Not yet at least.



From the BBC

Spain's public debt reached a record high in June, the country's central bank said.

The figure has risen to 942.8bn euros (£792.5bn; $1.3 trillion), equal to 92.2% of the country's entire economic output, the bank said.

This is nearly 15% higher than the same period last year and above the Spanish government's target limit of 91.4%, despite severe public spending cuts.

Austerity measures have led to street protests as unemployment now tops 26%.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's government is aiming to reduce public spending by 150bn euros between 2012 and 2014, but rising unemployment and the consequent benefit payments, is making this target difficult to reach.

The bank believes public debt could top 100% of gross domestic product over the next three years, its highest level in more than a century, as the government struggles to revive the country's flagging economy.

Bank borrowing

Mr Rajoy may derive some comfort from other figures showing that the country's debt-laden banks have been successfully reducing their borrowing from the European Central Bank (ECB) over the year.

Spanish banks borrowed 249.3bn euros from the ECB in August, making it the 12th successive month their borrowing has fallen.

In August 2012, they borrowed 411bn euros from the ECB, a record high, reflecting almost total lack of investor confidence in the country's stricken banking sector.

The banks received 41bn euros of EU bail-out funding in 2012

I can't see them having much success in reducing it as long as unemployment remains so high, and many of the jobs that are being created are temporary or part time, meaning less tax being collected. I have read that forecasts say that UK public debt will also reach 100% of GDP by 2016, despite the economic recovery.

However, I believe Spanish borrowing costs have reduced slightly in the last few months, as a result of the "risk premium" being lowered. This table of countries' debt to GDP ratio contains a couple of very surprising (to me) examples - look at Japan! I would have thought that with a public debt of over 200% of GDP hosting the Olympics would have been the last thing on their minds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt

Are you standing in for Stevie whilst he is busy to do "what about the UK then posts"

Oh, I thought DD and Agoreira had taken on that mantle - see my Made in Spain thread with DD immediately quoting a similar trend in the UK and the Repeat Medication thread with Aggy bringing in mention of "the good old NHS" apropos of nothing.

Team UK can mention the UK quickly enough when it suits their agenda, so let's have a level playing field, shall we?

Smart answer, but to be fair, having witnessed the constant disruption of Spanish threads on the Spanish section for about as long as I can remember, it's little wonder that the bulldogs have finally started biting back.

Sorry Dick, but the pot has been calling the kettle black for as long as I've been on this forum. Now, I've no objection to people talking about UK issues or citing them in a discussion, but I won't be told that neither I nor others should not do the same. Please note, I didn't look to make any silly points about mentioning the UK in either of the posts mentioned in my earlier response - just let the debate take it's course. Would it not be better to do that in every case?

What perplexes me about the whole economic situation is how recovery can be said to be taking place at the same time as public debt is increasing - here in Spain or anywhere else. Wasn't excessive debt a major cause of the crisis in the first place? How can a country like Japan carry on functioning with a public debt level of over 200% of GDP (I thought that must be a misprint when I read in in the table I linked to)? Can anybody make sense of it all?

Precisely the opposite.

I simply can't understand why UK issues regardless wether negative or positive cannot be discussed in a sensible manner where they belong on one of the two other sections ?

I have began numerous UK topics up there myself, involving things such as the corruption regarding UK MPs and Peers or the underhand tactics used by the Press.

Surely it's far better to discuss topics in the appropriate place within their own parameters than have the repeated childish disruption of the Spanish section ?

Yes, fair enough there are situations where the two clearly overlap for very obvious reasons, but not every bloody time for no good reason at all other than bloodymindedness, surely ?

Although I tend to disagree with you on many things, I think that's a very good point. It's extremely difficult to make sense of it all - at all, and I doubt there are many people that actually can make sense of it.

But when you view it from a macro view, it all looks a bit clearer. Forget the numbers this week, or next week. The trends over a long period of time are very telling.

Also, the world is pretty interconnected. If things get better in the US and/or the UK, certainly it will have a positive effect here. And certainly if things do get better here, it will make things better elsewhere.

But to look at any one number in any one region on any given day and call it "recovery" simply has little chance of providing any accurate prediction for the future.

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/...n-too-big-fail

Too big to fail and too big to bail ?

"The austerity measures launched under the socialist government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero and maintained by his conservative successor Mariano Rajoy have not been enough to contain the consequences of Spain's housing bubble collapse. Sunk by too many toxic assets, Spain's banks must be recapitalized. But the state, with an asphyxiated economy, is struggling to raise funds, while refusing foreign aid. And Europe fears that an eventual bailout could sink the euro project."

Could it bring down the whole Eurozone house of cards,
......maybe not such a bad thing if it did.

Neither can I make sense of the debt ratios. Does it depend on the borrowers repayment intention? Can you wipe out your debt by simply printing more money? Does being heavily indebted mean your lender has to buy your exports? Or is that the other way round?

What's that old saying: if the banks lend me money it becomes their problem?

And where's Stevie?

In all of history, governments have always "printed" their way out of debt crisis. Today, Spain, unfortunately, doesn't have that option.

A simple example (that I've used before) is that in the 1950's, if an Italian had 1 million Lira, they would have been very wealthy indeed. On holiday in the late 90's, it wasn't at all unusual that I would have with 1 million Lira in my bag. Over that 50 years the Italians printed lots and lots of money, hugely devaluing the Lira, wiping out billions in debt, keeping Italian exports competitive, and encouraging Italians to continue to spend.

Is it "right"? Well that's arguable, but it has so far been the most effective (and popular) way out of debt since "economies" began.

The Eurozone (and particularly the most debt-ridden south) has largely chosen to impose austerity rather than flood the economy with money. Perhaps it is considered the "right" thing to do. But by all accounts, that strategy has only enriched net producers such as Germany, and committed the southern members to decades of austerity. So much for the "common" market.

Time will tell, but so far, the economy hasn't completely tanked and shows a few signs of improvement. But I seriously doubt there will be any measurable boom in the Spanish (or Italian or Greek or Portuguese) economy this decade. And if "tax greed" continues across Europe, it may well fall back into recession many times before ever seeing any long-term growth.

It would seem that Muslim dictatorships that happen to have a lot of oil do well in the GDP game.

And then there's good old Gib. to upset the applecart.

Until a rainy day, when much like their umbrella they demand it be returned immediately or even worse if in Spain it could be the roof over your head.

I am not talking about topics started about UK issues - I am talking about references to the UK being introduced into threads about Spain, as you very well know. In recent days/weeks, I've waded through reams of guff about what people are eating for dinner (in the UK), where they bought what they're eating for dinner (in the UK), what happened when they visited a car showroom (in the UK), restaurants/hotels they've visited (in the UK), and not raised an objection to any of it. But as soon as I refer to the fact that public debt is rising in the UK as it is in Spain, in spite of signs of economic recovery (which is something that puzzles me) then somebody wants to make a silly and irrelevant issue of it. No, I will not put up with that any longer.