I think that her claim will go through but will take time because the authorities check what assets you have before you're given anything.
Last edited by manamama; Apr 24th 2010 at 9:49 am.
Apr 24th 2010 | 9:48 am
#19
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,753
From: Alicante province
Re: A cautionary tale.
Having lost her house, she went back to the UK because she had no other choice.
Jo, I don’t know much about you, but are you that far removed from the poor woman in the article?
Apr 24th 2010 | 11:28 am
#20
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Re: A cautionary tale.
Sadly, this reply is much the same as the majority of the replies by the Daily Mail readership. Sadly, it’s also a timely reminder that when any of us expats get into trouble in Spain, often through no fault of our own, there will not be much of a welcome for us back in the UK.
I feel sorry for the daughter, brought to Spain at a young age where she had her schooling and worked for most of the time, and her son who was born in Spain.
I’ve witnessed it at close hand, even from my own family, possibly because of jealousy at our supposedly grand lifestyle in the sun, that when trouble strikes, we are not welcome back in our land of birth.
The grandmother in question, obviously a troubled woman, made a mistake in approaching a Tory run council, who don’t know the meaning of compassion, and telling the truth. Telling the truth does not appear to be an option if us expats get into trouble and have to return home.
Luckily there is information available to help us, but not from Matt..
I feel sorry for the daughter, brought to Spain at a young age where she had her schooling and worked for most of the time, and her son who was born in Spain.
I’ve witnessed it at close hand, even from my own family, possibly because of jealousy at our supposedly grand lifestyle in the sun, that when trouble strikes, we are not welcome back in our land of birth.
The grandmother in question, obviously a troubled woman, made a mistake in approaching a Tory run council, who don’t know the meaning of compassion, and telling the truth. Telling the truth does not appear to be an option if us expats get into trouble and have to return home.
Luckily there is information available to help us, but not from Matt..
Who cares? Seriously, who cares?
Apr 25th 2010 | 3:04 am
#21
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 346
From: Valencian Province
Re: A cautionary tale.
I have always understood that returning Brits have had to wait six months before claiming benefits. I don't remember reading that she had paid into the Spanish system although she had worked here. Since no one stamps your passport why did she bother to say that she had been out of the country. My husband has paid his voluntary stamp since he left the UK so as to avoid this poor lady's problem
Apr 25th 2010 | 3:09 am
#22
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,156
From: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Re: A cautionary tale.
I have always understood that returning Brits have had to wait six months before claiming benefits. I don't remember reading that she had paid into the Spanish system although she had worked here. Since no one stamps your passport why did she bother to say that she had been out of the country. My husband has paid his voluntary stamp since he left the UK so as to avoid this poor lady's problem
Last edited by jdr; Apr 25th 2010 at 3:12 am.
Apr 25th 2010 | 3:15 am
#23
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
Re: A cautionary tale.
This beg's the question, of why, if it is the case, did she not pay into the Spanish system ? Someone in the family must have, at some point, so why not claim benefits in Spain ?
If it is the case, that she, or her husband, didn't pay into the system in Spain, and therefore is entitled to nothing, it's her own fault.
Anyway if she has been classified as a "foreigner", she will be entitled to Income Support, as the rules state that: income Support is payable to vulnerable people, who have been in the country less than a year, with no NIC record.
Obviously this isn't verbatim, its what a friend told me who is an adjudicator for the DSS.
As a final note. This should serve as a cautionary tale as the UK benefit system is no where near as generous anymore, as is often made out in these pages.
If it is the case, that she, or her husband, didn't pay into the system in Spain, and therefore is entitled to nothing, it's her own fault.
Anyway if she has been classified as a "foreigner", she will be entitled to Income Support, as the rules state that: income Support is payable to vulnerable people, who have been in the country less than a year, with no NIC record.
Obviously this isn't verbatim, its what a friend told me who is an adjudicator for the DSS.
As a final note. This should serve as a cautionary tale as the UK benefit system is no where near as generous anymore, as is often made out in these pages.
Apr 25th 2010 | 3:39 am
#24
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 346
From: Valencian Province
Re: A cautionary tale.
My husband has paid his stamp for 41 years to the UK to make sure he gets his pension in 5 years time and he has now been told he needn't pay anymore. What extras are you talking about? I'm sure this lady is being well looked after in the UK and is playing her grandson card. However I wish her well she had her dream which went sour and I think the hints of her drinking and smoking are irrelevant .
Apr 25th 2010 | 4:24 am
#25
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,753
From: Alicante province
Re: A cautionary tale.
My surprise on reading the comments to the story in the Mail is at the sheer venom of many people in the UK towards returning expats. I’ve noticed it on other occasions, elsewhere and I’ve heard personal stories about it.
Why should a sane, ordinary person living in the UK show such hatred for a fellow citizen who returns from living abroad? I can understand them complaining about the volume of immigrants in recent years, or the foreign ghettoes in British towns, but this is a British family returning home, albeit with a young boy born in Spain.
The grandmother and daughter are actively seeking jobs and the boy is going to a local school and the only thing they’ve received from the state is temporary accommodation in a grim hostel.
Why this wave of hatred from UK citizens?
Why should a sane, ordinary person living in the UK show such hatred for a fellow citizen who returns from living abroad? I can understand them complaining about the volume of immigrants in recent years, or the foreign ghettoes in British towns, but this is a British family returning home, albeit with a young boy born in Spain.
The grandmother and daughter are actively seeking jobs and the boy is going to a local school and the only thing they’ve received from the state is temporary accommodation in a grim hostel.
Why this wave of hatred from UK citizens?
Apr 25th 2010 | 4:27 am
#26
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 46,302
From: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Re: A cautionary tale.
She has lived in Spain for over 20 years... thats 20 years she hasn't contributed to the NHS etc... yet now the chips are down she wants to use that self same benefit system to help her back on her feet.... I have no trouble saying that I have no sympathy for her. I know plenty of people from all over Europe who work hard and contribute to the UK.... She hasn't for over 20 years.... tough titty.
Apr 25th 2010 | 5:00 am
#27
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 346
From: Valencian Province
Re: A cautionary tale.
My surprise on reading the comments to the story in the Mail is at the sheer venom of many people in the UK towards returning expats. I’ve noticed it on other occasions, elsewhere and I’ve heard personal stories about it.
Why should a sane, ordinary person living in the UK show such hatred for a fellow citizen who returns from living abroad? I can understand them complaining about the volume of immigrants in recent years, or the foreign ghettoes in British towns, but this is a British family returning home, albeit with a young boy born in Spain.
The grandmother and daughter are actively seeking jobs and the boy is going to a local school and the only thing they’ve received from the state is temporary accommodation in a grim hostel.
Why this wave of hatred from UK citizens?
Why should a sane, ordinary person living in the UK show such hatred for a fellow citizen who returns from living abroad? I can understand them complaining about the volume of immigrants in recent years, or the foreign ghettoes in British towns, but this is a British family returning home, albeit with a young boy born in Spain.
The grandmother and daughter are actively seeking jobs and the boy is going to a local school and the only thing they’ve received from the state is temporary accommodation in a grim hostel.
Why this wave of hatred from UK citizens?
I can't understand your surprise at the venom in this lady's case as practically every thread in this forum no matter how innocuous is full of venom and it really shocks me how many sad ,lonely ,bitter and twisted people out there are hiding behind very strange names and use this forum for slanging matches or to put people down. I use to love the BBC forums which were strictly monitored and people used their own names. I enjoy wit and a bit of leg pulling but I'm not into blood sports
Apr 25th 2010 | 5:09 am
#28
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,156
From: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Re: A cautionary tale.
My husband has paid his stamp for 41 years to the UK to make sure he gets his pension in 5 years time and he has now been told he needn't pay anymore. What extras are you talking about? I'm sure this lady is being well looked after in the UK and is playing her grandson card. However I wish her well she had her dream which went sour and I think the hints of her drinking and smoking are irrelevant .
I retired at the wrong time, i was told that you only need 40 years credit and left the UK when I was 60, but if you leave the UK you do not get your free five years credits to make it up to full pension.
It now appears that everybody like your husband who has paid extra have now been stuffed, he would only need 30 years credits to get a full pension now so has overpaid 11 years.
Apr 25th 2010 | 6:31 am
#29
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,753
From: Alicante province
Re: A cautionary tale.
She has lived in Spain for over 20 years... thats 20 years she hasn't contributed to the NHS etc... yet now the chips are down she wants to use that self same benefit system to help her back on her feet.... I have no trouble saying that I have no sympathy for her. I know plenty of people from all over Europe who work hard and contribute to the UK.... She hasn't for over 20 years.... tough titty.
Actually, that seems to be a recurrent theme from the UK, punish people who have had the temerity to live abroad in the sun. It’s worth bearing in mind for the rest of us who have lived abroad for a long time.
If I return to the UK, which I don’t want to happen but it could, I would be entitled to Nada, so I’m going to have to make quite sure that I can survive without encountering the wrath of people like you, not that it bothers me.
I’ve got a small flat left in London and I was thinking of selling it later this year and making a total commitment to Spain. This silly little story and others may make me think again.
Apr 25th 2010 | 6:43 am
#30
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: A cautionary tale.
This seems to be a very touchy subject on this forum.
Things are never so black and white, there are a lot of people who were taken out to the UK by their parents when they were underdage, and they had no choice in the matter.
Of course these children have never paid into the UK system, what happens if they decide as adults to come back. It could be years later, may be the stay to look after ageing partents or whatever.
Should they not be given help, to re establish themselves in their birth country.
It just seems very harsh to me to leave folks floundering with no support.
Things are never so black and white, there are a lot of people who were taken out to the UK by their parents when they were underdage, and they had no choice in the matter.
Of course these children have never paid into the UK system, what happens if they decide as adults to come back. It could be years later, may be the stay to look after ageing partents or whatever.
Should they not be given help, to re establish themselves in their birth country.
It just seems very harsh to me to leave folks floundering with no support.
