Scottish Independence
#196
Minimum of 40%: so, if it is at that minimum, then just 20.01% can decide the fate of 100%. That's not democracy..this makes no sense.
4.2 million registered to vote, a current minimum of 40% of those favor yes. Voter turn out is expected to be 80% ish. 20% of what mate? I dont follow.
Across all groups: Did someone advocate that it shouldn't be? I hardly think that it includes all income ranges is something to brag about. And what makes it more stupid is that non-Brits who live there get to vote: how can that be right? We're not talking about a 4-year political tenure, we're talking about the breaking up of a country.
you said a narrow group i'm merely pointing out yes voters spread across all demographics apart from the over 65's who heavily favour no.
Excluding the over 65's: Sorry--being over 65 precludes you from having a say in your country's destiny? Who ****ing frigged that?
Justification: Absolutely simple: the UK is a union, so why should just one group have the right to destroy it. On that basis the Outer Hebridies have exactly the same right to vote for their independence, but will Salmon allow that? Or look at it this way: would it be right for the English and N Irish to have a referendum on leaving rUK and making Wales go it alone?
4.2 million registered to vote, a current minimum of 40% of those favor yes. Voter turn out is expected to be 80% ish. 20% of what mate? I dont follow.
Across all groups: Did someone advocate that it shouldn't be? I hardly think that it includes all income ranges is something to brag about. And what makes it more stupid is that non-Brits who live there get to vote: how can that be right? We're not talking about a 4-year political tenure, we're talking about the breaking up of a country.
you said a narrow group i'm merely pointing out yes voters spread across all demographics apart from the over 65's who heavily favour no.
Excluding the over 65's: Sorry--being over 65 precludes you from having a say in your country's destiny? Who ****ing frigged that?
Justification: Absolutely simple: the UK is a union, so why should just one group have the right to destroy it. On that basis the Outer Hebridies have exactly the same right to vote for their independence, but will Salmon allow that? Or look at it this way: would it be right for the English and N Irish to have a referendum on leaving rUK and making Wales go it alone?
#197
Hit 16's










Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,109
From: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine











I think it could really hurt the Scottish tourism industry, too. I don't know what percentage of tourists there are English, but I guess its fairly high. I believe there will be considerable acrimony for many years to come, with a lot of English taking their bat and ball home.
Frankly, I really don't understand it, given the devolved powers.
Frankly, I really don't understand it, given the devolved powers.
#198
Hit 16's










Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,109
From: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine











yes the Hebrides have the same right. Salmond is not the people of scotland nor is the referendum about him and given his lies even with a yes vote he may not be Scotlands 1st prime minister. the one group have a right because a devolved parliament put it together honoring an election pledge and Westminster Ok'd it 2 years ago. if you have an issue then you should have paid attention two years ago and brought it up at some point with your mp in that time.
Hadn't realised over 65's can't vote--surely that's not right.
Agree that now's not really the time to bicker about how the referendum is constituted, but my MP in Abu Dhabi wasn't often contactable 2 years ago.
I'm just really sad that a break-up is a distinct possibility. I find it hard to believe that the majority, in possession of all the facts and not stirred and swayed by politicking, would vote Yes. I know nationalism runs deep with many Scots, and that's fine, but I don't see why that can't be maintained within the union. And I genuinely fear that both sides will suffer economically and in many other ways.
#199
Account Closed








Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,706
From: Dubai, working at Dust World Central











yes the Hebrides have the same right. Salmond is not the people of scotland nor is the referendum about him and given his lies even with a yes vote he may not be Scotlands 1st prime minister. the one group have a right because a devolved parliament put it together honoring an election pledge and Westminster Ok'd it 2 years ago. if you have an issue then you should have paid attention two years ago and brought it up at some point with your mp in that time.
#200
Misunderstood the first bit.
Hadn't realised over 65's can't vote--surely that's not right.
Agree that now's not really the time to bicker about how the referendum is constituted, but my MP in Abu Dhabi wasn't often contactable 2 years ago.
I'm just really sad that a break-up is a distinct possibility. I find it hard to believe that the majority, in possession of all the facts and not stirred and swayed by politicking, would vote Yes. I know nationalism runs deep with many Scots, and that's fine, but I don't see why that can't be maintained within the union. And I genuinely fear that both sides will suffer economically and in many other ways.
Hadn't realised over 65's can't vote--surely that's not right.
Agree that now's not really the time to bicker about how the referendum is constituted, but my MP in Abu Dhabi wasn't often contactable 2 years ago.
I'm just really sad that a break-up is a distinct possibility. I find it hard to believe that the majority, in possession of all the facts and not stirred and swayed by politicking, would vote Yes. I know nationalism runs deep with many Scots, and that's fine, but I don't see why that can't be maintained within the union. And I genuinely fear that both sides will suffer economically and in many other ways.
#201
i can hardly be a yes supporter and not support those turncoat bastards as well
#202
Misunderstood the first bit.
Hadn't realised over 65's can't vote--surely that's not right.
Agree that now's not really the time to bicker about how the referendum is constituted, but my MP in Abu Dhabi wasn't often contactable 2 years ago.
I'm just really sad that a break-up is a distinct possibility. I find it hard to believe that the majority, in possession of all the facts and not stirred and swayed by politicking, would vote Yes. I know nationalism runs deep with many Scots, and that's fine, but I don't see why that can't be maintained within the union. And I genuinely fear that both sides will suffer economically and in many other ways.
Hadn't realised over 65's can't vote--surely that's not right.
Agree that now's not really the time to bicker about how the referendum is constituted, but my MP in Abu Dhabi wasn't often contactable 2 years ago.
I'm just really sad that a break-up is a distinct possibility. I find it hard to believe that the majority, in possession of all the facts and not stirred and swayed by politicking, would vote Yes. I know nationalism runs deep with many Scots, and that's fine, but I don't see why that can't be maintained within the union. And I genuinely fear that both sides will suffer economically and in many other ways.
I just hope that once its all over that the people of both sides realise just how much shit stirring was done by the media and not the people.
whatever happens we will still share the same island, BOTH sides need to remember that one
#203
The Scottish Sun now backing indy, the writing is on the wall.
THE last full week of referendum campaigning has been pretty scary, with lots of dire warnings about the long-lasting financial consequences of a Yes vote.
There have been warnings from John Lewis and Asda about the rising costs of their products after independence.
Obviously it costs more to bring a lorry full of stuff to Edinburgh or Inverness — starting next week.
Tesco was quoted in a Better Together leaflet suggesting prices would rise 16 per cent with independence — a claim bosses were forced to publicly shoot down.
But there are two reasons why the price of your shopping will not rise because of independence. One is Aldi and the other is Lidl.
Tesco profits are down by £900million this year. The big supermarket chains are losing out hand over fist, undercut by the newly arrived chains.
These guys can manage to run a supermarket operation in Scotland all the way from Germany.
So the chances are Tesco can manage to do it from Kent if they really put their minds to it.
But if they are absolutely determined to make sure more people shop at Aldi, a good way to do that would be to make their prices even higher.
RBS and many other banks and financial institutions have made it clear they will flee from Scotland if there is a Yes on Thursday.
The chief economist at Deutsche Bank, David Folkerts-Landau said voting for independence “would go down in history as a political and economic mistake†as large as those which sparked the Great Depression of the1930s.
Just to be clear, this is the same Deutsche Bank which made a loss of 1.153billion euros in only the last four months of 2013.
Roughly half of that loss came from legal fees in America where the bank was forced to pay fines of 1.4billion euros for selling dodgy financial products.
So you may wish to accept Mr Folkerts-Landau’s advice — or you may take the view that he should spend a bit less time fretting about us.
Last month, the London branch of Deutsche Bank was fined £4.7million by UK regulators for financial irregularities in an astounding 29million separate transactions.
It would have been more but, after they were caught, they put their hands up so they got a 30 per cent reduction.
Which is nice but not the sort of thing that usually applies to your average shoplifter.
In December last year, Deutsche Bank was fined — wait for it — £578million by the European Commission for fiddling the Libor rate.
That means they were part of a conspiracy to manipulate the interest rates you pay on your car loan, your credit card and your mortgage.
Can you guess who else got fined, who else was part of the conspiracy to rip you off?
That’s right, it was RBS who were fined £310million.
Do you know who paid that fine? It was the shareholders of RBS.
And do you know who owns 81 per cent of the shares of RBS? That would be you and me.
These people are like criminals — they keep getting caught. They are like inept criminals.
They are so astoundingly bad at their jobs that they actually managed to go bust in the biggest bankruptcy the world has ever seen.
They relied on the rest of us to clean up their mess, continued to use our money to carry out illegal activity and when they got caught, used our money to pay the fines.
Actually I’ve changed my mind. They’re not like inept criminals at all. That’s brilliant. They are masterminds.
But when they come forward to issue their dire warnings on Scotland’s future, I remember that — however clever they are — they still acted illegally.
It’s just possible — in fact I think it’s more than likely — that these people are not speaking with my interests at heart.
A policeman might suggest I should remember to flick the catch on my double glazing and possibly invest in a new lock for the front door.
A burglar is likely to offer rather different advice.
It’s been a scary week but I’m not scared.
I don’t have room in my heart to be scared because I’m so proud of us.
Look at what we have done. Can you ever think of a time when people were talking about politics in pubs and cafés, on the bus, on a train? It’s happening every day.
Could you ever imagine church halls would be packed out night after night with people wanting to discuss and debate and learn and think and plan together?
Yes, Jim Murphy got hit with an egg. Big deal.
One should not have joined if one could not take a joke.
Aside from that, we have come through this with dignity and generosity, understanding and a willingness to listen.
It took Northern Ireland 30 years of bombings and murders and bloodshed and intimidation to get to where we are now.
And we could be on the brink of going an awful lot further with hardly a nose punched.
That is a fantastic achievement by a fantastic nation.
It’s like the Bible says — “Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreamsâ€.
Our sons and daughters are daring to look ahead to a future that will be much different from what we have known.
There is a vision now available to us of a Scotland over the horizon.
These past two-and-a-half years have changed everything.
I look at my kids and I trust them. I’m not scared.
On Friday, we are going to start again.
We either start from scratch on new foundations or we rebuild what we’ve got.
But we have to believe it’s going to be better so, please, don’t be scared.
There have been warnings from John Lewis and Asda about the rising costs of their products after independence.
Obviously it costs more to bring a lorry full of stuff to Edinburgh or Inverness — starting next week.
Tesco was quoted in a Better Together leaflet suggesting prices would rise 16 per cent with independence — a claim bosses were forced to publicly shoot down.
But there are two reasons why the price of your shopping will not rise because of independence. One is Aldi and the other is Lidl.
Tesco profits are down by £900million this year. The big supermarket chains are losing out hand over fist, undercut by the newly arrived chains.
These guys can manage to run a supermarket operation in Scotland all the way from Germany.
So the chances are Tesco can manage to do it from Kent if they really put their minds to it.
But if they are absolutely determined to make sure more people shop at Aldi, a good way to do that would be to make their prices even higher.
RBS and many other banks and financial institutions have made it clear they will flee from Scotland if there is a Yes on Thursday.
The chief economist at Deutsche Bank, David Folkerts-Landau said voting for independence “would go down in history as a political and economic mistake†as large as those which sparked the Great Depression of the1930s.
Just to be clear, this is the same Deutsche Bank which made a loss of 1.153billion euros in only the last four months of 2013.
Roughly half of that loss came from legal fees in America where the bank was forced to pay fines of 1.4billion euros for selling dodgy financial products.
So you may wish to accept Mr Folkerts-Landau’s advice — or you may take the view that he should spend a bit less time fretting about us.
Last month, the London branch of Deutsche Bank was fined £4.7million by UK regulators for financial irregularities in an astounding 29million separate transactions.
It would have been more but, after they were caught, they put their hands up so they got a 30 per cent reduction.
Which is nice but not the sort of thing that usually applies to your average shoplifter.
In December last year, Deutsche Bank was fined — wait for it — £578million by the European Commission for fiddling the Libor rate.
That means they were part of a conspiracy to manipulate the interest rates you pay on your car loan, your credit card and your mortgage.
Can you guess who else got fined, who else was part of the conspiracy to rip you off?
That’s right, it was RBS who were fined £310million.
Do you know who paid that fine? It was the shareholders of RBS.
And do you know who owns 81 per cent of the shares of RBS? That would be you and me.
These people are like criminals — they keep getting caught. They are like inept criminals.
They are so astoundingly bad at their jobs that they actually managed to go bust in the biggest bankruptcy the world has ever seen.
They relied on the rest of us to clean up their mess, continued to use our money to carry out illegal activity and when they got caught, used our money to pay the fines.
Actually I’ve changed my mind. They’re not like inept criminals at all. That’s brilliant. They are masterminds.
But when they come forward to issue their dire warnings on Scotland’s future, I remember that — however clever they are — they still acted illegally.
It’s just possible — in fact I think it’s more than likely — that these people are not speaking with my interests at heart.
A policeman might suggest I should remember to flick the catch on my double glazing and possibly invest in a new lock for the front door.
A burglar is likely to offer rather different advice.
It’s been a scary week but I’m not scared.
I don’t have room in my heart to be scared because I’m so proud of us.
Look at what we have done. Can you ever think of a time when people were talking about politics in pubs and cafés, on the bus, on a train? It’s happening every day.
Could you ever imagine church halls would be packed out night after night with people wanting to discuss and debate and learn and think and plan together?
Yes, Jim Murphy got hit with an egg. Big deal.
One should not have joined if one could not take a joke.
Aside from that, we have come through this with dignity and generosity, understanding and a willingness to listen.
It took Northern Ireland 30 years of bombings and murders and bloodshed and intimidation to get to where we are now.
And we could be on the brink of going an awful lot further with hardly a nose punched.
That is a fantastic achievement by a fantastic nation.
It’s like the Bible says — “Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreamsâ€.
Our sons and daughters are daring to look ahead to a future that will be much different from what we have known.
There is a vision now available to us of a Scotland over the horizon.
These past two-and-a-half years have changed everything.
I look at my kids and I trust them. I’m not scared.
On Friday, we are going to start again.
We either start from scratch on new foundations or we rebuild what we’ve got.
But we have to believe it’s going to be better so, please, don’t be scared.
#204
Hit 16's










Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,109
From: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine











I don’t have room in my heart to be scared because I’m so proud of us.
Look at what we have done. Can you ever think of a time when people were talking about politics in pubs and cafés, on the bus, on a train? It’s happening every day.
Could you ever imagine church halls would be packed out night after night with people wanting to discuss and debate and learn and think and plan together?
If that's how the result is arrived at, then fine.
Look at what we have done. Can you ever think of a time when people were talking about politics in pubs and cafés, on the bus, on a train? It’s happening every day.
Could you ever imagine church halls would be packed out night after night with people wanting to discuss and debate and learn and think and plan together?
If that's how the result is arrived at, then fine.
#205
I don’t have room in my heart to be scared because I’m so proud of us.
Look at what we have done. Can you ever think of a time when people were talking about politics in pubs and cafés, on the bus, on a train? It’s happening every day.
Could you ever imagine church halls would be packed out night after night with people wanting to discuss and debate and learn and think and plan together?
If that's how the result is arrived at, then fine.
Look at what we have done. Can you ever think of a time when people were talking about politics in pubs and cafés, on the bus, on a train? It’s happening every day.
Could you ever imagine church halls would be packed out night after night with people wanting to discuss and debate and learn and think and plan together?
If that's how the result is arrived at, then fine.
Assuming that there is a big turnout it will probably be the most democratic election in British history with the most informed electorate. Not a bad way to decide the vote.
#206
Hit 16's










Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,109
From: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine











By all accounts the amount of voter engagement is beyond anything that anyone either predicted or could have imagined. I think it's the highest % ever of eligible voters registered well over 90% and an expected turnout around 80% odd. Everyone has been debating this now for months and months non stop, it's all anyone talks about at home.
Assuming that there is a big turnout it will probably be the most democratic election in British history with the most informed electorate. Not a bad way to decide the vote.
Assuming that there is a big turnout it will probably be the most democratic election in British history with the most informed electorate. Not a bad way to decide the vote.
#207
Account Closed








Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,706
From: Dubai, working at Dust World Central











#208
People we have done our own research into things using various sources but starting with both governments own figures. Westminster pretty much has the last 40 years of accounts online if your really bored. There is a huge online community sharing sources etc.
For most though it's the usual tv and newspapers.
Interestingly and I think it was the telegraph that did it but more informed voters tend to favour voting yes.
One thing is for sure, politics in Scotland has changed forever and maybe in the rUK. Voters in Scotland now demand information and sources and a hell of a lot will no longer just accept the usual media sources. Politicians in an independent Scotland will be under the microscope !
#209
If the union wanted a say they should have bloody well said so when they had the opportunity instead of pissing and moaning like it's some ****ing surprise at the 11th hour.
It pays to pay attention to the other party in a union much as it does in a marriage.
This nonsense of what about us is akin to the partner in a divorce who tells the other they can't leave and it isn't over.
#210
Hit 16's










Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,109
From: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine














