Moses2013

What do you think after the protests again yesterday? At the end of the day, you have to agree that people are sick paying for the rest of Spain.

cricketman

It has nothing to do with that

For that reason perhaps London should seek independence from the UK?

Catalan independence is still a hang up from the way they were treated under Franco. Most Catalans would vote for independence if they weren't afraid that they would be ostrocised internationally

If Scotland manage it then I fully expect Catalunya and then the Basque country to follow. And eventually maybe the entire break up of Spain

And as Fred said, why not? Let the people speak

Fredbargate

I support Catalan Independence as I do Scotland and Gibraltar plus any other peoples who desire independence.

Moses2013

Well I wouldn't agree totally that it has nothing to do with that. Of course there's history involved, but all people I know are sick of paying higher taxes. London is just a city and couldn't feed it's population + other areas pay for London and don't get anything in return. London 1,572.00 km2 with a population of 8-9 Million and Catalonia 32,114 km2 with a population of 7.5 Million.

lutonlad

'Letting the people speak' just doesn't fit. According to the EU, centralisation is the only thing that works - because it knows what's best. It uses any dirty trick in the book to discredit any region thinking of Independence - as it has with Scotland.

cricketman

The EU and UN actually favour independence as has been shown with their support for the Ukraine and the Balkland states - for Kosovo for example

The EU doesnt need the old country borders, in fact it would be much stronger if the UK, Spain, France, Germany and Italy broke up into their regions as they once were, allowing the EU to be the only centralising force

The economic argument for Catalunya is a poor one. They have their own history of corrupt politicians and bankrupt ayuntamientos. They can't blame Madrid for any of that. Saying that, Catalunya is very good at propaganda and regularly lies and manipulates its citizens

Moses2013

Racism is a growing issue again and the more independent states we have will encourage it further in my opinion. The idea of independence is great, but many people want it for the wrong reasons.

Fredbargate

The UN has a terrible record on independence.

For years they have been giving a ten year timetable for all colonies / non governing territories to attain independence and after each ten year period failure they then declare that the timetable will be completed in ten more years.

Gibraltar has been asking the UN for independence for over 50 years now under this timetable.

Below is a list of Non-Self-Governing Territories as of this year, not including Scotland, Catalonia etc.

Moses2013

No list?

Fredbargate

Sorry senior moment

The United Nations and Decolonization - Committee of 24 - Non-Self-Governing Territories

lutonlad

Unbelievable.

The EU only encourages 'Independence' if it fits in with it's expansionist objectives. Ukraine to name one.
Whatever the economic arguments, people should have a right to fully govern their own region if that is what they wish.

As for 'Catalunya is very good at propaganda and regularly lies and manipulates its citizens' - sounds much like any government.

cricketman

I agree

I support Catalan independence if that is what the people want. It is just a shame that Catalan politics, Catalan language and the re-writing of Catalan history books have manipulated the people based on a load of lies. The lies weren't needed

As for the EU, if they came out and said unequivicably that Scotland and Catalunya would be able to become part of the EU (pending a member vote) then that would almost guarentee the UK and Spain breaking up. But they can't say that because they are under pressure from the UK and Spain not to say it

rspltd

If Scotland were to join the EU they would have to adopt the Euro with all the problems that would bring.

chopera

Well put. If they want it let 'em have it, but the nationalists aren't doing themselves any favours by the way they are going about it, and it'll make any eventual split worse.

cricketman

No they wouldn't. Is that what the Tories are saying now?