Re: British standards ???
 

I shall not be responding to anything about headgear any more. It's been done to death and the UK should go the same way as France. I know I brought it up but I was referring to 8 to 10 yr olds on the schools website not women:thumbdown:

This school is supposed to be non-religious and they are introducing Islamic lessons. The Guy behind the school is involved in two more academies makes a change from care homes I suppose:unsure:

Anyway I suppose Offshit (as Private Eye calls Ofsted!) will sort it out.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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I was sent to an all-girls school, all the teachers were women, no boys were allowed on the premises, we were taught "scripture" (ie christianity's scriptures) and I was forced to wear a very silly hat. :frown:

The failure by some people to distinguish between real oppression and cruelty and harmless cultural differences does a disservice to those suffering from oppression because it makes the entire position look absurd.

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18 people killed and 100 polling stations burned, that is one hell of an election.

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Is that all....getting more democratic all the time:rofl:

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Which points all the more to the personal power and strength of the woman elected. Which is what the post was about.

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One swallow doth not a summer make.......as Feminists pointed out when Thatcher was PM!

Notice this Bangladeshi PM wasn't present when all the new members of her Government were sworn in at the Presidential palace:huh:

Re: British standards ???
 

Lioness in Winter what is your opinion of the following?

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/l...mets-religious

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Quite a few of them if you go through the list!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._of_government

Going back to the original school in question, it is an academy (for maths and science) they start at 11yrs.

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Not at all, since when does a few posts from the USUAL SUSPECTS make it definitive. Your summing up is wrong. Most Muslim women would have to ask their men if they could discard it. Some Muslim women have been threatened for not wearing headcover, one in London went to the Police after, harassment including obscene and threatening phone calls, vandalism and her car damaged. As for the stats 58% polled in the UK thought all types of head cover should be banned, even higher for the burka.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-ban-them.html

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Most Muslim women, perhaps you could qualify that; most in UK, in the world, in a particular country?? How do you know?

All types of head cover??? You mean we should be banned from wearing headscarves in the rain??? People on chemotherapy with hair loss shouldn't wear a hat??

I agree that shops etc. should have the right to ban men or women entering with their faces covered also school teachers should have their faces visible. This is quite a different issue than wearing a scarf, turban or hat.

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I am saying that not all headcoverings are a symbol of oppression of women and I think I and other posters have demonstrated that adequately. Some headscarves are just a regional or national dress style.

Burkhas and the like might well be a symbol of the oppression of women but not all headcoverings are burkhas.

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Yes - good post. I get the feeling that some people are objecting to something that just isn't sinister in any way.

Incidentally even if these girls were objecting to wearing a headcovering (is there any suggestion that they are?) it's not that much different to we boys not being too happy having to wear our school caps everywhere with threat of detention if we didn't.

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Was your school cap linked to puberty. Most muslims say that when a girl reaches puberty she cannot show her hair. How many muslim women have you spoken to...i bet not many, if any for you male appeasers cos it doesn't happen. Well I have, was part of my job at one time, much more reliable barometer than wikky or google and pathetic excuses about a school cap.

Once organised a seminar in Dewsbury for the Asian community to tap into EU funds. Told them the women had to come too as a lot of funded projects were for them. grudgingly the great and the good of the Mosque agreed. One minute before the event was due to start the women were ushered in like sheep and segregated and herded off again in the same way at the end.:blink:

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Like Bipat I would like to know how you know what MOST Muslims say, you must have spoken to an awful lot of them to know that, especially seeing as you value that method of research over others.

And TBH if that happens to be the custom amongst Muslims does that actually make it oppressive? Customary dress amongst non-Muslim girls and women change with age so I don't see that as particularly sinister.

Re: your last paragraph - quite appalling. There have been other well publicised instances of this kind of discrimination in the UK recently - often, sadly, in universities. I've no time for it.:frown:

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I see another Muslim Priest has finally be captured, good. Filth like this and their filthy religion should be hunted down.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-26286637

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Might be interesting to read at least one Muslim woman's view on the subject.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-no...rd-niqab-burka

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yeah lets not leave out the Guardian, the bible of every sandal wearing liberal....keep googling:lol:

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Yes - very interesting and I've read similar stories elsewhere too.

Not the only point of view of course but it rather belies the 'all headcovering is oppression' assertion doesn't it?

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Of course it does to the very gullible. Someone who worked for me, quite outspoken, (she left her Husband after he went back to Pakistan and married again) was threatened with having her legs broken for dressing Western style......you wouldn't read it in the Groaniad though, it was the real world not something cobbled together by an islington luvvie with a chequebook!

Anyway..............keep googling. I'm off..play nice:lol:

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Yes it is interesting, and so is Muslim womans view of coverings, which shows a different view to your example.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/archi...nt-wear-hijab/

We can go on forever and a day googling examples of for and against, you won´t change your opinion and I won´t change mine.

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I posted this example because all the Muslims I happen to know are of Indian origin and in your great extensive knowledge you will already be aware that they are often (not always) lets not generalise, less strict in their religious observance than those of Pakistani origin for example.

So I thought the link might be interesting.

Incidently most of us wear sandals when in India.

By the way what is wrong with being liberal?? The school which started this discussion is quite liberal in regards to its teaching.

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I think actually we are agreed!
I have just been trying to say that all Muslims whether men or women are not the same in their interpretation or observance of their religion.
Some are strict others are not. Some are extreme fanatics most are not.
But on this thread some posters see only the most negative practices as reality.

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I see it a bit different to you, I see it as some being happy in their religion and others being forced against their will to live a life they would not choose for themselves.

So by definition there are a lot of 'dysfunctional families' for want of a better word.

shouldn't the feeling of those who are not happy, be considered priority?

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As Bipat has said, not all muslims object to headcovering, only some.

And, btw, I for one am always prepared to change my opinion in the light of new evidence, it's an open mindedness thing...

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I am not arguing with that, I know some Muslims don't object to coverings.

The more extreme Muslims have been known to force their women to cover up, whereas the less extreme don't impose the none wearing of coverings on their women. In my view a big difference.

Bye and happy posting. I can't be bothered going round and round.

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If I may say so you seem determined not to agree. Of course nobody should be forced into anything against their will or subjected to domestic violence.
I have never said this.
It is a fact is that some Muslim women are more strict than their parents or even their husbands.
Particularly nowadays it has become something of a rebelliousness for some young women to wear a burqa when their mothers would not think of doing so, possibly because of negative publicity in newspapers etc.

But ALL are not the same. Also there are degrees of happiness. How many people of any religion 'go along with it' to keep the partner happy??

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Whatever.!

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Oi Dick, Dom.... Is this a worthwhile post? Just asking like.

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perhaps to "prove" their commitment to the religion

but the quite large number who have been schooled in the more "open" environment of British schools, without segregation, without men getting better training than women, have proven that it is possible to have a religion and yet not be ground into the earth. Without that more open attitude that is available in some countries where would all the female solicitors, doctors, surgeons, etc etc be if under the yoke of a male dominated world ??

May I suggest you protesteth too much for one side - the side of peace and calmness and cannot ever provide an reason or invalid excuse for some of the things that are perpetrated on women by men within their religion.
Regrettably it ends up with those coming up from childhood knowing that is their future and they cannot fight it.

If you cannot see and accept the problem then you are part of the problem
:(

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probably as much as

<<Sigh>>
posted regularly by another poster
who is also well known for hopping into a thread with a
<<Hey guys, whats happening?>>

but who am I to judge
??

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I'll take that as a "no".... I didn't think it was worthwhile

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but WTF it keeps the post count up to the normal daily average, so it has its purposes.
shutting this down will mean that other threads will be hit by nonsensical posts
:(

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I have never said that there was not a problem in some countries and in some communities and some families in the UK.
The ordinary reasonably happy women do not get described in the news!

I am not sure what you mean regarding female doctors, lawyers etc? are you suggesting there are none in Muslim countries. You are quite wrong. Even I was surprised at the number of women doctors in Pakistan! Saudi Arabia even has a female pilot although she is a princess:D
What about the prime ministers? see above posts.

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Oh dear god you can be boring as **** sometimes! Even when people try and talk to you in a friendly, normal way you act like a window licker.... Your post count is about 10.85 a day, mine is about 16 a day... You post about a third less a day than me and yet you criticise me for posting too much. Do you even realise how much of a cock that makes you look? I tried to point this out to you and the other two who ALWAYS point this out and you ignorant idiots thought I was trying to assert my dominance over you.... I mean that's the level of stupidity I'm dealing with here.... Oh dear god. It's almost worth leaving the site just to be rid of your stupidity.... But then that would be counter productive eh?

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I have my own little princess - but then she is my daughter

Amazed that you can be "surprised"
but then that was surely due to lack of knowledge, although those women are only allowed to practice on women never men.

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and as has been said previously, you are so dependable - in being defensive.
stop thinking that the world is ganging up on you.

I have recently been the butt of comment about a high post count - but what do you say in reply to someone who joined in 2006 and has only made 250 posts in that time.:(
BE is a forum for communicating on daily and longer term matters - but you know that.
I believe that contributing to a forum is about "contributing" not using it to take potshots at others

so put up the cane fencing and taking it out on others

rgds

Re: British standards ???
 

Look... I'm gonna give you a word of advice. There are two sorts of people on here that you are preaching to. One lot say stuff to cause a bit of friction. They try and create tension, start a fight and make a bit of a ding dong... They do it for a couple of reasons. Firstly to try and get people to bite and hopefully to get them banned and partly to just have a fight. They love it, they love to see everyone pile in and fight... It's why they are here. The other people are the complete idiots. They are stupid, lacked some education, missed out on something that in normal people allowed them to be empathetic. They rant about the foreigners, the Muslims, the French, the Empire, how they are the only ones who understand how the world works, you name it and nothing.... And I really do mean that... Nothing, not even facts will ever change their opinion. If someone has a personal experience it's bullshit, if someone has an opinion contrary to theirs it's wrong, if someone has some personal experience then it's something they made up to win an argument, because that's what is important to them... Winning the argument. Save your breath, leave them to spread their hatred and vitriol, they are a dying generation, they are mostly retired and no longer have any say in the modern world.... Leave them to their past.

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Not a clue what you're on about.... Cane fencing? Not a clue big boy.

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Yes, lack of knowledge I have never been to Pakistan.

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neither have I :)
been to India though, but not for long