Another demolition hits the headlines.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/retired-bri...4.html#oWx3Iqb

The Spanish developer who built the property has been handed a suspended jail sentence.

Local mayor Pedro Llamas also illegally authorised the supply of water and electricity to the four houses and failed to halt the build.

Llamas challenged his conviction but the supreme court upheld a two year suspended prison sentence and he was forced to give up public office for 23 months.

Pathetic

Yes, in the article is also says the police visited the site several time while it was being built, and told him to stop, but nothing more was doen, so a 73 year old man and his wife have lost all thei savings and returned to the UK, the builder has been told to repay the money, but has declared himself bankrupt.

I would hang them both, then force a sale of any of his or spouses property or any property he may have passed on to another relative. I would take them for every last peseta.

Yes. If they can examine asset transfers in the year before death (as they are planning to do) then surely they can do the same in cases like this.

what a surprise (not)
but then that also happens in other countries like the UK

when do the abogado(s) and notary go to court
- they all failed in their duty as this property and the others were built on National Park land so protected from development - which is why they had no water and electricity.

The shysters that are abogados are the very same that advise the other less qualified professionals how to defend themselves.

What these charlatans do is much much more than make a few quid selling/processing a dodgy property.

They destroy peoples lives. They destroy dreams and hopes.

The long planned and funded retirement turns into a nightmare at the hands of 2 or 3 bent operators.

Many Spaniards have grown rich on the back of the British, selling land they could do nothing with (agriculturally) to developers.

Before foreign investment arrived in Spain in the seventies it was by any measure a shit hole.

Its people were poor and desperate. And then came the tourists lured by smart advertising agencies.

Prices were cheap by comparison, services were to put it mildly basic, flight operators were emerging, drink measure were large, Mediterranean men were tanned and handsome, charming and willing. In a nutshell the British were hooked.

Bigger and better hotels were built, menus were adapted, locals learnt English. It was a done deal.

Then the Brits decided/were able to relocate to Spain full time, following Spain's accession to the EU.

Several Spaniards realized very quickly that their crap acres of land was suddenly worth a few quid. Good on them I say for spotting the opportunity. And yes I did meet such a guy in Nerja a good few years ago who drove a 500 SL Mercedes who couldn't even write his name.

Literacy does not define a man but he and his family became wealthy beyond their wildest dreams because of the demand created. No effort or skill on their part but merely a question of right land right time.

And so we come full circle;

The push for more and more housing to meet the never (seemingly) ending demand from north European buyers required more and more land to be available to build on.

The Spanish have long classified their land as either urban, agricultural or whatever. This fact is well known to the average Spaniard let alone those qualified to legally act in these matters.

Demand pushed the boundaries. Add in the endemic corruption that is the Spanish way and you have the perfect shitstorm.

I have yet to see or hear about a Spaniard buying an illegal property in the UK.

I have yet to hear about a local authority in the UK providing services (basura etc.) to an illegally built house in the UK.

I have yet to hear about a mortgage provider accused of lending money for the purchase of an illegally built house in the UK.

Spain has in my opinion two major problems:

Firstly, it is part of the national psyche to avoid taxation and regulation.

This serves only to deprive Governments of income, it benefits the successful and punishes many.

Secondly. it is part of the national psyche to avoid blame.

It is never anyone's responsibility. Every thing is 'because' or 'someone else's fault'

The Spanish complain incessantly about their institutions but do nothing. They are afraid of them.

The people are cowed, they are afraid of the Police, they don't trust their elected officials at any level. And this, a modern European democracy.

Spain will continue to attract the dreamers, the escapees and the crooks but the decent money will move elsewhere.

The oft debated topics regarding pension payments, WFA and other payments, provision of health care, tax regimes, declaration of assets etc. will no doubt continue.

The simple question is;

Does Spain want our money or not? Because that's what it boils down to.

If not, fine. Tell us, coastal towns/cities can return to their previous existence. They can re-learn lost skills, mend their fishing nets, knock down the ugly buildings, strip the tarmac from the roads witness the closure of many of their shops and facilities. Quite frankly it's up to them.

If yes, fine. Then behave like a good host.

The publicity that Spain is attracting at the moment makes it appear as a hostile environment.

It is well documented and considered that the 'Spanish property boom' and the eventual collapse of that market was to blame for Spain's current economic woes. This is misleading. Spain did (for many years) very well from the demand for property. They (successive Spanish Governments) reaped huge rewards and turned a blind eye to the many unorthodox practices that were occurring whilst simultaneously spectacularly failing to collect due revenues.

Spain is in a mess of its own making. I have no doubt it will recover. My fear is if when it emerges it will have learnt any lessons. Recent history suggests not.

Corruption is by far the greatest problem that Spain faces. It won't significantly change anytime soon. Corruption like most vices is endemic.

Unfortunately for the Spanish, corruption is akin to a national sport.

Stuboy, I commend you for presenting a well-written post on a subject you've researched. What a good opportunity for further discussion, but it's a rather lengthy topic - an ancient country which conquered half the world and written about by a member of another ancient country which conquered the other half, resulting in 800 million people speaking Spanish and another 800 million speaking English.

Where did it all go wrong?

Both countries now belong to the EU, a sensible concept now that the former savages from the East are ravaging the financial world, and Spain or the UK wouldn't stand a chance of competing of their own.

But this is about house demolition in Spain and Spanish corruption at high levels. I believe the sort of corruption we are seeing is a result of the Franco years, an unnatural period in the history of Spain. The country is just emerging from them and it will take a few more years before it adjusts.

And that obscene 170K mansion on a Spanish hillside should never have been built. And everyone concerned in building it should be punished. And demolition really was the only sensible alternative to the whole debacle. And it may stop the next mansion springing up where it doesn't belong.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, it is one of the best written on this subject.

But I would like to put a "Spanish slant" on things, using my inside knowledge so to speak.

Paying taxes in Spain for a lot, is a national sport, but even the mot humble pay taxes that are totally unavoidable.

And in my mind the Spanish taxman takes a lot more than the English equivalent. The only thing hacienda grabs their share upfront.

Compare a property in both countries, at lets say 100k.

To buy a house in the UK f that amount would cost 100k plus solicitors fees of maybe another 1200 pounds.

The same house in Spain would incur a lot more cost for notaries, solicitors, and about 6 or 7k straight to the tax man. Upfront no chance of avoidance.

When the house in the UK sell for 120k in few years time, the new owner will pay 120k plus maybe another 1500 for solicitors (allowing for inflation)
No extra will be added on for the taxman.

The 120k house in Spain at the price of 120, would attract the usual legal fees, and also about 8 or 9k in tax.

When the joint owner of the now 200k house in UK (their only asset)in the UK (allowing for price rises) dies and leaves this his half of the house to his widow she pays nothing to inherit her share.

When the Spanish man dies and leaves his half of the house to his wife, then the widow has to pay IHT to have ownership of her own home. I have no idea how much that would be but lets say 15k.

When the English widow dies and her only child inherits they house that is now worth 320k, the heir would pay nothing in IHT as the amount is below the threshold.

The same only child who inherits from the Spanish mother now has to pay IHT on the 320k property, let us say that amounts to 40k (once again, pure guestimate). If the tax cannot be paid the inheritance tax can be taken by the state and the "heir" gets zilch.

So on what was originally a house worth 100k in both counties, the UK taxman does not get a penny, for the buying, selling and inheriting of it.

The 100k house, with a few sales and a couple of deaths nets hacienda around 70k (again a pure guess).

So knowing that when you die your partner/child may not have the money to pay IHT and could risk losing everything, would any of you not want to prepare by having a "nest egg" for such occasions.

BTW this tax that hacienda take goes for all assets, including cars and boats.

So in many cases, when a wife inherits what to all intents and purpose is the family car, she will have to pay a nice little chunk to hacienda.

If the threat of a "BAIL IN" can make CMAN write a totally out of character post saying if it happens he will do all he can not to pay taxes, then maybe you can understand why the Spanish do all they to do the same.

Before I get pulled up, I do not mean All Spanish people, so please not comments about "sweeping statements", I have learned though other thread that it is wise to put a quantifier when talking about any "group" of people.

Corruption was endemic in Spain long before Franco came on the scene.

Must be something in the genes I reckon.

Or the lack of something in the jeans

Stuboy, that's an excellent post. You should go freelance, sell it to the Telegraph

Many a true word......

I'll second that.

Sounds like you were eavesdropping on our conversation yesterday! We're in Spain at the moment and were having a meal with Spanish friends last night and this was exactly the conversation. The friends have seven properties and they have recently been having financial advice and they were told leaving their properties to their two kids would be like putting a financial millstone around their necks. A quick back of an envelope calculation by the expert said the kids would be liable for taxes in the region of €350,000. No es moco de pavo! He was saying exactly what you are saying, re the system in UK. You and him are singing off the same hymn sheet!