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Bye, Amy.

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Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:27 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
Or are we confusing correlation with causation? A lot of really talented artists become famous at an early age. They are then exposed to wealth, parties, access to as many unhealthy substances as they want... There's a saying stating that "youth is wasted on the youth". I can't sit here and give a lecture on Amy Winehouse, or any rock star who goes off the rails. If I'd had had the money and the fame at that age, I doubt I'd have coped well either.
Yes I think that is the case with many artists etc, question is what drives the young kids on sink estates to get involved in drugs?
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:31 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by bobd22
Domino I am glad you said that as my view as well. I am not saying that alcohol addiction is easy because it's not and yes it can kill. Have you seen the affects of heroin? they are both killers but I will say my point again there are millions of people use alcohol without becoming addicted no doubt many on here enjoy a cervaza or glass of wine and no doubt sometimes have a bit too much, result bad head and often making a fool of yourself. Unfortunately some become addicted. Heroin is a totally addictive drug once taken without specialist help you are addicted. I do not believe that you think taking heroin is recreational or anything but addictive.
in the majority of cases with heroin addiction - which is easier to acquire than alcohol, which is more insiduous and takes longer to reach the addiction stage - as has yet to be proven in this instance, the only result is DEATH.
With alcohol there is a potential for life afterwards, restricted, stomach clenching, fearsome but still a life.
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:32 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Do you not believe in the 'addictive personality' ... it is a small step from alcohol or nicotine addiction to drugs... specialist help is required to deal with the mental attitudes as well as the physical dependence
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:32 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by bobd22
Yes I think that is the case with many artists etc, question is what drives the young kids on sink estates to get involved in drugs?
boredom, peer pressure, because it is there ??
you name it and that is the reason
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:34 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by Domino
boredom, peer pressure, because it is there ??
you name it and that is the reason
and remember that the trick is to get them hooked at a low price before the craving starts and then ramping up the price along with restricting its availability
Tesco could learn alot from drugs dealers methinks

 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:36 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by noelrosie
Do you not believe in the 'addictive personality' ... it is a small step from alcohol or nicotine addiction to drugs... specialist help is required to deal with the mental attitudes as well as the physical dependence
i believe the route from nicotine to heroin is shorter than from alcohol
as to addictive personality - that is something that is more difficult to define, many people who you would say did not have that streak become addicted.
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:37 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by bil
Are you sure? I don't. More people die from aspirin than ecstasy
Not to mention alcohol! Jeez, how many people are affected by that a year eh?
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:38 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
Or are we confusing correlation with causation? A lot of really talented artists become famous at an early age. They are then exposed to wealth, parties, access to as many unhealthy substances as they want... There's a saying stating that "youth is wasted on the youth". I can't sit here and give a lecture on Amy Winehouse, or any rock star who goes off the rails. If I'd had had the money and the fame at that age, I doubt I'd have coped well either.
I agree with that. Our geniuses produce creations that lift them far above us ordinary folk. Do they need extraordinary stimuli to climb to those heights? A lot of evidence points that way.

Six out of the last seven American winners of the Nobel prize for literature were alcoholics. Could the Beatles ever have written some of their songs without dope? Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds comes to mind.

A certain cigar smoking politician wrote and spoke some memorable words, and got rid of his black dog with fine brandy. Or maybe that's how the black dog appeared in the first place?
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 7:39 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by Domino
in the majority of cases with heroin addiction - which is easier to acquire than alcohol, which is more insiduous and takes longer to reach the addiction stage - as has yet to be proven in this instance, the only result is DEATH.
.
Heroin addicts never give up? I think you have that one wrong. It's alcoholics that have the worse problems. A friend of mine was a copper, saw a lot of heroin addicts going thru cold turkey and reckoned it was over hyped.
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 8:04 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by bil
Heroin addicts never give up? I think you have that one wrong. It's alcoholics that have the worse problems. A friend of mine was a copper, saw a lot of heroin addicts going thru cold turkey and reckoned it was over hyped.
Sorry but I have to disagree I have been in the same line of work as your mate working in the inner city areas in Northern England and to say it's over done I'm afraid is utter garbage to put it politely, I afraid I've recovered too many dead bodies from hovels with the needles tin foil and soiled spoons beside them, to share yours or your mates view. I have also dealt with the families of these kids who have nothing and I mean nothing left in their houses as a result of these kids stealing from them to feed their habit. I have my opinion based on what I've seen in my life you have yours we will just have to agree to differ I'm afraid.
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 8:43 am
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Aside from all you experts who have worked with these kids
Why does someone who has 10 million in the bank and celebrity status get more sympathy than a person from a sink estate who has sunk to gutter level Drugs seem to be glamourised yet anyone puffing on a fag is demonised WTF is that??
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 9:30 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Aside from all you experts who have worked with these kids
Why does someone who has 10 million in the bank and celebrity status get more sympathy than a person from a sink estate who has sunk to gutter level Drugs seem to be glamourised yet anyone puffing on a fag is demonised WTF is that??
Its the other side of the same coin as far as I am concerned.... Its an addiction for weak people.
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 9:34 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Aside from all you experts who have worked with these kids
Why does someone who has 10 million in the bank and celebrity status get more sympathy than a person from a sink estate who has sunk to gutter level Drugs seem to be glamourised yet anyone puffing on a fag is demonised WTF is that??
As I wrote earlier it is immaterial what you do d all that counts is that you are famous. A youngster steals from a shop and is a hard nosed criminal, a celeb does it, oh it must have been an oversight.
You and I fiddle expenses we are lucky if we only get the sack, an MP does it and suddenly it becomes an accounting error.
Makes me very angry and in the end if death is involved it is the family that suffer.

Graham
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 8:48 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Aside from all you experts who have worked with these kids
Why does someone who has 10 million in the bank and celebrity status get more sympathy than a person from a sink estate who has sunk to gutter level Drugs seem to be glamourised yet anyone puffing on a fag is demonised WTF is that??
I suppose if we look at someone like Amy, she did something with her life (short, I agree), she had talent and she gave a lot of people pleasure. So when she dies, I'm sorry.

The sinkhole estate pikey whose idea of a job is to steal something and whose whole life is dedicated to getting something for nothing....Oddly, I find it hard to dredge up a whole lot of sympathy.
 
Old Jul 24th 2011 | 9:05 pm
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Default Re: Bye, Amy.

Yes good point. I just find it incredible when I see all these people outside her house weeping and wailing, even to the point of leaving bottles of vodka and cigs with the flowers. Has the world gone mad
 


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