HBG

I know a Spanish family rather well where one parent has died and the remaining one needs palliative care which is provided by the two sons at home. Two commercial premises and two private houses are involved and are being dealt with in the long established, Spanish way.

Hacienda and the other authorities will not be involved.

Neptuno

Stuboy and MeMe's posts should be compulsory reading for all those wishing to retire in Spain! Refer all these"can you give me some advice" posters to these posts.
I would just add that be careful in which region you choose to live, as the 17 autonomous regions have very different rules, levels of taxes, particularly IHT allowances, IBI, car tax and water charges.
Then there's the dreaded 720 assets form,
The fact that what is tax free in UK isn't in Spain, that pension lump sum will be taxed here
The implications of the 183 day rule;the timing of your move to Spain
I heard that for every ex pat leaving Spain, 2 arrive, but I bet those 2 haven't done their homework!
It's nice having better weather, but it's just not worth living here full time now.

Lynn R

What do you mean, now? With the exception of the 720 asset declaration, none of the things you have mentioned have changed in the 10+ years since I started looking for a house here - and with the exception of there being no IHT between spouses in Portugal, they are common to other European countries too.

Yes, the cost of a lot of things has gone up - can you name me a country where the cost of everything has stayed the same, let alone gone down, especially since the global financial crisis began?

If the advice is to everybody thinking of relocating permanently to another country in Europe is that they should forget it and remain in the UK, I think a significant proportion will ignore it. As will those wishing to relocate from other Northern European countries.

If Spain gets a steady trickle of immigrants from those countries from now on, personally I think that would be preferable to another "gold rush" type scenario because as HBG said, that kind of feverish activity tends to attract the sharks who will just prey on those who are so keen to get a piece of the action that they just don't stop to think.

I agree with Rachelk that the authorities should be looking to much more aggressive measures to locate and confiscate the assets of those responsible for effectively defrauding the people who bought these houses, so that compensation can be paid, which they most certainly deserve.

Dick Dasterdly

On paper it may appear that little has changed in many years, but more recent ruthless actions speak louder than any words.

Lynn R

See this thread from BE Portugal for example:-

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=812601

Many people seem to think the position in Spain re taxes and rising costs is far worse than anywhere else. I disagree.

sam54140

Spain is still a faire State for taxes imho.
such as car taxes (search on some other EU States, some have taxes to make you go crazy), gas price, income tax (take France for instance, ouch).
also still a good country for small businesses (corporate tax, employee cost).
the question is what will happen if/once Spain leaves the euro, which is a possibility.
but Spain has to be imho viewed very regionally. chose wisely where to live.
Is this correct ?

Lenox

Until at least the advent of the regional governments, a mayor's word was pretty much law. The power handed out to the autonomies, in this case far-off Seville (six or seven hours by road from Cantoria) took away local power (and, one would say, experience) in exchange for fresh rules, often ecologist inspired, from a distant (and apparently corrupt) Government. How much of Andalucía's budget winds up in far-off Almería (which, worse still, has the cheek to be popular)?
The mayor's job is to bring prosperity to his municipality. There's no tourism or beach or hotels or agriculture in dusty Cantoria. A bit of marble, perhaps... but if no one is building...
The ecologists, those experts in the environment, are city dwellers. they have no practical knowledge of the campo. They are keen to bring their own draconian interpretation to the countryside, but they are merely adding to the 40% unemployment this region has.
We could be like Florida, without the hurricanes! But no, we are abandoning the countryside and moving to the cities (full of bank-owned apartments).
Who should pay? The developer? We know he's broke. Those who ordered the demolition should be held responsible.

sam54140

lenox
his
just read your website businessovertapas, looks interesting.
might subscribe to it in the future. looks like truth-no bs updates.
how are things in costa del sol ?

pete_l

ISTM the basic problem is that Spain lacks a lot of the organisation and efficiencies that the UK has.

For example: taxes. In Spain you are supposed to "magically" know what taxes you are liable for and when/where to pay them. In the UK the system is sufficently well organised that everything is on file and reminders and demands are posted out. That not only reminds, but serves to let the individual in question know that the system has it's eye on them: highly motivating.
So it's no surprise that Spain manages to collect only a fraction of the taxes that it would get if everyone paid what was due.

For housing, the mish-mash of local, regional and central registers makes it impossible to get one single, unambiguous source of information about a house or the land it's built on. What scant information there is about ownership, value, rural/urban status seems to be inconsistent, out of date and often completely wrong.
Consequently it's, again, no surprise that so many people fall foul of (or find an opportunity to exploit) the system.

While most countries have similar problems, Spain seems to be the least able to work itself out of the hole it's in. It seems to me that the spanish psyche is extremely optimistic in it's nature and is always convinced that "it'll work itself out" or "something will turn up" (to quote Mr. Micawber from 200 years ago) - which is no help at all in either trying to make the system better, nor in moving forward as a country.
Meanwhile, everyone just enjoys their siesta, has another drink and then goes home.

Domino

Dick Dasterdly

Somewhat ironical I suppose that in Spain of all places hardly anyone seems able or willing to take the bull by the horns.

Lenox

Even the Nigerian media have reported the Cantoria demolitions!
Nigeria News.
Things aren't good when the Nigerians consider the Spanish property system dodgy! (NB, the 'related news' at the bottom)

sam54140

Le
do you 'think' there's an anti Brit pattern (would Spaniard prefer German expatriates or others?)or it's just good old bad plain corruption by colluding local officials and dirty contractors ?
besides were all these contractors involved all Spanish ?

Lenox

The local contractors were certainly there for the opportunity. I doubt anyone expected Seville to suddenly, years on, intervene to ruin the business and chances for the local towns in the Almanzora Valley.
The houses were marketed to the British. The Spanish, on retirement, either stay in the city or go to 'su pueblo natal', where they'll own a home anyway. The Germans - like any other ex-pat group - will generally move to where their own nationals are: Torrox, a couple of towns on the Costa Blanca and, above all, Mallorca.

Domino

the recent Cantoria demolition(s) were surely inevitable.
the 4 properties concerned were built in the National Park on ecolgoically and environmentally protected land, yes with amazing views but no facilities and poor access. But even 60/70 yo's may want to live totally off the grid

somebody had to do something to make people understand that building properties that had no planning permissions leads to firm action.
although "similar" (or perhaps exactly the same) the building of a house on a piece of played out olive orchard next to other properties with PP is a little bit different.

If this was illegal houses built next to Stonehenge or half way up Scafell Pike people would be clammering for their demolition.
I see no difference.