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Animal barbarism in Spain

Animal barbarism in Spain

Old Dec 17th 2009, 3:32 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
... and the previous part of the post? Nah, better to believe what you want to believe right?


You were wrong about terraces, you are wrong about this, accept it.
yawn...

We're a bunch of sadohs having arguments about absolutely nothing at all. What sad lives we lead cos we obviously cant find anything better to do.

My excuse is it gives me a brief respite from working, but its just not interesting any more.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 3:36 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by JnK
No, most people probably just want a sensible discussion.
As was this until the fake Spaniard popped in to slag me off and turn this into a "them and us" thread

as most know on here will know I love a good discussion about this subject as I have some pretty strong views about what constitutes animal cruelty, not least that I personally don't think that bull fighting is cruel.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 3:41 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
As was this until the fake Spaniard popped in to slag me off and turn this into a "them and us" thread

as most know on here will know I love a good discussion about this subject as I have some pretty strong views about what constitutes animal cruelty, not least that I personally don't think that bull fighting is cruel.
I respect your right to hold your own views absolutely, and I don't think this forum should be somewhere for anyone to slag anyone else off. I do happen to think that bull fighting is cruel though so shall we agree to disagree
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 3:43 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by JnK
I respect your right to hold your own views absolutely, and I don't think this forum should be somewhere for anyone to slag anyone else off. I do happen to think that bull fighting is cruel though so shall we agree to disagree
Or we could discuss why we feel that way?
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 3:46 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Or we could discuss why we feel that way?
Because I think it's morally repugnant that people can enjoy watching some animal being killed ... it's not a bullfight, the bull never has a chance really. It should be renamed a bull slaughter. How's that?
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 3:58 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by JnK
Because I think it's morally repugnant that people can enjoy watching some animal being killed ... it's not a bullfight, the bull never has a chance really. It should be renamed a bull slaughter. How's that?
Well, it isnt called a bull fight in Spanish. It is the "corrida de toros" which is kind of like a "bull run". This is because during fiesta time there is the running of the bulls through the village streets into the bullring

There is no disguising what is happening in the Spanish, what we call "bull fighters" in English are called "killers" in Spanish "matadores" and the "picadillos" who are kind of like "stabbers".

The bulls are thought of as "noble" beasts and are treated just like nobles during their life. Some may say that the bulls are just fulfilling their destiny because the type of bulls have been bred throughout history to fulfill their role, just as we have bred animals to eat or give milk.

I have to say I hated the idea of bullfights, but after learning a little about them and watching on TV, it truely is an art. I liken the toreros to male flamenco dancers. They are masculin, skilled, brave and graceful all at the same time.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:01 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by JnK
Because I think it's morally repugnant that people can enjoy watching some animal being killed ... it's not a bullfight, the bull never has a chance really. It should be renamed a bull slaughter. How's that?
Thats a bit of an extreme opinion though isn't it?
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:04 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
Well, it isnt called a bull fight in Spanish. It is the "corrida de toros" which is kind of like a "bull run". This is because during fiesta time there is the running of the bulls through the village streets into the bullring

There is no disguising what is happening in the Spanish, what we call "bull fighters" in English are called "killers" in Spanish "matadores" and the "picadillos" who are kind of like "stabbers".

The bulls are thought of as "noble" beasts and are treated just like nobles during their life. Some may say that the bulls are just fulfilling their destiny because the type of bulls have been bred throughout history to fulfill their role, just as we have bred animals to eat or give milk.

I have to say I hated the idea of bullfights, but after learning a little about them and watching on TV, it truely is an art. I liken the toreros to male flamenco dancers. They are masculin, skilled, brave and graceful all at the same time.
I can see that it's definitely an art to avoid being impaled on a bull's horns but maybe it would be better if the bull actually lived to "run" another day or even stood a bit of a chance of winning. A bit like rodeos I suppose. Probably not. We wouldn't really eat much if we had to chase chickens, cows lambs and pigs around - gracefully and skilfully - would we
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:05 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Thats a bit of an extreme opinion though isn't it?
Yes, I suppose you're right. Animal cruelty is just one of my pet hates. In fact not true, cruelty of any kind gets me going. I just can't get my head around it at all.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:10 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by JnK
Yes, I suppose you're right. Animal cruelty is just one of my pet hates. In fact not true, cruelty of any kind gets me going. I just can't get my head around it at all.
Thats fine but as has already been suggested maybe the real issue is the way meat is reared across the world, I mean OK, a few hundred bulls die in Spain, Mexico, Portugal and France, but billions of animals live in absolute misery every year and no one actually cares so long as they get cheap food.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:13 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Thats fine but as has already been suggested maybe the real issue is the way meat is reared across the world, I mean OK, a few hundred bulls die in Spain, Mexico, Portugal and France, but billions of animals live in absolute misery every year and no one actually cares so long as they get cheap food.
I quite agree with you. And I don't understand how the UK has laws on animal farming but have no problem importing meat from countries with little or no laws whatsoever (other countries probably do this too but I know the UK market that's why I use it before anybody jumps on me). It all comes down to greed I suppose, especially for wealthy countries.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:16 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by JnK
I quite agree with you. And I don't understand how the UK has laws on animal farming but have no problem importing meat from countries with little or no laws whatsoever (other countries probably do this too but I know the UK market that's why I use it before anybody jumps on me). It all comes down to greed I suppose, especially for wealthy countries.
Its all about trade, countries backs have to be scratched and unfortunately we all pay the price, thankfully it may all change now with the Chinese signing trade deals for meat with Argentina and Brazil, we may well start to value the livestock farmers here in the UK and supporting the outstanding job they do...
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:16 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Thats fine but as has already been suggested maybe the real issue is the way meat is reared across the world, I mean OK, a few hundred bulls die in Spain, Mexico, Portugal and France, but billions of animals live in absolute misery every year and no one actually cares so long as they get cheap food.


Absolutely. The bulls have such a better life than the vast majority of meet and dairy animals have

Another reason why I like to eat good quality jamon de bellota. They are completely free range and feed on acorns that fall of the trees. Much better than eating pigs that have been kept in stalls, on concrete, in filth, both ethically and for the taste buds!
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:19 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Its all about trade, countries backs have to be scratched and unfortunately we all pay the price, thankfully it may all change now with the Chinese signing trade deals for meat with Argentina and Brazil, we may well start to value the livestock farmers here in the UK and supporting the outstanding job they do...
Hallelujah to that rugbymatt ... I hope things do change.
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Old Dec 17th 2009, 4:19 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Animal barbarism in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman


Absolutely. The bulls have such a better life than the vast majority of meet and dairy animals have

Another reason why I like to eat good quality jamon de bellota. They are completely free range and feed on acorns that fall of the trees. Much better than eating pigs that have been kept in stalls, on concrete, in filth, both ethically and for the taste buds!
Its all down to money, people want cheap food, they want to gorge themselves for next to nothing and the only way they can is by allowing their own morals to be compromised and pretend that its all OK because they are not having to face the harsh facts of life in commercial farms.
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