Andalucia demolitions
Oct 22nd 2013, 9:52 pm
#61
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Andalucia demolitions
It would seem that illegal properties, dodgy solicitors, mayors etc along with demolitions are not the prerogative of Spain
Italy has similar problems
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...iday-home.html
Italy has similar problems
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...iday-home.html
Oct 22nd 2013, 10:05 pm
#62
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Andalucia demolitions
Not just Spain. Does this sound familiar. The club med countries must see the Brits as a soft touch.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...iday-home.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...iday-home.html
Oct 23rd 2013, 2:16 am
#63
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 178
Re: Andalucia demolitions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nning-row.html
what ???? :
"An estimated 300,000 homes in Andalusia, many of them bought by British owners, have been classified as illegally built and could face demolition orders.
“It is unbelievable that at a time when Spain is suffering such a deep economic crisis and high unemployment and needs tourism and foreign investment the authorities would do this,” said Mr Brooks. “It sends a message. Do not buy in Spain.” "
if true (....), what impact will it have ? it is a way to get rid of some Brits because spaniards feel they are too many ?
aren't these 300,000 houses bringing nice property taxes to the municipalities ??
aren't these houses if rented to tenants, bringing in income taxes to the SPanish State and municipalities ?? I am sure some of these are being rented to tenants, no ?
if those houses are about to be demolished (will take years of lawsuits though etc), the impact on the value of the "other" houses and apartments?
Or further demotivating Brits or foreigners to invest in Spain.
very troubling and weird.
300,000 ???? and again, they were not that illegal for the municipalities since property taxes were collected each year and perhaps taxes on rent income if rented!
or or... get rid of these, and rebuild and thus give again construction work to Spanish workers?....
bottom line: what kind of calculations, guessings are they making in Madrid?
on one hand, there ARE too many houses and apartments. prices a relow and experts say they could fall another 20%
over the next 1-2 years before reaching the final bottom. very plausible.
demolishing all thoses would one hand give a bad signal "buyer beware" to foreigners (not good) but would help stabilise prices
or even make some areas rise in prices.
but nevertheless demolishing thoses houses would then suppress 300,000 annual property taxes ! a big loss for the region.
and who will pay for the demolition cost ?
Is thus the gvt and local authorities planning to help the job market in the construction sector by then authorizing
new legal (..) constructions, say a hundred thousands ? by destroying the wealth of Brit pensioners especially but giving jobs for years to thousands of contruction workers (Spanish ones)?
We don t know however of those 300,000 houses if it includes also houses and apartment complexes built but never sold yet.
Money needed to be put somewhere...
Troubling.
what ???? :
"An estimated 300,000 homes in Andalusia, many of them bought by British owners, have been classified as illegally built and could face demolition orders.
“It is unbelievable that at a time when Spain is suffering such a deep economic crisis and high unemployment and needs tourism and foreign investment the authorities would do this,” said Mr Brooks. “It sends a message. Do not buy in Spain.” "
if true (....), what impact will it have ? it is a way to get rid of some Brits because spaniards feel they are too many ?
aren't these 300,000 houses bringing nice property taxes to the municipalities ??
aren't these houses if rented to tenants, bringing in income taxes to the SPanish State and municipalities ?? I am sure some of these are being rented to tenants, no ?
if those houses are about to be demolished (will take years of lawsuits though etc), the impact on the value of the "other" houses and apartments?
Or further demotivating Brits or foreigners to invest in Spain.
very troubling and weird.
300,000 ???? and again, they were not that illegal for the municipalities since property taxes were collected each year and perhaps taxes on rent income if rented!
or or... get rid of these, and rebuild and thus give again construction work to Spanish workers?....
bottom line: what kind of calculations, guessings are they making in Madrid?
on one hand, there ARE too many houses and apartments. prices a relow and experts say they could fall another 20%
over the next 1-2 years before reaching the final bottom. very plausible.
demolishing all thoses would one hand give a bad signal "buyer beware" to foreigners (not good) but would help stabilise prices
or even make some areas rise in prices.
but nevertheless demolishing thoses houses would then suppress 300,000 annual property taxes ! a big loss for the region.
and who will pay for the demolition cost ?
Is thus the gvt and local authorities planning to help the job market in the construction sector by then authorizing
new legal (..) constructions, say a hundred thousands ? by destroying the wealth of Brit pensioners especially but giving jobs for years to thousands of contruction workers (Spanish ones)?
We don t know however of those 300,000 houses if it includes also houses and apartment complexes built but never sold yet.
Money needed to be put somewhere...
Troubling.
Last edited by sam54140; Oct 23rd 2013 at 2:39 am.
Oct 23rd 2013, 6:22 am
#64
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Andalucia demolitions
Funny you should say that. I used to know two British newspaper proprietors on the CDS who were extremely successful. I think one of them now lives in Almeria.
I know four British newspaper proprietors here on the Costa Blanca who are very successful. I know a car dealer, he owns several extremely large premises, who is a multi millionaire.
Thinking more about it, I know a British butcher with several shops in my locality who is rolling in money.
With the exception of the guy in Almeria, I don't think any of them are members of this forum.
And I haven't even started on the estate agents. Or the insurance brokers. Or the financial advisors. Or the British lawyers.
I'm going to stop because I'm running out of space.
I know four British newspaper proprietors here on the Costa Blanca who are very successful. I know a car dealer, he owns several extremely large premises, who is a multi millionaire.
Thinking more about it, I know a British butcher with several shops in my locality who is rolling in money.
With the exception of the guy in Almeria, I don't think any of them are members of this forum.
And I haven't even started on the estate agents. Or the insurance brokers. Or the financial advisors. Or the British lawyers.
I'm going to stop because I'm running out of space.
Not quite sure what your point is HBG.
If these people exist and are making money legally, hand over fist, while so many others are going tits up, then surely it is the Spanish taxman who will be rubbing his hands with glee, whilst their normal living expenses will also be going back into the Spanish economy.
If on the other hand any of them are not operating legally or dodging their taxes in Spain, I can hardly imagine a single brass farthing of it finding it's way into George Osbourne's grubby fingers.
Last edited by Dick Dasterdly; Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:55 am. Reason: typo
Oct 23rd 2013, 7:05 am
#65
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Andalucia demolitions
Oct 23rd 2013, 7:38 am
#66
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Andalucia demolitions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nning-row.html
what ???? :
"An estimated 300,000 homes in Andalusia, many of them bought by British owners, have been classified as illegally built and could face demolition orders.
“It is unbelievable that at a time when Spain is suffering such a deep economic crisis and high unemployment and needs tourism and foreign investment the authorities would do this,” said Mr Brooks. “It sends a message. Do not buy in Spain.” "
if true (....), what impact will it have ? it is a way to get rid of some Brits because spaniards feel they are too many ?
aren't these 300,000 houses bringing nice property taxes to the municipalities ??
aren't these houses if rented to tenants, bringing in income taxes to the SPanish State and municipalities ?? I am sure some of these are being rented to tenants, no ?
if those houses are about to be demolished (will take years of lawsuits though etc), the impact on the value of the "other" houses and apartments?
Or further demotivating Brits or foreigners to invest in Spain.
very troubling and weird.
300,000 ???? and again, they were not that illegal for the municipalities since property taxes were collected each year and perhaps taxes on rent income if rented!
or or... get rid of these, and rebuild and thus give again construction work to Spanish workers?....
bottom line: what kind of calculations, guessings are they making in Madrid?
on one hand, there ARE too many houses and apartments. prices a relow and experts say they could fall another 20%
over the next 1-2 years before reaching the final bottom. very plausible.
demolishing all thoses would one hand give a bad signal "buyer beware" to foreigners (not good) but would help stabilise prices
or even make some areas rise in prices.
but nevertheless demolishing thoses houses would then suppress 300,000 annual property taxes ! a big loss for the region.
and who will pay for the demolition cost ?
Is thus the gvt and local authorities planning to help the job market in the construction sector by then authorizing
new legal (..) constructions, say a hundred thousands ? by destroying the wealth of Brit pensioners especially but giving jobs for years to thousands of contruction workers (Spanish ones)?
We don t know however of those 300,000 houses if it includes also houses and apartment complexes built but never sold yet.
Money needed to be put somewhere...
Troubling.
what ???? :
"An estimated 300,000 homes in Andalusia, many of them bought by British owners, have been classified as illegally built and could face demolition orders.
“It is unbelievable that at a time when Spain is suffering such a deep economic crisis and high unemployment and needs tourism and foreign investment the authorities would do this,” said Mr Brooks. “It sends a message. Do not buy in Spain.” "
if true (....), what impact will it have ? it is a way to get rid of some Brits because spaniards feel they are too many ?
aren't these 300,000 houses bringing nice property taxes to the municipalities ??
aren't these houses if rented to tenants, bringing in income taxes to the SPanish State and municipalities ?? I am sure some of these are being rented to tenants, no ?
if those houses are about to be demolished (will take years of lawsuits though etc), the impact on the value of the "other" houses and apartments?
Or further demotivating Brits or foreigners to invest in Spain.
very troubling and weird.
300,000 ???? and again, they were not that illegal for the municipalities since property taxes were collected each year and perhaps taxes on rent income if rented!
or or... get rid of these, and rebuild and thus give again construction work to Spanish workers?....
bottom line: what kind of calculations, guessings are they making in Madrid?
on one hand, there ARE too many houses and apartments. prices a relow and experts say they could fall another 20%
over the next 1-2 years before reaching the final bottom. very plausible.
demolishing all thoses would one hand give a bad signal "buyer beware" to foreigners (not good) but would help stabilise prices
or even make some areas rise in prices.
but nevertheless demolishing thoses houses would then suppress 300,000 annual property taxes ! a big loss for the region.
and who will pay for the demolition cost ?
Is thus the gvt and local authorities planning to help the job market in the construction sector by then authorizing
new legal (..) constructions, say a hundred thousands ? by destroying the wealth of Brit pensioners especially but giving jobs for years to thousands of contruction workers (Spanish ones)?
We don t know however of those 300,000 houses if it includes also houses and apartment complexes built but never sold yet.
Money needed to be put somewhere...
Troubling.
In the Almanzora Valley near Albox and the surrounding area there are reported to be about 12,500 illegals. This is a figure by AUAN and if you go out there and look at the hundreds of houses that have been on hillsides, nestling in valleys where there only used to be an occaisional workers nave you start to understand how things have escalated.
People got hungry for real money instead of the fluctuating price for olives, supposedly rich foreigners came along and paid high prices for poorly built properties, many even wanted to buy the olive orchard.
Just take a good look on Google satellite and zoom in, you will find many hamlets of 5 or 6 older properties now surrounded by hundreds of bungalows, all with their own swimming pool. Many have "difficulties" over water and electricity, which sellers obviously shrug over as minor compared with the life they have out there.
There are supposed to be 5-6000 illegal properties in the Axarquia region, many are solitary homes built on a hill with a marvellous view of the sea, access by roads a goat would look askance at.
The problem exists and many people do not talk about their problems and worries because they don't want to look foolish in front of others so put on a brave face. Many have just locked up and left the property, others come once a year for a cheap holiday and spend all their time cleaning up.
If you want to squander your money and buy an illegal I can give you the names of a few agencies who will have no qualms about taking you many, they will even promise you there are no legal problems with any of the houses on their books. One I know told me that they only sell legals, and promptly took me to one that was illegal.
the problem isn't just with the large blocks of flats that stand unfinished - they are another symptom of Spains problems.
`
Oct 23rd 2013, 8:28 am
#67
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: Andalucia demolitions
Maybe you should stop running before falling further into a hole of your own making.
Not quite sure what your point is HBG.
If these people exist and are making money legally, hand over fist, while so many others are going tits up, then surely it is the Spanish taxman who will be rubbing his hands with glee, whilst their normal living expenses will also be going back into the Spanish economy.
If on the other hand any of them are not operating legally or dodging their taxes in Spain, I can hardly imagine a single brass farthing of it finding it's way into George Osbourne's grubby fingers.
Not quite sure what your point is HBG.
If these people exist and are making money legally, hand over fist, while so many others are going tits up, then surely it is the Spanish taxman who will be rubbing his hands with glee, whilst their normal living expenses will also be going back into the Spanish economy.
If on the other hand any of them are not operating legally or dodging their taxes in Spain, I can hardly imagine a single brass farthing of it finding it's way into George Osbourne's grubby fingers.
It's a fallacy that us expats live a hand-to-mouth existence in Spain, a total myth perpetuated by a few failed but vociferous expats. You need to have some financial clout to come and live in Spain in the first place, and such people are well able to fend for themselves once here.
It seems we have concentrated on the expat failures, they would have failed back home too.
(In case you think I'm somehow exaggerating my point, get yourself a local expat paper like the Costa Blanca news and read the advertisements).
Oct 23rd 2013, 8:35 am
#68
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Velez-Malaga
Posts: 4,947
Re: Andalucia demolitions
This article claims that the number of unsold properties in Malaga province has fallen by 20% over the last three years - cheer up, there are only 39,000 to go!
http://www.diariosur.es/v/20131023/m...-20131023.html
http://www.diariosur.es/v/20131023/m...-20131023.html
Oct 23rd 2013, 8:46 am
#69
Account Closed
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,176
Re: Andalucia demolitions
I've employed many Spanish tradesmen over the years, instead of the many British tradesmen readily available here in Spain, thousands of them. I've sometimes employed the Spanish ones even if the British ones were better and cheaper, to put something back into the country I have spent so many happy years in.
I know many British businesses trading in Spain, who do send their profits back to the UK, I was in one only earlier today. They've hit a niche in the market and friends and family are coming over in droves to take money back to the UK. They've even bought a large Yacht which is moored locally, but will be heading back to the UK in the future.
Some of the biggest entertainment venues in Benidorm are British owned, though not often advertised as such, and they don't keep their profits in Spain.
I know many British businesses trading in Spain, who do send their profits back to the UK, I was in one only earlier today. They've hit a niche in the market and friends and family are coming over in droves to take money back to the UK. They've even bought a large Yacht which is moored locally, but will be heading back to the UK in the future.
Some of the biggest entertainment venues in Benidorm are British owned, though not often advertised as such, and they don't keep their profits in Spain.
What pumps shed loads of cash into an economy is the running of the business. Rental, power, suppliers, salaries, couriers, accountants, taxes. The "profits" are in everyone´s pocket before any cash is sent away!
Oct 23rd 2013, 10:06 am
#70
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Andalucia demolitions
Just because they are doing ok with their business in Spain doesn't imply they are sending money back to the UK More likely offshore.
You say a dentist running a Merc...well, he would have bought it in Spain, fills it up in Spain and also lives and eats well there. Probably employ a gardener and cleaner. Anyway, just because people look outwardly wealthy doesn't mean they have any money left over, many people, even rich ones live to the limit.
I have seen some apparently successful businesses running for a few years and suddenly close down!
More likely offshore.You say a dentist running a Merc...well, he would have bought it in Spain, fills it up in Spain and also lives and eats well there. Probably employ a gardener and cleaner. Anyway, just because people look outwardly wealthy doesn't mean they have any money left over, many people, even rich ones live to the limit.
I have seen some apparently successful businesses running for a few years and suddenly close down!
Oct 23rd 2013, 10:09 am
#71
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Andalucia demolitions
Oct 23rd 2013, 10:52 am
#72
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 985
Re: Andalucia demolitions
In the old days, Spaniards used to work in Germany or France and would send money 'home'. (Perhaps they are doing it again). However, the British didn't come to Spain to make money and send it back home to mum. Yes, I'm sure that HBG can find one that does, but to join the Spanish impression that we all do (why on earth would we all be here otherwise?) is both wrong and silly.
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:44 pm
#73
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 178
Re: Andalucia demolitions
I suppose out of 1million ( correct nr ?) of British expats, 95% of them are pensioners spending their pension in Spain, and that's it.
As for demolitions, looks like this is one big reason why prices will keep falling or could be falling another 15-25% over next 2-3years, with exceptions as always. I truely believe there's a hidden agenda to affect the market though (control prices ? demolish but then restart building houses to improve unemployment?)
Renting is a good option probably. rent and save more instead of risking buying something that risks being demolished and paying property tax for nothing and other expences.
As for demolitions, looks like this is one big reason why prices will keep falling or could be falling another 15-25% over next 2-3years, with exceptions as always. I truely believe there's a hidden agenda to affect the market though (control prices ? demolish but then restart building houses to improve unemployment?)
Renting is a good option probably. rent and save more instead of risking buying something that risks being demolished and paying property tax for nothing and other expences.
Oct 23rd 2013, 3:25 pm
#74
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Andalucia demolitions
I suppose out of 1million ( correct nr ?) of British expats, 95% of them are pensioners spending their pension in Spain, and that's it.
As for demolitions, looks like this is one big reason why prices will keep falling or could be falling another 15-25% over next 2-3years, with exceptions as always. I truely believe there's a hidden agenda to affect the market though (control prices ? demolish but then restart building houses to improve unemployment?)
Renting is a good option probably. rent and save more instead of risking buying something that risks being demolished and paying property tax for nothing and other expences.
As for demolitions, looks like this is one big reason why prices will keep falling or could be falling another 15-25% over next 2-3years, with exceptions as always. I truely believe there's a hidden agenda to affect the market though (control prices ? demolish but then restart building houses to improve unemployment?)
Renting is a good option probably. rent and save more instead of risking buying something that risks being demolished and paying property tax for nothing and other expences.
and those who pay IBI and Basura are doing so because they are using those services, it has nothing to do with their being parked illegally.
however it would be nice to see a few abogado's getting their own personal day in court.
do they just pay up to keep people quiet ??
`
Oct 23rd 2013, 3:30 pm
#75
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053