Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Dec 3rd 2013, 10:25 am
#1531
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Some interesting posts today. My own opinion is that most of the western economies and their citizens have lived above their means for far too long and a drop in their standards of living is inevitable, gradual, but inevitable. The 'Lump of Labour Fallacy' is oft quoted, and it may well have been creditable in the past, but I don't think it holds true in the UK of today due to some of the points raised in the posts by PistolPete, & Bigglesworth above.
I'm still looking at returning to the UK as a retiree. Would I return if I needed to find work.... NO. Would I return if I had children.....Not a cat in hell's chance.
The UK is still a great country, but, somewhere along the line there will be a reluctant acceptance, if people are honest, that it's not as great as it was and probably never will be again.
The BRIC countries will increase their standard of living and be joined by others at the expense of the western nations that have lived of the fat of debt for far too long.
I quote from a friend of mine....
I grew up in a generation (I am 67) that used adjectives like First World, Second World, Third World, West and East, North and South, poor, rich, developed, under-developed, developing and more to describe their nations and others. They all have two things in common. First, they are no longer adequate or relevant to describe the world as it is today. Second, they were created by people living in formerly wealthy nations who considered themselves and their ways of life to be superior to others. How did they know they were superior? They knew because they were rich and the others were poor. It was all about money.
Today, many of these "rich" nations are drowning in a sea of debt of their own creation, often dependent on the willingness of the "poor" nations to lend them money so their economies do not collapse, but many still act as if they are superior. They have come up with some new terms. Two popular ones are "emerging economies" (or markets) and "advanced economies" (or markets). These terms will eventually die out too. New categories will be created, but they will be chosen by today's so-called "emerging economies", not just the self-anointed "advanced economies". Perhaps the one thread of continuity with our past will be that the terms chosen will again be all about money. That habit is simply human and knows no national boundaries.
I mention this often in my reports not as an insult to my home nation, the US, or any other formerly "First World" or "Second World" nation. They are all great nations in their own right, but they should no longer consider themselves superior simply on the basis of their past. They also have to come to grips with the present. Many "classes" of humanity understand this shift and have moved globally - the rich in search of comfort or security, the working poor in search of a job, criminals in general, terrorists in general, refugees in general. I think it can be argued that the "criminal class" is the most globalized class on earth as it shows absolutely no respect for national borders and never has.
I'm still looking at returning to the UK as a retiree. Would I return if I needed to find work.... NO. Would I return if I had children.....Not a cat in hell's chance.
The UK is still a great country, but, somewhere along the line there will be a reluctant acceptance, if people are honest, that it's not as great as it was and probably never will be again.
The BRIC countries will increase their standard of living and be joined by others at the expense of the western nations that have lived of the fat of debt for far too long.
I quote from a friend of mine....
I grew up in a generation (I am 67) that used adjectives like First World, Second World, Third World, West and East, North and South, poor, rich, developed, under-developed, developing and more to describe their nations and others. They all have two things in common. First, they are no longer adequate or relevant to describe the world as it is today. Second, they were created by people living in formerly wealthy nations who considered themselves and their ways of life to be superior to others. How did they know they were superior? They knew because they were rich and the others were poor. It was all about money.
Today, many of these "rich" nations are drowning in a sea of debt of their own creation, often dependent on the willingness of the "poor" nations to lend them money so their economies do not collapse, but many still act as if they are superior. They have come up with some new terms. Two popular ones are "emerging economies" (or markets) and "advanced economies" (or markets). These terms will eventually die out too. New categories will be created, but they will be chosen by today's so-called "emerging economies", not just the self-anointed "advanced economies". Perhaps the one thread of continuity with our past will be that the terms chosen will again be all about money. That habit is simply human and knows no national boundaries.
I mention this often in my reports not as an insult to my home nation, the US, or any other formerly "First World" or "Second World" nation. They are all great nations in their own right, but they should no longer consider themselves superior simply on the basis of their past. They also have to come to grips with the present. Many "classes" of humanity understand this shift and have moved globally - the rich in search of comfort or security, the working poor in search of a job, criminals in general, terrorists in general, refugees in general. I think it can be argued that the "criminal class" is the most globalized class on earth as it shows absolutely no respect for national borders and never has.
Isn't this what we've been 'talking' about:
UK educational performance ‘stagnating’
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/34e54...#axzz2mJdqSUUJ
for Guardianistas if you have trouble getting into the FT:
http://www.theguardian.com/education...cd-pisa-report
the sorry state of education standards in the UK in the areas of English, Maths and the Sciences and particularly at the highest levels.
Last edited by Pistolpete2; Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:27 am.
Dec 3rd 2013, 10:48 am
#1532
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Any which way you try to spin it, and there are plenty of different ways to look at it in the actual article, this is exactly why things are getting out of control on the demand side:
Biggest drop in savings for 40 years, Bank of England figures reveal
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...es-reveal.html
Spend yourselves into oblivion!
“The figures are desperately worrying. People are stopping saving for the long term because all the policies of the last few years mean you would be a mug to save.
The problem is no economy can thrive in the long run without people saving. You can’t run it on borrowing and debt, you need to save and invest for the future. If you just withdraw money and spend you are talking about a recipe for long-term economic decline.”
“The problem the Treasury have is that they want us to spend, and at the same time taxing accumulated savings must look quite attractive given the state of the public finances. That’s why they have continually nibbled away at pensions. I just hope that they leave pensions alone in the Autumn Statement. We need stability.”
Biggest drop in savings for 40 years, Bank of England figures reveal
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...es-reveal.html
Spend yourselves into oblivion!
“The figures are desperately worrying. People are stopping saving for the long term because all the policies of the last few years mean you would be a mug to save.
The problem is no economy can thrive in the long run without people saving. You can’t run it on borrowing and debt, you need to save and invest for the future. If you just withdraw money and spend you are talking about a recipe for long-term economic decline.”
“The problem the Treasury have is that they want us to spend, and at the same time taxing accumulated savings must look quite attractive given the state of the public finances. That’s why they have continually nibbled away at pensions. I just hope that they leave pensions alone in the Autumn Statement. We need stability.”
Last edited by Pistolpete2; Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:50 am. Reason: on the demand side
Dec 3rd 2013, 11:45 am
#1533
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
The biggest growth area in the UK economy right now is in Business Services, much of it exported.
Per PWC, this is what comes under the business service umbrella:
http://www.pwc.co.uk/business-servic...tors.jhtml#bpo
Per PWC, this is what comes under the business service umbrella:
http://www.pwc.co.uk/business-servic...tors.jhtml#bpo
Dec 3rd 2013, 2:42 pm
#1534
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Indeed. For those who missed it and for those who didn't understand it the first time. In layman's terms, it brings home the reality of the massive global economic and social changes that are happening throughout the world. The west has had it far too easy for far too long. Probably won't affect the baby boomers unless pensions get hit ( or they have to spend their savings to survive ), but it sure as hell will affect their children and grandchildren.
Dec 3rd 2013, 3:04 pm
#1535
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Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Indeed. For those who missed it and for those who didn't understand it the first time. In layman's terms, it brings home the reality of the massive global economic and social changes that are happening throughout the world. The west has had it far too easy for far too long. Probably won't affect the baby boomers unless pensions get hit ( or they have to spend their savings to survive ), but it sure as hell will affect their children and grandchildren.
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
Dec 3rd 2013, 3:08 pm
#1536
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Posts: 29,870
Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
yer reckon that you are going to worry yourself to death at some point?
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
Dec 3rd 2013, 3:38 pm
#1537
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Location: The sunshine state
Posts: 1,358
Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
yer reckon that you are going to worry yourself to death at some point?
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
Dec 3rd 2013, 10:54 pm
#1538
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 140
Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
The biggest growth area in the UK economy right now is in Business Services, much of it exported.
Per PWC, this is what comes under the business service umbrella:
http://www.pwc.co.uk/business-servic...tors.jhtml#bpo
Per PWC, this is what comes under the business service umbrella:
http://www.pwc.co.uk/business-servic...tors.jhtml#bpo
I was recently on a senior leadership course and part of it discussed business strategy for plc UK. Business services such as knowledge services which include engineering, design, technology give higher returns for investment against primary industries such as farming.
Not only do business services underpin the workings of British business, they are also one of the UK’s biggest economic strengths. Britain’s business services sector is one of the most competitive in the world, generating large net exports and bringing essential flows of money into the UK.
It accounts for over a fifth of UK output, and 1 in 8 jobs, having created
1.8 million jobs since 1970. If the UK is to achieve a stable and lasting recovery, it must be led in large part by the business services sector.
The government must ensure that changes to higher education funding do not reduce the supply of graduates, that businesses have incentives to invest in knowledge, and that business service firms can export more and more of their services overseas.
I have encouraged my sons to do their master degrees in STEM subjects that are knowledge based, that opens them to a global employment market.
hudd
Dec 4th 2013, 7:30 am
#1539
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Posts: 9,910
Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
yer reckon that you are going to worry yourself to death at some point?
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
As individuals should we worry about any of this what you posted or just 'Carry on & keep calm'?
I'd bet to guess that before you emigrated that you'd never known owt about 'massive global economic and social changes' just more concern about making a better life of it than staying in the UK .... 'OZ, here we come - UK good riddance.
Sit back relax with family have a BBQ and a few swigs of your favourite brew - tomorrow is another day
Dec 4th 2013, 10:27 am
#1540
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Pistolpete2
I was recently on a senior leadership course and part of it discussed business strategy for plc UK. Business services such as knowledge services which include engineering, design, technology give higher returns for investment against primary industries such as farming.
Not only do business services underpin the workings of British business, they are also one of the UK’s biggest economic strengths. Britain’s business services sector is one of the most competitive in the world, generating large net exports and bringing essential flows of money into the UK.
It accounts for over a fifth of UK output, and 1 in 8 jobs, having created
1.8 million jobs since 1970. If the UK is to achieve a stable and lasting recovery, it must be led in large part by the business services sector.
The government must ensure that changes to higher education funding do not reduce the supply of graduates, that businesses have incentives to invest in knowledge, and that business service firms can export more and more of their services overseas.
I have encouraged my sons to do their master degrees in STEM subjects that are knowledge based, that opens them to a global employment market.
hudd
I was recently on a senior leadership course and part of it discussed business strategy for plc UK. Business services such as knowledge services which include engineering, design, technology give higher returns for investment against primary industries such as farming.
Not only do business services underpin the workings of British business, they are also one of the UK’s biggest economic strengths. Britain’s business services sector is one of the most competitive in the world, generating large net exports and bringing essential flows of money into the UK.
It accounts for over a fifth of UK output, and 1 in 8 jobs, having created
1.8 million jobs since 1970. If the UK is to achieve a stable and lasting recovery, it must be led in large part by the business services sector.
The government must ensure that changes to higher education funding do not reduce the supply of graduates, that businesses have incentives to invest in knowledge, and that business service firms can export more and more of their services overseas.
I have encouraged my sons to do their master degrees in STEM subjects that are knowledge based, that opens them to a global employment market.
hudd
Dec 4th 2013, 10:31 am
#1541
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Location: The sunshine state
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Video from The Trussell Trust. Sign of the times, though fair play to all those who go out of their way and take time to care about others less fortunate than themselves. A mixture of what is good and bad about the UK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwEMJiKA6AY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwEMJiKA6AY
Dec 4th 2013, 11:19 am
#1542
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Love your signature Bud, I thought you lived in the US though?
Dec 5th 2013, 9:56 pm
#1543
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Pistolpete2
I am looking forward to the new build programme that EDF are leading in the UK. I still have another 18-20 years until I retire, so I am looking forward in working on the next generation of nuclear plants in the UK. It is interesting to see the Japanese are planning to build BWR's in the UK, which I have only visited and not had any operational experience with, though I have PWR/CANDU experience.
Hudd
I am looking forward to the new build programme that EDF are leading in the UK. I still have another 18-20 years until I retire, so I am looking forward in working on the next generation of nuclear plants in the UK. It is interesting to see the Japanese are planning to build BWR's in the UK, which I have only visited and not had any operational experience with, though I have PWR/CANDU experience.
Hudd
Dec 6th 2013, 7:38 am
#1544
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Dec 6th 2013, 3:51 pm
#1545
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Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?
Something that occured to me this afternoon and I find interesting is that at the moment the automotive manufacturing 'business' in the UK is going from strength to strength and setting sales records etc at a time that in Australia it is well and truly on its last legs. I do wonder what the reasons are for this? Wages in that sector are apparently pretty similar so it is down to efficiency and peripheral costs perhaps?