Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
wrote:

> Let is be knownst that on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:39:05 +0000,
> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:
>
> >Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
> >wrote:
> >
> >[]
> >> I would just like to see more parties, and more opportunities to have
> >> a say than once every few years.
> >
> >Plenty of European countries have lots of parties. I'm not convinced
> >that system works much better.
>
> Then more say by the public would stir them up a bit.
>
> Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
> sure don't, and that's a good sign.

No, it's not. Believe me, you don't want to be governed by opinion poll.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:40:27 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
>sure don't, and that's a good sign.

its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:41:08 +0000,
[email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:

>Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
>wrote:
>
>> Let is be knownst that on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:39:05 +0000,
>> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:
>>
>> >Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >[]
>> >> I would just like to see more parties, and more opportunities to have
>> >> a say than once every few years.
>> >
>> >Plenty of European countries have lots of parties. I'm not convinced
>> >that system works much better.
>>
>> Then more say by the public would stir them up a bit.
>>
>> Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
>> sure don't, and that's a good sign.
>
>No, it's not. Believe me, you don't want to be governed by opinion poll.

Why not?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:18:01 +0000, The Reid
<[email protected]> writted:

>On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:40:27 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
>>sure don't, and that's a good sign.
>
>its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
>issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
>personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?

Hard decisions like what? Going to war? Privatising things? Passing
anti-terror laws?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
wrote:

> Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:41:08 +0000,
> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:
>
> >Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Let is be knownst that on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:39:05 +0000,
> >> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:
> >>
> >> >Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >[]
> >> >> I would just like to see more parties, and more opportunities to have
> >> >> a say than once every few years.
> >> >
> >> >Plenty of European countries have lots of parties. I'm not convinced
> >> >that system works much better.
> >>
> >> Then more say by the public would stir them up a bit.
> >>
> >> Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
> >> sure don't, and that's a good sign.
> >
> >No, it's not. Believe me, you don't want to be governed by opinion poll.
>
> Why not?

Because opinion polls are very fickle, even more so than politicians. In
the UK, support for the death penalty goes up after each sensational
murder of a child, for example.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:26:38 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>>its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
>>issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
>>personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?
>
>Hard decisions like what? Going to war? Privatising things? Passing
>anti-terror laws?

raising taxes for a start. When you get away from the headline issues
most people don't know what they are talking about.Can you imagine a
referendum on how to cap (or not) capital or revenue spending in local
government? Most people don't even understand what capital and revenue
are.
Taking your issues how would you make it work? Would you just ask
"should we have anti terror laws" or would you draft a whole load of
alternatives for people to choose?
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
wrote:

> Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:18:01 +0000, The Reid
> <[email protected]> writted:
>
> >On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:40:27 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
> ><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >
> >>Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
> >>sure don't, and that's a good sign.
> >
> >its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
> >issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
> >personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?
>
> Hard decisions like what? Going to war? Privatising things? Passing
> anti-terror laws?

The day after July 7, 2005, who knows what an opinion poll would have
produced? Probably a lot worse.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

The Reid schrieb:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:26:38 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>> its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
>>> issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
>>> personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?
>> Hard decisions like what? Going to war? Privatising things? Passing
>> anti-terror laws?
>
> raising taxes for a start. When you get away from the headline issues
> most people don't know what they are talking about.Can you imagine a
> referendum on how to cap (or not) capital or revenue spending in local
> government? Most people don't even understand what capital and revenue
> are.
> Taking your issues how would you make it work? Would you just ask
> "should we have anti terror laws" or would you draft a whole load of
> alternatives for people to choose?
This is just fantasy, but if I were given he chance to try it out without
fear of real consequences I'd do the following:
- I'd prepare a bunch of simple alternatives, cajole it through the talk
shows (with experts exchanging arguments) and do opinion polls.
- I'd put the top three suggestions up for referendum.
How about that?
Of course, if the populace votes for "print more money" they will
suffer the inflation and learn form that experience.
But that could be more refined, like certain issues requiring a certain
majority, or issues being closed for a number of years before they can
be re-decided and so on.

Lots of Greetings!
Volker
--
For email replies, please substitute the obvious.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:37:09 +0000, The Reid <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Taking your issues how would you make it work? Would you just ask
>"should we have anti terror laws" or would you draft a whole load of
>alternatives for people to choose?

you also would tend to get non joined up thinking, votes to not raise
tax for building prisons alongside increased penalties for some
unfashionable crimal class, hang on, you get that now!

To save the whole country spending all its time looking into
referenda, you could get poiticians to pull together a raft of ideas,
cost them and put that forward for a vote, er, that seems strangely
familiar :-)
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:51:52 +0100, Volker Hetzer
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Of course, if the populace votes for "print more money" they will
>suffer the inflation and learn form that experience.

Hmmmmm, are you in Germany? :-)
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

The Reid schrieb:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:51:52 +0100, Volker Hetzer
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Of course, if the populace votes for "print more money" they will
>> suffer the inflation and learn form that experience.
>
> Hmmmmm, are you in Germany? :-)
How'd you guess? :-)

Lots of Greetings!
Volker
--
For email replies, please substitute the obvious.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:26:38 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:18:01 +0000, The Reid
><[email protected]> writted:
>
>>On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:40:27 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>>>Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
>>>sure don't, and that's a good sign.
>>
>>its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
>>issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
>>personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?
>
>Hard decisions like what? Going to war? Privatising things? Passing
>anti-terror laws?

Whether to tax yourself to fund new schools.

Whether to build more freeways rather than promoting alternative
transportion methods. Etc.

Of course, whether this is good or bad depends on whose ox is
being gored.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:23:21 +0000, The Reid
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 11:17:03 -0700, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>That post seems to conatin an inconsistency: on the one hand the
>>claim is that the candidate with more money will win and this is
>>a consequence of the two party system, and on the other hand that
>>"alternative" (i.e., candidates not of one of the two main
>>parties) can cause one of the main candidtes to lose.
>
>lots of people are influenced by advertising by major parties.
>A lesser number are influenced by an alternative candidate.
>
>Two different forces at work.

Of course.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:35:33 +0000,
[email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:

>Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
>wrote:
>
>> Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:41:08 +0000,
>> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:
>>
>> >Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Let is be knownst that on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:39:05 +0000,
>> >> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) writted:
>> >>
>> >> >Deeply Filled Mortician <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >[]
>> >> >> I would just like to see more parties, and more opportunities to have
>> >> >> a say than once every few years.
>> >> >
>> >> >Plenty of European countries have lots of parties. I'm not convinced
>> >> >that system works much better.
>> >>
>> >> Then more say by the public would stir them up a bit.
>> >>
>> >> Actually I like the idea of governance by opinion poll. Politicians
>> >> sure don't, and that's a good sign.
>> >
>> >No, it's not. Believe me, you don't want to be governed by opinion poll.
>>
>> Why not?
>
>Because opinion polls are very fickle, even more so than politicians. In
>the UK, support for the death penalty goes up after each sensational
>murder of a child, for example.

The death penalty is not a political issue in the UK.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Let is be knownst that on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:37:09 +0000, The Reid
<[email protected]> writted:

>On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:26:38 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>>its bad enough people being uninformed in choosing parties, deciding
>>>issues might be a disaster! People might just vote for short term
>>>personal interest, how would hard decisions get taken?
>>
>>Hard decisions like what? Going to war? Privatising things? Passing
>>anti-terror laws?
>
>raising taxes for a start. When you get away from the headline issues
>most people don't know what they are talking about.Can you imagine a
>referendum on how to cap (or not) capital or revenue spending in local
>government? Most people don't even understand what capital and revenue
>are.

I have never seen a poll in my life on "Should we raise taxes?".

>Taking your issues how would you make it work? Would you just ask
>"should we have anti terror laws" or would you draft a whole load of
>alternatives for people to choose?

Every bill should be able to be vetoed, if enough people care. Also,
these veto votes could be nullified, if enough care the other way.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--