Cyrus Afzali

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:23:41 -0500, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Cyrus Afzali wrote:
    >> More genius responses. How the hell can you argue that 6-1/2 hours
    >> isn't enough time to sleep?
    >First 2 hours are "busy" with a meal and lights on.
    >Last 2.5 or 3 hours are busy with announcements, breakfast etc. Doesn't leave
    >much room for real sleep.

Depends entirely on the airline and the route. You can easily do 6
hours transcon in the U.S. and will be lucky if you get much in the
way of in-flight service these days. But I have yet to encounter a
situation where I'm getting 2 full meals on a 6-1/2 hour flight. I
don't even think I got that on a red-eye from Maui to L.A.

You're using a body of experience that isn't going to correspond with
much of the real world. If you're talking about your own experiences,
that's fine, but they won't jive with anyone who's taken a U.S.
carrier lately. With U.S. carriers, you generally have to hop some
water to get much in the way of food. And people have consistently
said they would rather have a low fare than food.
    >Now, if an airline catered only to seasoned travellers, they'd have the
    >evening meal done within 30 minutes of takeoff, and wake people up only 1.5
    >hour before landing for breakfast and close the lights in between.
    >Unfortunatly, many airlines don't bother closing lights and running a flight
    >as a nightime flight on trans atrantic routes because so many passengers are
    >not seasoned that they feel some obligation to keep them entertained
    >throughout the flight.

Again, this hasn't been my experience. Not sure where you travel or
who you fly. But you're in no way uniquely qualified to make such a
broad generalization that is so dependent on a person's location
and/or carrier.

Keith Willshaw

    > "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >> I fly Delta over the pond several times a year. Often an advance
    >> purchase business class fare is actually cheaper than a full fare
    >> coach ticket. The company I work for only pays for coach tickets.
    >> Often times we have no Saturday night stay (leave Sunday afternoon and
    >> return on Thurs), so we have to purchase a full fare coach ticket. I
    >> went into the boss' office and told him I could save him $150 on
    >> airfare if he would be willing to pay for the extra hotel night. He
    >> said sure since the hotel was around $100/night. It worked great. I
    >> got a day of sightseeing, business class, and the conpany saved about
    >> $50. Of course, the boss was a little surprised when I told him that
    >> he would need to OK me flying paid business which is not normally
    >> done...

I've had the exact opposite, a boss who insisted I fly
in economy even though it was more expensive than
the cut price business class flight I found.

Some people just lose sight of the ball I guess.

Keith

Yaofeng

[email protected] (C. Osbourne) wrote in message news:<1Miod.69542$V41.13640@attbi_s52>...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm going on some long flights soon, and would
    > really like to do some sleeping during the flights.
    >
    > But somehow, I can't seem to get comfortable enough
    > to get to sleep. I'm 6'3" 280 lbs, and the tiny
    > seats are -very- uncomfortable after a few hours.
    >
    > Can anyone suggest a method or even proper drugs
    > I can use to get to sleep so the flights don't seem
    > so long?
    >
    > Thanks for answering here...

Business class. A couple of drinks after dinner, you'll wake up by
the stewardess near the destination after being stoned and fully
reclined in your slumber.

Nobody

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
    > Depends entirely on the airline and the route. You can easily do 6
    > hours transcon in the U.S.

Last I heard, this was not a transatlatic flight.

    > don't even think I got that on a red-eye from Maui to L.A.

Last I heard, this was not a transatlantic flight.

I had qualified by statements to transatlantic between east coast USA.

Geoff Glave

    > I'm going on some long flights soon, and would
    > really like to do some sleeping during the flights.

- If you're a coffee drinker go cold turkey on caffeine for 48 hours
before the flight. No coffee, no coke, no diet coke, no chocolate -
No caffeine :)

- Get some good ear plugs and follow the instructions on their use -
Don't just jam them in your ears, insert them properly.

- Get a sleep mask. I prefer the ones that are the soft cloth.

- Get a window seat, you can rest your head against the wall.

- Wash a couple of these down with a glass of scotch:
http://www.nytol.com/ Do this AFTER you've driven to the airport,
checked in and gone through security, but as soon after that as you
can :)

- Try to get some vigourous exercise (i.e. raised heart rate for 45
mins) the morning of the flight.

Even with all that I still don't sleep too well, but I'm a very light
sleeper and it helps!

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
6'3, 240lbs

Ken Wheatley

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:28:41 -0700, "Ken Blake"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In news:[email protected],
    >nobody <[email protected]> typed:

    >To more the three most important things to help you sleep are
    >1. Eye covering--a blindfold
    >2. Earplugs
    >3. No alcohol.

I couldn't agree less!

Alcohol is a splendid soporific.

I can be asleep during taxi prior to departure, but a beer or two in
the departure lounge helps a lot.

Magda

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:57:16 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, Ken Wheatley
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... I couldn't agree less!
...
... Alcohol is a splendid soporific.
...
... I can be asleep during taxi prior to departure, but a beer or two in
... the departure lounge helps a lot.

Talk for yourself ! Alcohol dries you out and, with the extra-dry air in the plane, when
you arrive your skin is feeling like a piece of parchment.

Devil

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:27:03 +0100, Magda wrote:

    > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:57:16 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, Ken Wheatley
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    >
    > ... I couldn't agree less!
    > ...
    > ... Alcohol is a splendid soporific.
    > ...
    > ... I can be asleep during taxi prior to departure, but a beer or two in
    > ... the departure lounge helps a lot.
    >
    > Talk for yourself ! Alcohol dries you out and, with the extra-dry air in the plane, when
    > you arrive your skin is feeling like a piece of parchment.


Just dilute it. Drink water too.

Jeff Hacker

"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:46:28 -0500, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>"C. Osbourne" wrote:
    >>> I'm going on some long flights soon, and would
    >>> really like to do some sleeping during the flights.
    >>Please define "long".
    >>Transatlantic flights from east cost USA to europe are too short to get
    >>ant
    >>decent amount of sleep. From west coast of USA to europe, it starts to be
    >>long
    >>enough to get a godo few hours of sleep.
    > More genius responses. How the hell can you argue that 6-1/2 hours
    > isn't enough time to sleep? IOW, if you're going to be able to sleep
    > on a flight period, 6-1/2 hours ought to do it.

Most people don't get 6 1/2 hours sleep on a 6 1/2 hour flight. By the time
you take off, eat dinner, and then are awakened for a breakfast snack prior
to arrival, you're lucky to get 4 hours in economy class; less in Business
or First.

Magda

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:06:09 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:27:03 +0100, Magda wrote:
...
... > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:57:16 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, Ken Wheatley
... > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... >
... > ... I couldn't agree less!
... > ...
... > ... Alcohol is a splendid soporific.
... > ...
... > ... I can be asleep during taxi prior to departure, but a beer or two in
... > ... the departure lounge helps a lot.
... >
... > Talk for yourself ! Alcohol dries you out and, with the extra-dry air in the plane, when
... > you arrive your skin is feeling like a piece of parchment.
...
...
... Just dilute it. Drink water too.

Why are you telling *me* it ?

Jeff Hacker

"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:23:41 -0500, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Cyrus Afzali wrote:
    >>> More genius responses. How the hell can you argue that 6-1/2 hours
    >>> isn't enough time to sleep?
    >>First 2 hours are "busy" with a meal and lights on.
    >>Last 2.5 or 3 hours are busy with announcements, breakfast etc. Doesn't
    >>leave
    >>much room for real sleep.
    > Depends entirely on the airline and the route. You can easily do 6
    > hours transcon in the U.S. and will be lucky if you get much in the
    > way of in-flight service these days. But I have yet to encounter a
    > situation where I'm getting 2 full meals on a 6-1/2 hour flight. I
    > don't even think I got that on a red-eye from Maui to L.A.

Transcon U.S. flights are generally closer to 5 1/2 hours than 6 1/2; same
thing with Hawaii-West Coast flights.
    > You're using a body of experience that isn't going to correspond with
    > much of the real world. If you're talking about your own experiences,
    > that's fine, but they won't jive with anyone who's taken a U.S.
    > carrier lately. With U.S. carriers, you generally have to hop some
    > water to get much in the way of food. And people have consistently
    > said they would rather have a low fare than food.

Again, depends on the route. International flights on U.S. carriers still
have meal service - the only thing that has changed is that booze isn't free
anymore on most U.S. carriers. But they do have to compete with non U.S.
carriers, and people still expect food service on an intercontinental
flight.
    >>Now, if an airline catered only to seasoned travellers, they'd have the
    >>evening meal done within 30 minutes of takeoff, and wake people up only
    >>1.5
    >>hour before landing for breakfast and close the lights in between.
    >>Unfortunatly, many airlines don't bother closing lights and running a
    >>flight
    >>as a nightime flight on trans atrantic routes because so many passengers
    >>are
    >>not seasoned that they feel some obligation to keep them entertained
    >>throughout the flight.
    > Again, this hasn't been my experience. Not sure where you travel or
    > who you fly. But you're in no way uniquely qualified to make such a
    > broad generalization that is so dependent on a person's location
    > and/or carrier.

There are some norms in the industry, so I don't think the original poster
was far off. I've flown overnight red-eyes on U.S. and non U.S. carriers,
and inflight service is generally similar (although I admit that certain
asian carriers have generally better inflight service than the U.S.
carriers.

Dave Smith

nobody wrote:

    > "C. Osbourne" wrote:
    > > I'm going on some long flights soon, and would
    > > really like to do some sleeping during the flights.
    > Please define "long".
    > Transatlantic flights from east cost USA to europe are too short to get ant
    > decent amount of sleep. From west coast of USA to europe, it starts to be long
    > enough to get a godo few hours of sleep.

???? It takes about 7 1/2 hours to fly from NY to Paris, but only 5 hours to Los
Angeles. Wouldn't that make the transatlantic flight longer?

Ken Blake

In news:[email protected],
Ken Wheatley <[email protected]> typed:

    > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:28:41 -0700, "Ken Blake"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>In news:[email protected],
    >>nobody <[email protected]> typed:
    >>To more the three most important things to help you sleep are
    >>1. Eye covering--a blindfold
    >>2. Earplugs
    >>3. No alcohol.
    > I couldn't agree less!
    > Alcohol is a splendid soporific.


Alcohol puts you to sleep quickly, but it then usually results in
waking early and being unable to fall back asleep. It appears to
work, but doesn't really.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Devil

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:10:28 +0100, Magda wrote:

    > On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:06:09 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil <[email protected]>
    > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    > ... On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:27:03 +0100, Magda wrote:
    > ...
    > ... > Talk for yourself ! Alcohol dries you out and, with the extra-dry air in the plane, when
    > ... > you arrive your skin is feeling like a piece of parchment.
    > ...
    > ...
    > ... Just dilute it. Drink water too.
    >
    > Why are you telling *me* it ?

Didn't you ask?

I never have a problem drinking on overnight flights. :-).. . And it
sure helps me sleeping. Main problem is, as JF pointed out, from the east
side of the continent, they are too short and one does not get enough
sleep. Which is why from here, nonstops to LHR or FRA are so much nicer.
Unfortunately, when flying Mapleflot to CDG, it's either through YUL or
god forbid YYZ and their transit tax.

(I would rather avoid these eastern places all together. Especially
having just come back from a one day meeting in Ottawa on Saturday, and
going to Montreal tomorrow for a one day meeting on Wednesday. Then coming
back from Paris, next day I have to go to Quebec City for two days.
Following day, I fly to FRA and go visit my mother, after a quick stop in
Nancy, maybe one day, to give a talk to a few physical chemists. Such is
life.)

Nobody

Dave Smith wrote:
    > ???? It takes about 7 1/2 hours to fly from NY to Paris, but only 5 hours to Los
    > Angeles. Wouldn't that make the transatlantic flight longer?

I was comparing east coast USA to europe versus west coast USA to europe.
Someone who doesn't want to read decided I was talking about LAX JFK redeyes.


So, lets make it even more dramatic comparison. Maybe that will avoid wilful misunderstandings.

LAX-Sydney versus Boston-London.

LAX-Sydney is long enough that between service periods, you still have plenty
of iddle time to sleep, especially since airlines such as Qantas know how to
operate "night" flights by turning off all lights a maximum amount of time in
order to allow people to catch as much sleep as possible.