Marc wrote:
    > Your post is interesting because the French speakers in your story seem to
    > have an expectation that one should present exact change. I have never
    > heard of such an expectation.

In the Netherlands the supermarket cashiers would rather wait 5 minutes for
some old biddy to count out exact change than to spend 5 seconds making
change themselves.

There must be some deep-seated national psychology behind this but I've been
unable to figure it out. Obviously someone with a change drawer can make
change for any amount in a matter of seconds unless they are severely
developmentally impaired. Someone fishing through pockets and a coin purse,
on the other hand, will by necessity take much longer unless they are buying
a small number of items and had a chance to work out the total and dig up
the change while waiting in the queue.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

"Miguel Cruz" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > Marc wrote:
    > > Your post is interesting because the French speakers in your story seem
to
    > > have an expectation that one should present exact change. I have never
    > > heard of such an expectation.
    > In the Netherlands the supermarket cashiers would rather wait 5 minutes
for
    > some old biddy to count out exact change than to spend 5 seconds making
    > change themselves.
    > There must be some deep-seated national psychology behind this but I've
been
    > unable to figure it out. Obviously someone with a change drawer can make
    > change for any amount in a matter of seconds unless they are severely
    > developmentally impaired. Someone fishing through pockets and a coin
purse,
    > on the other hand, will by necessity take much longer unless they are
buying
    > a small number of items and had a chance to work out the total and dig up
    > the change while waiting in the queue.

It is much simpler than that. Change (small coins) costs money. (the banks
charge ( a fee for every x coins) the businesses for coins). So the bosses
of the stores tell their staff to encourage customers to pay in exact
change. Just an hour ago in hour local supermarket I had to pay EUR 32.45, I
gave a 50 and sure the lady asked me if I had 2.45. (which I had and it took
me 10 seconds to fish it out of my wallet)

Sjoerd

Sjoerd wrote:
    > It is much simpler than that. Change (small coins) costs money. (the banks
    > charge ( a fee for every x coins) the businesses for coins). So the bosses
    > of the stores tell their staff to encourage customers to pay in exact
    > change.

Interesting. I would have guessed that the store could maintain its own
reserve of coins. Or they could gather one by purchasing coins from
customers at face value (you know, all the people who accumulate big jars
full of coins in their house and have to argue with the bank to get them
cashed in).

Bizarrely the most logical thing seems to be to provide a flexible financial
incentive for exact-change payment based on amount of coins on-hand at the
store at that moment. That way they minimize their cash-handling expense and
customers get to choose whether or not to help.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

Marc writes:

    > Your post is interesting because the French speakers
    > in your story seem to have an expectation that one
    > should present exact change. I have never
    > heard of such an expectation.

In France, having exact change is appreciated, even if it takes a few
extra seconds to pick out the right coins.


--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Marc wrote:
    > > Your post is interesting because the French speakers in your story seem
to
    > > have an expectation that one should present exact change. I have never
    > > heard of such an expectation.
    > In the Netherlands the supermarket cashiers would rather wait 5 minutes
for
    > some old biddy to count out exact change than to spend 5 seconds making
    > change themselves.
    > There must be some deep-seated national psychology behind this but I've
been
    > unable to figure it out.


Some years ago, in Italy, when I couldn't come up with the exact amount to
pay, my change would frequently consist of a mixture of coins, stamps, and
even one or two pieces of candy. Perhaps there were similar difficulties
for merchants in other countries, with the lingering effect that they
continue to dread having to make change??? Or maybe not, and it will remain
a mystery.
GG



Obviously someone with a change drawer can make
    > change for any amount in a matter of seconds unless they are severely
    > developmentally impaired. Someone fishing through pockets and a coin
purse,
    > on the other hand, will by necessity take much longer unless they are
buying
    > a small number of items and had a chance to work out the total and dig up
    > the change while waiting in the queue.
    > miguel
    > --
    > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
    > Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

In article , Miguel Cruz
writes
    >In the Netherlands the supermarket cashiers would rather wait 5 minutes for
    >some old biddy to count out exact change than to spend 5 seconds making
    >change themselves.


Now, Miguel, is this not a racist, sexist remark? :-)
--
Marie Lewis

In message , Miguel Cruz
writes
    >Sjoerd wrote:
    >> It is much simpler than that. Change (small coins) costs money. (the banks
    >> charge ( a fee for every x coins) the businesses for coins). So the bosses
    >> of the stores tell their staff to encourage customers to pay in exact
    >> change.
    >Interesting. I would have guessed that the store could maintain its own
    >reserve of coins. Or they could gather one by purchasing coins from
    >customers at face value (you know, all the people who accumulate big jars
    >full of coins in their house and have to argue with the bank to get them
    >cashed in).

I get the impression from years of reading rec.collecting.coins that
this business of accumulating big jars of coins is an American thing,
since their notes go down to such small values they don't normally seem
to use coins very much and just put them to one side when they get home
in the evening. For my part, I took £3.36 in coins out of my trouser
pocket when I got home tonight, and they'll go back there tomorrow, to
be used when I buy something. OK, sometimes I'll break several £5 and
£10 notes in a row and end up with 10 or 12 £1 coins in my pocket, but
they all get spent before long.

--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article , [email protected]
    > writes

    > >So the moral of this one is: don't presume the locals can't understand
    > >you!
Marie you have brought to mind a similar but rather different experience.
I was sitting at a cafe in the Market Square in Krakow. It was very
crowded. Then I heard in very clear English, in what I suspect was a
british accent, a shockingly anti-semetic comment. such a comment would
never be uttered in polite scociety in America. At least not without
consequences. I swung around to address the speaker but I was totally
unable to identify which of several persons it might have been.
There have been several less dramatic occasions when English speakers spoke
near me in the obvious believe that they could not be understood by those
around them. In the case of one lady something quite personal.
So your moral is a good one.

"Marc" wrote in message news:...
    > I'm sure you will have some other suggestions and comments but here are
    > mine.
    >
    > I just read yet another post in which somebody expressed concern about
    > standing out as a tourist.
    > I am always puzzled about this concern. Why would one be concerned about
    > appearing to be precisely what one is? Is there something shameful about
    > being a tourist? Here are my observations and suggestions.
    >
    > This strikes me as a peculiarly American concern. It is very difficult for
    > me to imagine a Frenchman, or a Czech, or a Japanese being concerned about
    > appearing to be a tourist. I see such tourists in San Francisco and Marin
    > frequently. No one seems to take undo notice of them. I don't see mops
    > throwing stones at them.
    >
    > Of course one might always be concerned about seeming vulnerable in a
    > dangerous area of a large city. But being vulnerable and being a tourist
    > are not unavoidably connected. Also, this is just as much a concern for
    > locals.
    >
    > Now I will admit that the stupidest tourists I have ever seen, or more
    > correctly heard, have been Americans. But that may be because English is
    > the only language I speak fluently. It may be that if I went on a French
    > speaking tour that I would find that there are just as many foolish French
    > tourists.
    >
    > I will confess that on a tour of beautiful museum in Krakow last year I was
    > annoyed by a German tourist. He lagged behind in each room then always
    > shoved his way to the front of the tour group when it stopped in the next
    > room. The back of his bald head ruined about 6 of my photos. I suspect he
    > is just as annoyingly self-centered at work and at home.
    >
    > The more important question seems to me to be "Are you a good tourist?" So
    > here are my tips for being a good tourist. If you think about it these tips
    > are probably just as good for being a good employee, friend, neighbor or
    > party guest.
    >
    > Make some effort to understand why you are there and act accordingly.
    > It seems to me that one of the most common causes of obnoxious behavior is
    > forgetting ones purpose. Some examples include a man who went to a museum
    > to demonstrate his knowledge rather than to increase it; a woman on a train
    > who wished to demonstrate that her standards of hygiene were superior to the
    > local railroad's. She did this my complaining loudly and repeatedly about
    > them and demanding that her brow beaten husband do something about it; Then
    > there is the person who is travelling for exposure to new things but balks
    > at any experience that is unfamiliar. In the case of Americans you will
    > usually find them staying at the Hilton and dinning at McDonalds.
    >
    > Be courteous.
    > At a minimum this means taking a few moments to learn the local courtesies.
    > I never enter a country without trying to learn to say "please", "thank
    > you", "excuse me" and "I'm sorry" in the local language. In my experience
    > it is almost always appreciated even when I have botched it. Learn the
    > tipping standards in each country and don't be cheap. If you want to save
    > money do it by staying home not by cheating some poor waiter who may make
    > less in a day that you spend on a coffee break. Every tour book has a few
    > paragraphs on local customs. Don't skip over it.
    >
    > Be as self reliant as possible.
    > Buy the maps and books study them a little. For me this greatly increases
    > my enjoyment. Learn the currency and approximate exchange rate. If you are
    > in a city for a few days and using public transport try to learn the routs.
    > You're standing in the bus stop anyway staring at the map. Might as well
    > try to make some use of it while it is in front of you. Try to learn the
    > numbers. This is hard for me, but even a little bit helps here. Locals
    > will expect that you need some help, but don't impose on them more than
    > necessary.
    >
    > Be humble.
    > Don't assume that you are the one who is right if a disagreement occurs.
    > After 15 years I still cringe at the memory of a few words I said in a
    > restaurant in Isla Mujeras, Mexico. I was sure the waiter was being
    > stubborn. Of course I soon realized I was the one who was wrong. This also
    > means asking for help when you need it. I met a couple in Czech Republic
    > who had traveled miles and hours out of their way because they were afraid
    > asking for help would appear foolish. Only the intervention of a Soldier
    > driving in front of them and who was sure they must be on the wrong road
    > prevented them continuing on. This also means accepting what comes your way
    > as a result of your choices. My wife and I once found ourselves at a Rail
    > Road station in the middle of the forest in S. Bohemia. We were 4
    > kilometers from the nearest town, our intended destination. There was no
    > alternative but to walk. As it turned out it was a great experience and we
    > have a lot of fun telling the story of the adventures that followed.
    >
    > Be helpful to others.
    > Just because you are the tourist does not mean you will not encounter those
    > who need your help. I have some Japanese friends today because I helped
    > them carry some heavy luggage through the streets of London on a hot July
    > day in 1967. My wife and I have attended some charitable affairs that we
    > ran across in Mexico, Poland and Czech Republic. What a blast and what a
    > great opportunity to meet locals outside of the normal tourist experience.
    > In all three cases we were the only Americans there. The people practically
    > fell all over us to make us feel welcom, to express their gratitude and to
    > give us suggestions. Now we look for these things when we travel. There
    > are almost always some sort of charitable event every month in every city.
    > Things like Kiwanis or Rotary or Red Cross dinners raffles that sort of
    > thing.

Go to the Adriatic Riviera or any of the Spanish Costas some summer
and see how the Northern Europeans dress, talk and order around their
southern neighbors.

Gary Nichols

"Marc" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > There have been several less dramatic occasions when English speakers
spoke
    > near me in the obvious believe that they could not be understood by those
    > around them.

A bit naive for an English speaker to believe that nobody can understand
them. Perhaps in a village in NE China that would be a safe bet, but not in
Krakow.

Even when I speak Dutch I am always careful, as surprisingly many people
speak or understand Dutch. The story I like is about my Dutch-Chinese friend
who was visiting his parents in Chengdu, was having a tea with local
friends, and two Dutch backpacking tourists were sitting next to his group.
The Dutch people were just talking about what they saw (some positive,
comments, some negative), asking each other questions like "why would the
Chinese do x", or "do you know what kind of shop that is". After listening
for 10 minutes or so, my Chinese friend turned to them, introduced himself
and gave all the answers in fluent Dutch.

Sjoerd

Following up to Judith Umbria

    >Or moral drop the pomposity.... Tomorrow I will do my duty and conquer
    >lunch.

Bravo! Onward to ever greater achievements!

(It did cross my mind he was winding us up, but I dont think he was)
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)

Marie Lewis wrote:
    > Miguel Cruz writes
    >> In the Netherlands the supermarket cashiers would rather wait 5 minutes
    >> for some old biddy to count out exact change than to spend 5 seconds
    >> making change themselves.
    > Now, Miguel, is this not a racist, sexist remark? :-)

Some of my best friends are old biddies! Honest!

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

GG schrieb:
    >
    > "Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Marc wrote:
    > > > Your post is interesting because the French speakers in your story seem
    > to
    > > > have an expectation that one should present exact change. I have never
    > > > heard of such an expectation.
    > >
    > > In the Netherlands the supermarket cashiers would rather wait 5 minutes
    > for
    > > some old biddy to count out exact change than to spend 5 seconds making
    > > change themselves.
    > >
    > > There must be some deep-seated national psychology behind this but I've
    > been
    > > unable to figure it out.
    >
    > Some years ago, in Italy, when I couldn't come up with the exact amount to
    > pay, my change would frequently consist of a mixture of coins, stamps, and
    > even one or two pieces of candy. Perhaps there were similar difficulties
    > for merchants in other countries, with the lingering effect that they
    > continue to dread having to make change??? Or maybe not, and it will remain
    > a mystery.
    > GG

That was a specific Italian problem IIRC. There was a chronic shortage
of coins
some years back, for some reason the banks would not issue enough.
Seems not to be a problem any more with the Euro.

Tom

    > Obviously someone with a change drawer can make
    > > change for any amount in a matter of seconds unless they are severely
    > > developmentally impaired. Someone fishing through pockets and a coin
    > purse,
    > > on the other hand, will by necessity take much longer unless they are
    > buying
    > > a small number of items and had a chance to work out the total and dig up
    > > the change while waiting in the queue.
    > >
    > > miguel
    > > --
    > > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
    > > Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

Sjoerd writes:

    > A bit naive for an English speaker to believe
    > that nobody can understand them.

Americans break records for naïveté routinely. They hear other people
speaking a language that they do not understand, and so they assume that
those other people cannot understand the language they speak, either.


--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Following up to Marc

    > It was very
    >crowded. Then I heard in very clear English, in what I suspect was a
    >british accent, a shockingly anti-semetic comment. such a comment would
    >never be uttered in polite scociety in America.

Or in Britain, (I imagine, not knowing what was said) anti semitism
isnt a recently popular form of "racism" in UK. Black/white racism
would be the most recently acceptable amoungst non-morons, (50s 60s?)
although no doubt Islam gets a hammering over the gin and tonics at
the golf club nowadays.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Fellwalking, photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)