In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    >> No real Irish in London for (I'm assuming) job opportunities?
    >
    >There is a substantial Irish presence in London, as in most major British cities.

I thought so. Just seemed to make sense.

    >In addition to people born in Ireland, many people of Irish ancestry consider
    >themselves to be Irish.

Sound like it is around here.

    >Yes, there are. The problem is the recent proliferation of "plastic Paddy" pubs of
    >the "Scruffy Murphy" and "Fibber Magee" type, with a totally spurious "Irishness".
    >Kilburn has been mentioned as a likely area to find them.

Heh. You can find those everywhere in the US. I was hoping for a bit better.

    >A good place to spend Saint Patrick's night in convivial Irish company might be a
    >Catholic club, the social premises attached to many RC churches. These are members'
    >clubs, but guests can be "signed in" in most of them. Attendance at Mass on 17th
    >March (or the previous Sunday) and a gentle enquiry about visiting the Catholic club
    >for Saint Paddy's night may well find a member prepared to sign you
    >in.

Hmmm. Perhaps, perhaps. Thanks.

-Tim

    > >Ignorance knows no borders.
    >
    > Yes, you're a great example.
    >
    > I'd love, just love, to hear your take on the US's relationship with my nation and
    > other ndn nations, especially given your interesting take on WW2.

what's your nation?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (The Enigmatic One) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected] >,
    > [email protected] says...
    >
    > >While it would certainly be "cheeky," as you say, for Americans living in London
    > >to be celebrating their independence from their host country in traffic-stopping
    > >fashion, I don't doubt that an American traveler could find a celebration if s/he
    > >looked for it.
    >
    > Hell, Americans celebrate their independance in their current host country.
    > Many of us ndns are from nations that fought with the Brits in that "war for
    > independance."

The Brits had very few allies in that war... and those that were... were rented.

jay Wed, Feb 27, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

We gotta put up with it. (Though admittedly,
    > fireworks, fried chicken and beer is not a bad thing to experience.)
    >
    >
    > -Tim
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

    > In the early part of the 20th century there was a very strong movement in the US in
    > favor of colonialism. A great many Americans really wanted to grab Cuba too. The
    > whole Spanish American war was whipped up by this colonialist frenzy and the
    > sinking of that boat whose name I can't remember in the harbor of Havana was almost
    > certainly orchestrated as an excuse for war. America was isolationist so far as not
    > wanting to get involved in major European wars, because that might have been more
    > like a fair fight, but they were quite willing to dominate weaker peoples in the
    > Pacific and Latin America and Spain was an overripe plum at the time, whose empire
    > looked ready to drop into the great American lap.
    >

Yes, but we are talking about DIFFERENT TIMES and the Main root causes of WWII per
Japan. Most industrialized countries (America and Europe) had colonial aspirations in
the 19th and early part of the 20th century. However, Devil is advocating that Japan
and America fought solely because of America's Colonial aspirations colliding with
Japan's which are utterly & completely false. Our isolationist policies applied to
Japan as did appeasement when they invaded Manchuria and China in the 1930's. Finally
that came to an end after Japanese invasion of Southeast Asia and we imposed an Oil
Embargo. hence read above in previous emails.

The lack of knowledge regarding basic human history and how people can twist the
events is appalling. My whole point re; all this is that it is well known throughout
Southeast Asia that Japan still has not come to grip with starting the War and the
nasty things it did during the War. These views are WIDELY held throughout America,
China, Korea, the Philippines, etc. Having traveled and studied in that part of the
world I can definitely vouch for that. Go to your local library and read up. Your
History knowledge is very poor to say the least!

In article <T4%[email protected] >,
[email protected] says...

    >I can't stomach debating with self-proclaimed Revisionist Historians. let's give it
    >up...... or I will throw up.

Oops. Let me translate.

"I can't understand people that don't swollow the same propaganda I
did. Make them stop, Mommy."

-Tim

The Enigmatic One <[email protected]> wrote:
    > craic: A northern-Irish term that conveys the combined sensations of good
    > conversation, good company, good times etc.
    >
    > Huh. Sounds like a term that I need to make part of my vocabulary. Why do we not
    > have something like it around here?

We say "gezellig"!

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

    > >I can't stomach debating with self-proclaimed Revisionist Historians. let's give
    > >it up...... or I will throw up.
    >
    > Oops. Let me translate.
    >
    > "I can't understand people that don't swollow the same propaganda I
    > did. Make them stop, Mommy."
    >
    >
    > -Tim

I guess my propaganda comes from American, Canadian, European, and Far Eastern
Sources. Where should I go study then to get the "real" picture of World Events.

Proactive Search wrote:
    >
    > > Right. What was Perry doing in Asia?
    > Your in the wrong century. Admiral Perry is from the 1850's. Perry was sent to
    > Japan to open trade routes. We are talking about another Century and another time.
    >

You think he existed in a timeless vacuum, with no future repercussions? (I make no
value judgements, but the "present" always owes a debt to the "past" - as will the
"future" to what happens in our "now".)

    > Proactive Search wrote:
    > >
    > > > Right. What was Perry doing in Asia?
    > > Your in the wrong century. Admiral Perry is from the 1850's. Perry was sent
    > > to Japan to open trade routes. We are talking about another Century and
    > > another time.
    > >
    >
    > You think he existed in a timeless vacuum, with no future repercussions? (I make no
    > value judgements, but the "present" always owes a debt to the "past" - as will the
    > "future" to what happens in our "now".)

no, but Perry was sent to open up Japan from it's isolationist self for trade
purposes, but how that started the road to WWII is beyond me other than it started
relations with them as a country. But as a root cause of the War? Hardly.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    >> Huh. Sounds like a term that I need to make part of my vocabulary. Why do we not
    >> have something like it around here?
    >
    >We say "gezellig"!

And where is that, might I ask?

-Tim

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

    >> I'd love, just love, to hear your take on the US's relationship with my nation and
    >> other ndn nations, especially given your interesting take on WW2.
    >
    >what's your nation?

Anishinaabe. The US government calls us Chippewa, however. More interesting,
of course, would be some of the nations that did resist militarily.

-Tim

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

    >> Hell, Americans celebrate their independance in their current host country.
    >> Many of us ndns are from nations that fought with the Brits in
that
    >> "war for independance."
    >
    >
    >The Brits had very few allies in that war... and those that were... were rented.

Actually, most ndn nations saw the Brits as "the lesser evil" in comparison
to the colonies. It didn't hurt that the Brits were paying favors to us ndns
and the colonists were busy trying to massacre us.

-Tim

    > Anishinaabe. The US government calls us Chippewa, however. More interesting, of
    > course, would be some of the nations that did resist militarily.

Native American? Well, the white man has been screwing you for Centuries. Need
I say more?

I never understood how Christopher Columbus discovered America when it was already
inhabited ;o)

In article <[email protected]>,
"Proactive Search" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > > Anishinaabe. The US government calls us Chippewa, however. More interesting, of
    > > course, would be some of the nations that did resist militarily.
    >
    > Native American? Well, the white man has been screwing you for Centuries. Need I
    > say more?

Sure how bout that the native Americans were screwing each other and enslaving any
weaker tribe that it could exploit long before any white man landed on the U.S..

The implication is the 'we' native americans can enslave and conquer any of our
'own'... but the 'white man' must stay clear. The problem is that there is no
collective native american... they come from a broad array of genetic ancestry.

The Native American who is on the U.S. coin dollar was a slave by native americans
and it was the white man who gave her her freedom... paid for it actually.

jay Wed, Feb 27, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > I never understood how Christopher Columbus discovered America when it was already
    > inhabited ;o)
    >
    >
    >
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

    >England, Great Britain, United Kingdom, etc...... Can be confusing at times.

So confusing that the US watched and waited for 2 years while the occupied Europen
countries suffered humiliation, torture, summary executions and starvation? Thanks a
bunch. I lived in Holland for 17 years and when talking to the older people who
suffered for 5/6 long years they have a view of the Americans (of that time) that
does not reflect the "Heroic military and financial acts" which seem to be taught in
American schools. Their questions are:
- if they are so damn rich why did they make us bankrupt our countries to pay it
back.
- why did the Americans reward Germany so generously with economic reconstruction to
the cost of the countries that they occupied. Effectively the aggressor benefitted
most out of the war.
- why did the US troups "take advantage" of so many european women,
- why did the b*******ds wait 2 years before taking any action.

I wasn't there at the time so I can't speak from experience, but I can very well
understand why some older "Europeans" aren't as grateful as the post-war generation
of Americans (who weren't there either) seem to expect.

Brian

"Proactive Search" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Nice geography: 'England'? So you forgot the rest of the UK? And all the people
    > > there who were supported by 'lease / lend' - as in, 'you fight,
    > we'll
    > > give you supplies, but we want paying for them later'.
    > >
    >
    > Oh ok, we can include Wales, Scotland, and Ireland.
    >