brexit
 

Hi there

just wondering if a firm agreement has been made on the implications of brexit yet?

Would my family and i still be able to move out before we leave and access state schooling/healthcare?

thanks in advance

Re: brexit
 

Until the UK leaves then you have exactly the same Freedom of Movement rights as any other EU/EEA citizen. Until the Brexit deal is signed no-one will be able to guarantee exactly what will happen after we leave in regards to retained rights but many non-EU/EEA citizens reside in Spain and have no problems accessing education and healthcare. It will merely depend on what basis you are eligible.

Re: brexit
 

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst myself and BEVS moderate Europe. Please read the Site Rules Site Rules | British Expatriate Community adhere to them so that the site runs smoothly. Moderators are there to ensure that the rules of BE are maintained. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Re: brexit
 

You would be better off contacting your MP for information.

Members of BE only know what is said on news programmes and in the papers so are in the same boat as you regarding information.

Rosemary

Re: brexit
 

ok, i heard we were guaranteeing the rights of people already here, so was wondering if spain was doing the same.

and if so wether we would have less rights, as we would be last in so to speak

Re: brexit
 

They agreed that in the first round of the negotiations yes. However Mrs May says it's an whole deal at end of next round or no deal so we must all wait and see. As for MP's done that and no one knows untill Davis and May say so. I am afraid you simply have to do what you think is best, at the moment you have full rights of being in the EU.

Re: brexit
 

The UK Gov site is a useful guide

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advice-f...ving-in-europe

Re: brexit
 

It now seems pretty clear that if you are resident on the day that Brexit happens, all existing rights will be protected.

However, from my correspondence with the relevant UK government department, they talk about permanent residents on Brexit day. What they mean by permanent needs to be clarified as under the residency rules in Spain and the rest of the EU permanent residency is only granted after 5 years. Hopefully they mean anyone who lives permanently in Spain which is not the same thing as the EU definition of permanent residency.

After Brexit, no one has yet decided what will happen, but the Spanish government have stated that they wish to be as positive as possible to UK citizens in Spain. Of course, after Brexit, individual member states are free to make whatever arrangements they choose with regard to non EU citizens so hopefully the status quo will apply.

Although I don’t think this applies to the OP, my inquiry was about the continuation of the S1 healthcare arrangements for UK pensioners. The response I got was that for all permanent residents on Brexit day, the existing arrangements will apply. People who who have not reached pension age, will be allowed to use the S1 arrangents when they reach pension age. As I said earlier, it is not clear what they mean by permanent residents.

I will endeavour to get clarification on this in due course.

Re: brexit
 

The Muppets in UK Government dont have a clue on Brexit, so no one can give a answer to the Question.
It will be better to take a chance before Brexit than after.

Re: brexit
 

Thats what i was hoping,just unsure as to whether we would have the same access to state schooling/healthcare if resident for less than 5 years.

not sure i would want to take the gamble with a young family untill the decision has been made

Re: brexit
 

It seems to me that Fred has hit the nail on the head - it's pointless asking UK authorities about conditions for expats in Spain. After brexit there will be no protection under EU rules and Spain will decide for itself how it will deal with aliens and immigrants. You will need to ask the Spanish authorities what they plan to do.

Re: brexit
 

Too true, except for the reciprocal S1 and health agreements, which has to be initially and proactively driven by the UK. Which is worrying as the loonies seem to be doing well in taking over the asylum at the moment in the UK. Scary to watch.

Re: brexit
 

I didn't think that had anything to do with Brexit as it's not an EU decision but one between Spain and the UK. I could be wrong of course ;)

Re: brexit
 

It is an EU wide form like the old E121 so I assume it applies in all EU countries.

The UK Government position is that it will continue to apply, so we can only assume that it applies to all EU countries as it does now - until 2019 that is!

The only bit that is unique to each country is the calculation of the payment by the UK to the local health service. That is calculated on the pre capita cost of the local health service.

After 2019 or Brexit if different, it would be up to the UK to negotiate a similar deal with each country unless they agree to be bound by existing EU arrangements.

Re: brexit
 

I would have thought the Spanish after brexit would welcome those that can contribute to the country and can support themselves.....the same as anyone moving to the UK would.

Re: brexit
 

Absolutely. The Spanish government has already made statements to that effect.

Re: brexit
 

There was a bilateral agreement between the Department of Stealth and Total Obscurity (aka DHSS) and Spain in place before Spain acceded to the EU so I guess that might be resurrected.

Re: brexit
 

Thank you Fred, bang on. Its the last part of your answer I was referring to,its up to the UK to negotiate unless theres agreement. My concern is that this stealthy lot in charge will dump any new agreement and blame Brexit, when as stated EU membership and Brexit have nothing to do with it.Call my cynical but......

Re: brexit
 

I personally continue to think and hope positive. I have lined up all the boxes now and just hope it works to my favour. To have not done so would have left it all in the lap of the gods. You can only do the best you can because at least then you tried. Thats my theory

Re: brexit
 

We have taken out our Irish citizenship insurance policy. We have been here more than 5yrs so also have, padron, residencia permanente and have our S1 registered at the local clinic. We are registered in the Spanish tax system. I don’t know what more I can do but if anyone knows of further steps to take please post.

Re: brexit
 

No, I think you have it covered, honestly. Bob and I are the same, our S1's are due just AFTER the Brexit date, so we are hoping / planning for the best. You, on the other hand have it cracked I believe. And good luck to you too!

Re: brexit
 

Hi is there any advancemnt on this yet?

i keep hearing things on the news all the time but cant keep up with it all

thanks

Re: brexit
 

If you are a permanent resident at the time of Brexit, but you become eligible for S1 coverage after Brexit, you will still be able to get S1 health cover.

Re: brexit
 

champion,thanks fred so does that apply to schooling as well?

so thats decided unless they change their minds of course.?

so if resident before brexit the whole family can stay with full state rights?

Re: brexit
 

If you are already a resident schooling should not be a problem.

The problem is, as I have said on other threads, is that UK government talks about rights being retained for people who have permanent residency without defining what that means. As far as EU law is concerned, you become a permanent resident after 5 years.

If you have been resident for 5 years I cannot see any problems and I can’t see any problems with the Spanish end as they have every reason to want us to stay with as many rights as possible.

Re: brexit
 

Can you show link where this has been agreed?
Cheers

Re: brexit
 

I dont have a link as the information was in an email from the Dept of Health in response to an enquiry I made to the Dept for Exiting the EU.

This is the text in full.

Thank you for your correspondence of 17 December to the Department for Exiting the EU about the S1 form after the UK leaves the EU. As the matter you raise relates to healthcare, your correspondence has been passed to the Department for Health and Social Care and I have been asked to reply.

I appreciate your concerns.

The UK Government appreciates the importance of retaining existing reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the EU and has been clear in the negotiations that it wants to see the continuation of these arrangements when the UK leaves the EU. This includes healthcare rights for state pensioners (known as the S1 route), the European Health Insurance Card and planned treatment.

In September, the UK and the EU reached an initial, wide-ranging agreement in principle to protect reciprocal healthcare rights for anyone who is permanently resident in another member state on Exit Day. This includes people who are of state pension age, and those who are not yet of state pension age once they start drawing their UK state pension. This commitment was further reiterated in the Joint Report agreed by the UK Government and the European Commission, which was published on 8 December.

This means that any UK-insured person of UK state pension age and permanently resident in the EU on Exit Day will continue to access reciprocal healthcare rights as they draw their UK state pension.

Since you currently live in Spain as a UK state pensioner on a permanent residency basis and intend to do so on Exit Day, the agreement reached with the European Commission is applicable to you.

I hope this reply is helpful.

Yours sincerely,

Ola Adigun
Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries
Department of Health and Social Care

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Re: brexit
 

Thank you Fred for all of your efforts to keep us informed.

Rosemry

Re: brexit
 

so theres nothing in any small print to stay you must have been resident for x amount of time before the day we leave?

we could move out there a month before we leave get our paperwork in order themn be allowed to stay and then after 5 years could apply for permenant residency

Re: brexit
 

Hi,

We attended a Brexit seminar yesterday that was arranged by the British Consulate (Alicante). She gave a lengthy speech about expat rights, after Brexit, including healthcare etc etc.
She stated that anyone who was "Legal" in Spain with residencia, healthcare by means of S1 and on the Padron will continue to receive healthcare and pension rights (annual increases) She didn't mention permanent residency until later at question time.

So I understand from that, that if expats have been here, say, for 3 years and "Legal" on Brexit day 2019 then they will retain all rights they have now.

I might have misunderstood something along the way but after the usual chitchat between us after the meeting we all seemed to agree.

Steve

Re: brexit
 

That is reassuring, thanks Steve.

Was anything said that made you concerned about your life in Spain post Brexit? Areas that perhaps came to light that people have not really paid attention to.

Rosemary

Re: brexit
 

It was quite a comprehensive seminar which covered and confirmed subjects that are posted here on BE.

I personally was satisfied with the seminar and recommend that if there is a meeting in the area where they live to attend. There is ample time at the end to ask questions.

I, at the moment, have no problem with Brexit.

Steve

Re: brexit
 

so were still not 100% sure it will apply to familys who move there 6 months or so before b day?

Re: brexit
 

They stated at the seminar that "anyone" who is Legal in Spain (as I described in my previous post) on Brexit day will continue to receive healthcare and other agreed residency rights and benifits.

Steve

Re: brexit
 

If you move before B-day and have completed all the formalities, registration, Padron etc, there should be no problems.

The big question is for those that arrive during the transition period (assuming there is one).

Re: brexit
 

That's correct Fred. The consul at the meeting would not speak about the transition period as there might not be one. They would only speak about what rights expats will have on Brexit day 2019.

Steve

Re: brexit
 

If there is a transition, it will be on the same terms. The EU won't budge on that. TM was squeaking about the UK insisting on different rules for EU citizens that arrive during transition but in the position statement that she issued yesterday, she made no mention of it. For as long as the UK wants to enjoy any of the four freedoms it has to accept all four, they are indivisible. So the only question is, will there be a transition or will it be a cliff edge.

Re: brexit
 

excellent,thanks for the clarification guys

Re: brexit
 

Can I give a massive vote of thanks to Fred for the hard won information, Steve and anyone else that attended the meetings and have been kind enough to let us all know what was said.

A big thank you from all the Expats, who like me live 'in the sticks' and are treated like mushrooms in many respects. Your fact based and honest information is invaluable in a World full of bull**it.

Re: brexit
 

She has just done an about turn on this. She is now giving the same right to EU migrants during the transition as those that arrive before it.

As for whether the same rules will apply to UK migrants has yet to be agreed but I would say it is almost certain that they will offer the same, now that she has given in.

Details here https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ntation-period