Hi Andy,

found this and can't find these specific rules mentioned.....can you shed some light on where the details of these rules can be found?

Cheers,
Remy
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FEMA Rules

The Foreign Exchange Management Act, 1999 (FEMA) contains only the substantive and procedural aspects of Foreign Exchange Regulations. The detailed provisions in regard to various aspects connected with Foreign Exchange Regulations are found in Rules, Regulations and Notifications under FEMA issued or promulgated by the Government of India or RBI. Thus, the Government of India, in exercise of the powers conferred on it under Section 46 of FEMA, has made various sets of Rules, namely-

• 4.1 Foreign Exchange Management (Current Transactions) Rules, 2000.
  
  4.2 Foreign Exchange (Compounding Proceedings) Rules, 2000.
  
  4.3 Foreign Exchange Management (Adjudication Proceedings and Appeal), Rules, 2000.
  
  4.4 Foreign Exchange (Authentication of Documents) Rules, 2000.
• 4.5 Foreign Exchange Management (Encashment of Draft, Cheque Instrument and Payment of Interest) Rules, 2000.

Remy,
as far as I can see none of these relate to FN's or property, but if you really want to read them; Google is your friend <g>
A search (I used www.google.co.in) for "Foreign Exchange Management (Current Transactions) Rules RBI" found this link
The RBI also publish a consolidated version of their notifications, usually in July - this is what was referred to in the first pronouncements by the Goan government and afaik is still referenced on the HCI site.

hth AndyD 8-)#

Question: have you actually been told by anyone/advocate why we cant buy/sell register deeds? they all tell you the same thing!!
Answer: all they are telling you that there is a directive issued by the government to the registrars not to register deeds of foreign nationals!
Why? because we are all under investigation for buying property!
Is that correct?
The information i was given makes alot of sense and is the first bit of information that actually makes sense.can anyone tell me different ?
If you have a visa you are certain to leave, if you are NRI or PIO you are uncertain as you dont need a visa.
I am not in the habit of lying or scaremungering and in future i will keep any revelent information i get to the members of this site who are willing to listen and try different approachs ie: challenging this in high court!!BBC etc.

There is a letter issued by the government to the Registrars. Very eminent lawyers in Goa are on record as saying this is unlawful, which is why the State Assembly passed an amendment to the Registration Act allowing them to notify that 'any document or class of document' is not to be registered because it is against the public interest. As far as I know this amendment has not yet been signed into law (it has to be signed either by the State Govenor or - see below - by the President of India). If the Goa government were to 'notify' a class of document not to be registered that the 1908 Act states is to be registered then the notification - or possibly the whole amendment - would be unconstitutional and void. At the very least the amendment would have to be signed by the President of India, and imho she is not likely to do so.
The investigation and the closure of the Registry are obviously linked, but I don't think one is the reason for the other.
I think you are confusing "certain to leave" and "stay for an uncertian period", as I have said before, I am not aware of any clause of FEMA that mentions "certain to leave" and it seems very unlikely that several hundred FN's and a good handful of Indian lawyers would have overlooked it.
If you were told it exists who told you? Ask them for chapter and verse.
There are several groups of people who are actively pursuing this in the High Court - they are doing so at their own expense although if they win it will benefit everybody, quite likely some of the people are members of this site. You will do everyone a dis-service if you withhold important information; on the other hand if you are unable to substantiate your points about "certain to leave" then you should admit it, and withdraw them.

As regards the legal situation I can't do better than refer you to my piece published in the Herald iirc on 28th March. (It's too long to copy in full here unless several people want it).

AndyD 8-)#

Do all your eminent lawyers come from goa, and are they the same one th5at said you could buy property? I have spoken to many advocates here and so have my friends and they have said exactly what the government has done stop registering to FN's because of a directive whether legal or not.
why havent any of those eminent lawyers challenged it and where were all those hundreds of FN's when the petition needed signing?
I was given this information by a supreme court advocate who is going to challenge what he beleives is the problem.
And NO I may have lived here for 6 years but my brain has not fried yet,i'm not stupid and i'm not confusing things, i to do research.
I was given this information verbally and didnt realize i needed a statement to substantiate what i heard, prehaps next time i'll take a tape recorder,so you will not be getting this in chapter and verse as requested by the doubting thomas's.
I shall be sharing any progress made in my situation with the members of this site who are actually doing something- whether be it MP's TV or radio shows.

If you re-read my post you'll see that I pointed out that several people - and their lawyers - are in the process of challenging it, these things take time.

ould that be the same person who has been making a lot of noise about the Scarlett case?
I wasn't suggesting that you were stupid and I'm sorry if you got that impression
but you must realise that you, and we, need a reference to substantiate what you were told - particularly as it is being presented as something completely new or previously unknown.

AndyD 8-)#

a.f.d you can have the last word on the issue of "uncertain and certain" i'm not saying its right but at least its another avenue to follow if such a clause exsists of course .
As for Vickram making a "noise" good for him i'd be shouting all over the world if it was a member of my family, and whether the circumstances were right or wrong a terrible tradegy happened and he appears to be the only one in Goa who is brave enough to challenge it.

The annual consolidated document from rbi is out in draft here

AndyD 8-)#

Any action on the petition yet

I don't believe it has to do with some new clause that none of us know about. I had a discusison with my advocate yesterday and he explained that it was the same FEEMA clause which has already been quoted here many times on the site and by this I mean the words " stay for an uncertain period".

Apparently this has now been interpreted by the authorities to mean as follows: any foreigner ( and I guess this applies to us all ) who has a Visa with a definite expiry date ( whether of 1, 2 or 5 years duration) can be deemed to be leaving India on a known date ( that of the Visa expiry date). Since they have stopped issuing renewals here in the country ( as they used to do before ) we are all forced to exit India at some time and go to obtain new Visas ( whether this is in UK, Sri Lanka or Thailand is totally immaterial). I know this seems to be stretching the logic too far but they are claiming that because we all have to leave the coutnry to do this then our stays here cannot be deemed to be for an uncertain period ( because it is certain that we all do indeed depart to do this).

I was absolutely astonished to hear this interpretation, especially given the fact that as such it seems to rule out any possibility for a foreigner to own property. I think this is a very clever tactic which must be vewied together with the fact that renewal/extension of XVisas here in Goa has been stopped. Put both of these into action together and it becomes impossible for any of us to do things legally.

The only way forward is for this interpretation of FEEMA to be challenged in court. It makes a nonsense to have regulations covering Foreigners rights and obligtions about buying property and transferring money in and out of India on the one hand when on the other hand FEEMA is interpreted in such a manner as to render it impossible for any foreigner on a fixed Visa to comply.

The sad fact is that any such legal challenge may be lengthy and not resoled at a speed we would all like to see.

hi erinsgirl,
I share your amazement at this interpretation since it is obvious that you could leave at any time before the expiry date - which imho makes your stay 'for a period uncertain' - but I have emailed my Goan lawyer to ask if he has heard about this.

AndyD 8-)#

A person NRI or PIO is uncertain to leave as they dont need a visa, or they are married to a indian, a person with a visa has to eventually leave to renew that visa so he/she is certain to leave.!!!!!

I agree 100% with the previous comment. All of us with Visas are certain to leave so can never fulfil the requirement of staying for an uncertain period. I am just asking how come no one knew this before ( I certainly didn't ) or was advised of this before? Why are there regulations governing foreigners buying property if we never can do so? There is no point bothering to do 183 plus days residence then, is there? so why have a requirement for something that is meaningless ?what is the point of it?

Only the government can answer that question, My friends have been to the DofE recently and they were told it was investigating only the finance side of things, they had previously sold a property and the director wanted to know what they had done with the 10lach difference they said it was in the bank here and gave him bank statements to prove this, my friend then asked if his home would be confistcated director said no because he can prove where his money came from and what he'd spent it on.
He told them its all to do with black/white money but they have forgotten even the indians deal with black money in its cores.
At the end of the day they dont want us here any more, they have made their money, attitudes have changed here and not for the better and unfortunately we are getting the backlash

just my opinion, but I think you are confusing 'uncertain' with 'indefinite'. The word 'indefinite' in common usage has a meaning of 'unlimited', 'uncertain' does not have this meaning - the oed definition is 'not certainly knowing or known'. There is also a specific legal use, e.g. in tenancies where a tenancy or lease for say five years is said to be 'for a period certain' whereas a weekly (i.e. week by week) tenancy is 'for a period uncertain'.
imho neither of these meanings for 'uncertain' would exclude people who require a visa (and btw a PIO card is a 15 year visa).
Also it is important to note that nowhere in FEMA or the RBI reg.s is the phrase 'certain to leave' used.

erinsgirls asks well only in Goa** is there any problem for resident FN's buying property.
(** also Jammu & Kashmir and some northern frontier states - but that is for a different reason)

AndyD 8-)#