Bull Fighting
Jul 4th 2009, 11:35 am
#1
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Bull Fighting
Enough sentimental bull about bullfighting
Does Ricky Gervais not realise that the animals speared in a ring have a far better life than those bred for hamburgers
A bull bred to fight lives wild on the range, in the herd, untouched by man, eating what it wants, getting laid occasionally, until, when it is 5 or 6 years old, it is rounded up and taken to town to fight and die. The Spanish will say, “to fulfil its destiny”, but let’s not get silly.
You who are so quick to anthropomorphise the bull and weepily to share its pain, try reversing the process. Imagine not that the bull is a man, but that you are the bull. Imagine that you are given the choice between living to, say, 35 years of age, mostly in a shed, in massive single-sex groups, feeding on silage (prison is a fair comparison) and then queuing with your mates to die at the hand of a shaven-headed thug with a bolt gun . . .
Or then again, imagine living free in thousands of acres of land, eating whatever you want, shagging who you like, and then, when you are perhaps 70, being asked to fight to the death against a Spaniard in pink tights.
someones reply to the above
Bullfighters are wannabe men making everyone believe they are courageous. The truth is, bullfighting is not a fair fight. The bulls' horns are filed and they are drugged (making them disoriented) before entering the ring. I live in Spain and bullfighting is the shame of this country.
Juliw, Valencia, Spain
Does Ricky Gervais not realise that the animals speared in a ring have a far better life than those bred for hamburgers
A bull bred to fight lives wild on the range, in the herd, untouched by man, eating what it wants, getting laid occasionally, until, when it is 5 or 6 years old, it is rounded up and taken to town to fight and die. The Spanish will say, “to fulfil its destiny”, but let’s not get silly.
You who are so quick to anthropomorphise the bull and weepily to share its pain, try reversing the process. Imagine not that the bull is a man, but that you are the bull. Imagine that you are given the choice between living to, say, 35 years of age, mostly in a shed, in massive single-sex groups, feeding on silage (prison is a fair comparison) and then queuing with your mates to die at the hand of a shaven-headed thug with a bolt gun . . .
Or then again, imagine living free in thousands of acres of land, eating whatever you want, shagging who you like, and then, when you are perhaps 70, being asked to fight to the death against a Spaniard in pink tights.
someones reply to the above
Bullfighters are wannabe men making everyone believe they are courageous. The truth is, bullfighting is not a fair fight. The bulls' horns are filed and they are drugged (making them disoriented) before entering the ring. I live in Spain and bullfighting is the shame of this country.
Juliw, Valencia, Spain
Last edited by wilki; Jul 4th 2009 at 11:46 am. Reason: spelling
Jul 4th 2009, 11:43 am
#2
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Re: Bull Fighting
Enough sentimental bull about bullfighting
Does Ricky Gervais not realise that the animals speared in a ring have a far better life than those bred for hamburgers
A bull bred to fight lives wild on the range, in the herd, untouched by man, eating what it wants, getting laid occasionally, until, when it is 5 or 6 years old, it is rounded up and taken to town to fight and die. The Spanish will say, “to fulfil its destiny”, but let’s not get silly.
You who are so quick to anthropomorphise the bull and weepily to share its pain, try reversing the process. Imagine not that the bull is a man, but that you are the bull. Imagine that you are given the choice between living to, say, 35 years of age, mostly in a shed, in massive single-sex groups, feeding on silage (prison is a fair comparison) and then queuing with your mates to die at the hand of a shaven-headed thug with a bolt gun . . .
Or then again, imagine living free in thousands of acres of land, eating whatever you want, shagging who you like, and then, when you are perhaps 70, being asked to fight to the death against a Spaniard in pink tights.
someones reply to the above
Bullfighters are wannabe men making everyone believe they are courageous. The truth is, bullfighting is not a fair fight. The bulls' horns are filed and they are drugged (making them disoriented) before entering the ring. I live in Spain and bullfighting is the shame of this country.
Juliw, Valencia, Spain
Does Ricky Gervais not realise that the animals speared in a ring have a far better life than those bred for hamburgers
A bull bred to fight lives wild on the range, in the herd, untouched by man, eating what it wants, getting laid occasionally, until, when it is 5 or 6 years old, it is rounded up and taken to town to fight and die. The Spanish will say, “to fulfil its destiny”, but let’s not get silly.
You who are so quick to anthropomorphise the bull and weepily to share its pain, try reversing the process. Imagine not that the bull is a man, but that you are the bull. Imagine that you are given the choice between living to, say, 35 years of age, mostly in a shed, in massive single-sex groups, feeding on silage (prison is a fair comparison) and then queuing with your mates to die at the hand of a shaven-headed thug with a bolt gun . . .
Or then again, imagine living free in thousands of acres of land, eating whatever you want, shagging who you like, and then, when you are perhaps 70, being asked to fight to the death against a Spaniard in pink tights.
someones reply to the above
Bullfighters are wannabe men making everyone believe they are courageous. The truth is, bullfighting is not a fair fight. The bulls' horns are filed and they are drugged (making them disoriented) before entering the ring. I live in Spain and bullfighting is the shame of this country.
Juliw, Valencia, Spain
I have an interesting situation as my OH's family are bullfighters, whereas I am an animal lover. For the most part I just try not to talk about bullfighting to maintain the peace.
Why do you mention Ricky Gervais? Where does he fit into this?
Last edited by Veleta; Jul 4th 2009 at 11:45 am. Reason: To ask a question
Jul 4th 2009, 11:47 am
#3
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Re: Bull Fighting
Hi
apparently down my way they are trying bull fighting that does not involve killing the Bull. It starts later today but I have a prior appointment.
Also I have heard the Portugese don't kill their bulls
Davexf
apparently down my way they are trying bull fighting that does not involve killing the Bull. It starts later today but I have a prior appointment.
Also I have heard the Portugese don't kill their bulls
Davexf
Jul 4th 2009, 11:49 am
#4
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Re: Bull Fighting
He has spoken out against bull fighting and it was in the times,
your Oh family are bull fighters and your a animal lover, that must make things interesting at the dinner table.
your Oh family are bull fighters and your a animal lover, that must make things interesting at the dinner table.
Jul 4th 2009, 11:52 am
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Re: Bull Fighting
Well, like I said I just don't talk about it with his family. OH knows I don't really like it but the rest of his family have no idea. If I told them I don't really approve I can just imagine how their opinion of me would change quite dramatically. Some things are just best left alone.
Jul 4th 2009, 12:00 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
i dont like bull fighting at all, i think there shouldnt be a festival with the suffering of an animal. When i talk to someone who likes this kind of fiestas they always argue things like this "the bulls have a better life when are going to be in a ring" or something like "they dont feel any pain due to they are ferocious" or something similar.
I hate when people call this kind of fiesta like "fiesta nacional". I dont like it and a lot of people that i know hate it also, so, i dont like when someone connects Spain with it, it makes me be ashamed.
Anyway, i think that discussing about this with people who like it its a waste of time, you never get an agreement
I hate when people call this kind of fiesta like "fiesta nacional". I dont like it and a lot of people that i know hate it also, so, i dont like when someone connects Spain with it, it makes me be ashamed.
Anyway, i think that discussing about this with people who like it its a waste of time, you never get an agreement
Jul 4th 2009, 12:08 pm
#7
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Re: Bull Fighting
and what about the hypocrite people that go to see a bullfight and when the bull is being killed cover their eyes? or these people that when a bull hurts a horse are very worry about him but not about the bull? i cant understand, really 
Jul 4th 2009, 12:53 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
The younger spanish I have spoken to, dont really have time for it, so its the older generation, so I think it will die out.
Jul 4th 2009, 1:38 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
As marisol says, "Anyway, i think that discussing about this with people who like it its a waste of time, you never get an agreement".
I guess that I should come out as someone who has enjoyed bullfighting. Rather like those games of Roman yore, there is a certain degree of "mob" hysteria which one cannot but help (allowing oneself) getting caught up in. When I lived in Barcelona, a large group of us would bring sandwiches and wine, and make a pleasant afternoon of it. (Yes, yes...not so pleasant for the bull!).
I don't regard myself as some sort of Alpha++ guy, but there is a certain "rush" experienced when the bull first appears. The bull is not regarded as a "victim" but as an adversary. And the sight of blood is not such a bad thing in this age of total sanitation. I was raised on a farm, where death was all part and parcel of the process. These days, if one sees any blood in the pre-packed Sunday joint on the shelf at M&S, one recoils and puts it back.
And all this talk of "fairness" (or lack of) is foolish. It is a man vs a bull. How exactly can one make match up such mis-matched inequality. Much better to concentrate energies on real (human) suffering. One day bullfighting will surely be a thing of the past. I shall not miss it. But as it's legal, I like to see and I want to feel.
I also enjoy pulling fish from the water with a hook through the lip. The shock of being airborne must be the inverse of "water-boarding" for us. Horribly cruel. And so unfair.
And talking of animal cruelty, on a distantly related note, I see that in 2007, dogs sent 368,000 persons to emergency rooms in the US, with 44,000 being facial injuries. 33 persons were mauled to death, with 17 being children.
I guess that I should come out as someone who has enjoyed bullfighting. Rather like those games of Roman yore, there is a certain degree of "mob" hysteria which one cannot but help (allowing oneself) getting caught up in. When I lived in Barcelona, a large group of us would bring sandwiches and wine, and make a pleasant afternoon of it. (Yes, yes...not so pleasant for the bull!).
I don't regard myself as some sort of Alpha++ guy, but there is a certain "rush" experienced when the bull first appears. The bull is not regarded as a "victim" but as an adversary. And the sight of blood is not such a bad thing in this age of total sanitation. I was raised on a farm, where death was all part and parcel of the process. These days, if one sees any blood in the pre-packed Sunday joint on the shelf at M&S, one recoils and puts it back.
And all this talk of "fairness" (or lack of) is foolish. It is a man vs a bull. How exactly can one make match up such mis-matched inequality. Much better to concentrate energies on real (human) suffering. One day bullfighting will surely be a thing of the past. I shall not miss it. But as it's legal, I like to see and I want to feel.
I also enjoy pulling fish from the water with a hook through the lip. The shock of being airborne must be the inverse of "water-boarding" for us. Horribly cruel. And so unfair.
And talking of animal cruelty, on a distantly related note, I see that in 2007, dogs sent 368,000 persons to emergency rooms in the US, with 44,000 being facial injuries. 33 persons were mauled to death, with 17 being children.
Jul 4th 2009, 3:03 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
As marisol says, "Anyway, i think that discussing about this with people who like it its a waste of time, you never get an agreement".
I guess that I should come out as someone who has enjoyed bullfighting. Rather like those games of Roman yore, there is a certain degree of "mob" hysteria which one cannot but help (allowing oneself) getting caught up in. When I lived in Barcelona, a large group of us would bring sandwiches and wine, and make a pleasant afternoon of it. (Yes, yes...not so pleasant for the bull!).
I don't regard myself as some sort of Alpha++ guy, but there is a certain "rush" experienced when the bull first appears. The bull is not regarded as a "victim" but as an adversary. And the sight of blood is not such a bad thing in this age of total sanitation. I was raised on a farm, where death was all part and parcel of the process. These days, if one sees any blood in the pre-packed Sunday joint on the shelf at M&S, one recoils and puts it back.
And all this talk of "fairness" (or lack of) is foolish. It is a man vs a bull. How exactly can one make match up such mis-matched inequality. Much better to concentrate energies on real (human) suffering. One day bullfighting will surely be a thing of the past. I shall not miss it. But as it's legal, I like to see and I want to feel.
I also enjoy pulling fish from the water with a hook through the lip. The shock of being airborne must be the inverse of "water-boarding" for us. Horribly cruel. And so unfair.
And talking of animal cruelty, on a distantly related note, I see that in 2007, dogs sent 368,000 persons to emergency rooms in the US, with 44,000 being facial injuries. 33 persons were mauled to death, with 17 being children.
I guess that I should come out as someone who has enjoyed bullfighting. Rather like those games of Roman yore, there is a certain degree of "mob" hysteria which one cannot but help (allowing oneself) getting caught up in. When I lived in Barcelona, a large group of us would bring sandwiches and wine, and make a pleasant afternoon of it. (Yes, yes...not so pleasant for the bull!).
I don't regard myself as some sort of Alpha++ guy, but there is a certain "rush" experienced when the bull first appears. The bull is not regarded as a "victim" but as an adversary. And the sight of blood is not such a bad thing in this age of total sanitation. I was raised on a farm, where death was all part and parcel of the process. These days, if one sees any blood in the pre-packed Sunday joint on the shelf at M&S, one recoils and puts it back.
And all this talk of "fairness" (or lack of) is foolish. It is a man vs a bull. How exactly can one make match up such mis-matched inequality. Much better to concentrate energies on real (human) suffering. One day bullfighting will surely be a thing of the past. I shall not miss it. But as it's legal, I like to see and I want to feel.
I also enjoy pulling fish from the water with a hook through the lip. The shock of being airborne must be the inverse of "water-boarding" for us. Horribly cruel. And so unfair.
And talking of animal cruelty, on a distantly related note, I see that in 2007, dogs sent 368,000 persons to emergency rooms in the US, with 44,000 being facial injuries. 33 persons were mauled to death, with 17 being children.
About legal fiestas, there are a lot of fiestas that are legal, like in this that light the bulls horn and people run in from of him and nobody minds the terrible heat the bull suffers and the burn in his eyes, and its legal. There are also another in which someone throws a duck from a hight tower, or in where people pull from the neck of a duck until its broken or.... so, there are a lot of legal fiestas that shouldnt exist.
I dont like to kill just for the fun of it. If i had to eat from what i hunted, maybe i would do it but its not my case.
Jul 4th 2009, 3:12 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
As marisol says, "Anyway, i think that discussing about this with people who like it its a waste of time, you never get an agreement".
I guess that I should come out as someone who has enjoyed bullfighting. Rather like those games of Roman yore, there is a certain degree of "mob" hysteria which one cannot but help (allowing oneself) getting caught up in. When I lived in Barcelona, a large group of us would bring sandwiches and wine, and make a pleasant afternoon of it. (Yes, yes...not so pleasant for the bull!).
I don't regard myself as some sort of Alpha++ guy, but there is a certain "rush" experienced when the bull first appears. The bull is not regarded as a "victim" but as an adversary. And the sight of blood is not such a bad thing in this age of total sanitation. I was raised on a farm, where death was all part and parcel of the process. These days, if one sees any blood in the pre-packed Sunday joint on the shelf at M&S, one recoils and puts it back.
And all this talk of "fairness" (or lack of) is foolish. It is a man vs a bull. How exactly can one make match up such mis-matched inequality. Much better to concentrate energies on real (human) suffering. One day bullfighting will surely be a thing of the past. I shall not miss it. But as it's legal, I like to see and I want to feel.
I also enjoy pulling fish from the water with a hook through the lip. The shock of being airborne must be the inverse of "water-boarding" for us. Horribly cruel. And so unfair.
And talking of animal cruelty, on a distantly related note, I see that in 2007, dogs sent 368,000 persons to emergency rooms in the US, with 44,000 being facial injuries. 33 persons were mauled to death, with 17 being children.
I guess that I should come out as someone who has enjoyed bullfighting. Rather like those games of Roman yore, there is a certain degree of "mob" hysteria which one cannot but help (allowing oneself) getting caught up in. When I lived in Barcelona, a large group of us would bring sandwiches and wine, and make a pleasant afternoon of it. (Yes, yes...not so pleasant for the bull!).
I don't regard myself as some sort of Alpha++ guy, but there is a certain "rush" experienced when the bull first appears. The bull is not regarded as a "victim" but as an adversary. And the sight of blood is not such a bad thing in this age of total sanitation. I was raised on a farm, where death was all part and parcel of the process. These days, if one sees any blood in the pre-packed Sunday joint on the shelf at M&S, one recoils and puts it back.
And all this talk of "fairness" (or lack of) is foolish. It is a man vs a bull. How exactly can one make match up such mis-matched inequality. Much better to concentrate energies on real (human) suffering. One day bullfighting will surely be a thing of the past. I shall not miss it. But as it's legal, I like to see and I want to feel.
I also enjoy pulling fish from the water with a hook through the lip. The shock of being airborne must be the inverse of "water-boarding" for us. Horribly cruel. And so unfair.
And talking of animal cruelty, on a distantly related note, I see that in 2007, dogs sent 368,000 persons to emergency rooms in the US, with 44,000 being facial injuries. 33 persons were mauled to death, with 17 being children.
Jul 4th 2009, 3:12 pm
#12
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Re: Bull Fighting
Last time I posted on a bull thread, I ended up getting called naughty names by a veggie. 
Jul 4th 2009, 3:22 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
Or, when the torero strikes and injures the bull, why aren't several other bulls allowed to run on to help their injured comrade? Like when the torero gets hurt?
It's manolete's birthday today, apparently
Jul 4th 2009, 3:24 pm
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Re: Bull Fighting
I just used it as an example of something else that involves cruelty...but probably will not lead to the banning of dogs. I already mentioned human cruelty.
The legal comment was really to point out, that as it legally exist....I want to see what's going on. I am curios. I also "rubber-neck" at accidents. But when it dies out, I will not be searching YouTube for old bullfighting videos.
I agree that it is cruel.
But I would disagree with the OP' comment that "Bullfighters are wannabe men making everyone believe they are courageous". It does take courage to stand in front of a charging bull.
The legal comment was really to point out, that as it legally exist....I want to see what's going on. I am curios. I also "rubber-neck" at accidents. But when it dies out, I will not be searching YouTube for old bullfighting videos.
I agree that it is cruel.
But I would disagree with the OP' comment that "Bullfighters are wannabe men making everyone believe they are courageous". It does take courage to stand in front of a charging bull.