PJ O'Donovan

More options Aug 13, 8:28 am
Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty, talk.politics.misc,
uk.politics.misc, aus.politics, soc.retirement
From: PJ O'Donovan <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:28:12 -0700
Local: Mon, Aug 13 2007 8:28 am
Subject: Socialized medicine UK: Most Brits have to win the lottery to
get knees fixed
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Brits need to win the lottery to get their knees fixed

"Being in pain doesn't count, of course. The NHS was supposed to
eliminate the gap between rich and poor but after nearly 60 years the
gap is still a chasm. The poor are still reduced to the role of
charity supplicants

For the lottery multi-millionaire, it must be a difficult choice.
Which little luxury should we go for first - the mansion, the limo or
the world cruise? But for Tony and Greta Dodd, the decision was a
little more prosaic. After recovering from the shock of taking a
2,438,155 pound share in a rollover jackpot, they got straight on the
phone to the nearest private hospital to book themselves in for four
replacement knees.

The couple, aged 67 and 69 respectively, are both on the NHS waiting
list for operations and suffer constant pain. "We're ecstatic," said
Mr Dodd, a retired taxi driver. "As soon as it sank in that this money
was for real we decided the first thing we want is a new pair of knees
each. I've been on the NHS list for six months and up to now I've
heard nothing - not even a proposed date for an operation. "Greta has
only just gone on the waiting list so we were concerned that she would
have even longer to wait. Now we are thrilled to be able to sign a
cheque."

http://www.thisislondon.co.ws/article-23405676-details/OAP+couple+cel...

John Kulp

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:40:38 -0700, PJ O'Donovan <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> More options Aug 13, 8:28 am
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty, talk.politics.misc,
>uk.politics.misc, aus.politics, soc.retirement
>From: PJ O'Donovan <[email protected]>
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:28:12 -0700
>Local: Mon, Aug 13 2007 8:28 am
>Subject: Socialized medicine UK: Most Brits have to win the lottery to
>get knees fixed
>Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
>original | Remove | Report this message | Find messages by this author
>
> Brits need to win the lottery to get their knees fixed
>
>"Being in pain doesn't count, of course. The NHS was supposed to
>eliminate the gap between rich and poor but after nearly 60 years the
>gap is still a chasm. The poor are still reduced to the role of
>charity supplicants
>
>For the lottery multi-millionaire, it must be a difficult choice.
>Which little luxury should we go for first - the mansion, the limo or
>the world cruise? But for Tony and Greta Dodd, the decision was a
>little more prosaic. After recovering from the shock of taking a
>2,438,155 pound share in a rollover jackpot, they got straight on the
>phone to the nearest private hospital to book themselves in for four
>replacement knees.
>
>The couple, aged 67 and 69 respectively, are both on the NHS waiting
>list for operations and suffer constant pain. "We're ecstatic," said
>Mr Dodd, a retired taxi driver. "As soon as it sank in that this money
>was for real we decided the first thing we want is a new pair of knees
>each. I've been on the NHS list for six months and up to now I've
>heard nothing - not even a proposed date for an operation. "Greta has
>only just gone on the waiting list so we were concerned that she would
>have even longer to wait. Now we are thrilled to be able to sign a
>cheque."
>
>http://www.thisislondon.co.ws/articl...OAP+couple+cel...
>


What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.

Doesn't Frequently Mop

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:

>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.

Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Gregory Morrow

Doesn't Frequently Mop wrote:

> Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
> [email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>
> >What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
> >Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>
> Any other illness and you'll be just fine!


Lol...


--
Best
Greg

John Kulp

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>
>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>
>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!

Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.

Doesn't Frequently Mop

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:30:49 GMT,
[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:

>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>>
>>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>>
>>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>
>Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.

Best place to get treated for that is Northern Ireland - in Britain.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Nightjar

"John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>>
>>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>>
>>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>
> Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.

The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
infinite.

Colin Bignell

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>, nightjar
<nightjar@<insert> wrote:

> "John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >
> >>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
> >>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
> >>
> >>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
> >>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
> >>
> >>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
> >
> > Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.
>
> The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
> like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
> infinite.

With 225K MDs, but half of them foreigners, that is serious fundamental
problem... the UK needs to pay more to attract native MDs... but that
is the problem w/ all health care... there just isn't enough coin to go
around.

jay
Wed Aug 15, 2007
mailto:[email protected]


>
> Colin Bignell
>
>

John Kulp

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:26:17 +0100, "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my
surname here>.uk.com> wrote:

>
>"John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>>>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>>>
>>>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>>>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>>>
>>>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>>
>> Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.
>
>The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
>like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
>infinite.

That's the rationing point I mentioned. Kind of undercuts the
universal coverage point. What is the point of having universal
coverage if you can't get treatment? This, of course, is not just an
affliction of the British system but of many. But how does this
denial of treatment differ materially from our lack of 100% coverage
here? Neither get treatment unless acute, which is the emergency room
here.

Doesn't Frequently Mop

Make credence recognised that on Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:15:21 -0700, Go
Fig <[email protected]> has scripted:

>In article <[email protected]>, nightjar
><nightjar@<insert> wrote:
>
>> "John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>> > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>> >>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>> >>
>> >>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>> >>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>> >>
>> >>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>> >
>> > Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.
>>
>> The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
>> like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
>> infinite.
>
>With 225K MDs, but half of them foreigners, that is serious fundamental
>problem... the UK needs to pay more to attract native MDs... but that
>is the problem w/ all health care... there just isn't enough coin to go
>around.

The problem is foreign doctors? What makes all those Aussie, Kiwi and
Seffie doctors such a fundamental problem?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Doesn't Frequently Mop

Make credence recognised that on Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:45:02 GMT,
[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:26:17 +0100, "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my
>surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>>>>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>>>>
>>>>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>>>>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>>>>
>>>>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>>>
>>> Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.
>>
>>The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
>>like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
>>infinite.
>
>That's the rationing point I mentioned. Kind of undercuts the
>universal coverage point. What is the point of having universal
>coverage if you can't get treatment?

You can always get treatment. Why do you say this rubbish?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Me

On Aug 15, 1:30 pm, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:45:02 GMT,
> [email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:26:17 +0100, "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my
> >surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>
> >>"John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> >>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
> >>>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
> >>>>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>
> >>>>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
> >>>>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>
> >>>>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>
> >>> Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.
>
> >>The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
> >>like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
> >>infinite.
>
> >That's the rationing point I mentioned. Kind of undercuts the
> >universal coverage point. What is the point of having universal
> >coverage if you can't get treatment?
>
> You can always get treatment. Why do you say this rubbish?

Well, you're both messing with semantics a bit. The knees are
"getting treatment". But at some point waiting for some extended
period of time for the appropriate surgery, whilst taking some
ineffective pain medication, isn't functionally "getting" treatment,
it's "pending" treatment. Furthermore, in many systems
"treatment" can be had, it is of course "payment" that may
be the problem. The right in this country loves to claim that
"everyone has access" to medical care, which is technically
true. They have no means by which to pay for it of course,
but they do technically have "access" if not functionally.

But if one isn't too semantic about the whole issue, it
is inescapeable that in virtually any system, "rationing"
in the sense of trying to limit who has access to some
treatments, will be a feature. Predominately the degree
of that rationing will be a function of available funds and
the costs of the treatment. More than one person has
pointed out that healthcare costs in the US wouldn't
be nearly so daunting if we could figure out one tiny
little problem. Apparently, for many patients, 95% of
their lifetime costs of healthcare will be expended in
something like the last 2 years of their life.

John Kulp

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:30:34 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:45:02 GMT,
>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:26:17 +0100, "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my
>>surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John Kulp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected].. .
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:24:18 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>>>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:33:53 GMT,
>>>>>[email protected] (John Kulp) has scripted:
>>>>>
>>>>>>What was that about the UK system being off of charity 60 years ago
>>>>>>Blacko? Hope they don't get colon cancer as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>Any other illness and you'll be just fine!
>>>>
>>>> Sure. Like knee replacements. Right.
>>>
>>>The strength of the NHS is in dealing with acute problems. Chronic problems,
>>>like dodgy knees, get put into waiting lists, because the purse is not
>>>infinite.
>>
>>That's the rationing point I mentioned. Kind of undercuts the
>>universal coverage point. What is the point of having universal
>>coverage if you can't get treatment?
>
>You can always get treatment. Why do you say this rubbish?

Missed all the rationing posts didn't you moron? Just how do you get
treatment when it's rationed. Like the knee replacement case in the
UK where the guy had to win the lottery to have it done privately.

John Kulp

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:41:26 -0700, me <[email protected]>
wrote:


>> You can always get treatment. Why do you say this rubbish?
>
> Well, you're both messing with semantics a bit. The knees are
>"getting treatment". But at some point waiting for some extended
>period of time for the appropriate surgery, whilst taking some
>ineffective pain medication, isn't functionally "getting" treatment,
>it's "pending" treatment. Furthermore, in many systems
>"treatment" can be had, it is of course "payment" that may
>be the problem. The right in this country loves to claim that
>"everyone has access" to medical care, which is technically
>true. They have no means by which to pay for it of course,
>but they do technically have "access" if not functionally.
>
> But if one isn't too semantic about the whole issue, it
>is inescapeable that in virtually any system, "rationing"
>in the sense of trying to limit who has access to some
>treatments, will be a feature. Predominately the degree
>of that rationing will be a function of available funds and
>the costs of the treatment. More than one person has
>pointed out that healthcare costs in the US wouldn't
>be nearly so daunting if we could figure out one tiny
>little problem. Apparently, for many patients, 95% of
>their lifetime costs of healthcare will be expended in
>something like the last 2 years of their life.
>

A fact of aging unfortunately. And causing massive problems for all
the developed countries because their populations as a whole are
aging.

Alan S

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:28:55 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>>With 225K MDs, but half of them foreigners, that is serious fundamental
>>problem... the UK needs to pay more to attract native MDs... but that
>>is the problem w/ all health care... there just isn't enough coin to go
>>around.
>
>The problem is foreign doctors? What makes all those Aussie, Kiwi and
>Seffie doctors such a fundamental problem?
>--

You've stolen our doctors? I wondered why my local surgery
is staffed by a Chinese, an Indian and a Pakistani. Who are
all excellent docs BTW.


Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/
latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest