Sudipto

Hi,
I need some tips for planning the overall trip with the following
constraints :-

1.Our air tickets are such that we would be arriving at Frankfurt &
departing via Amsterdam.
2. Approx. 10 days in between
3. We would be travelling with a 5y old kid & a 6 months old baby. So
would like to do everything in a relaxed manner.
4. Primarily intrested in scenic stuff. Zero interest in museums (plan
to visit none).

1. General itinerary I have in mind is to arrive in Frankfurt & go
directly to Rhine valley to Rudesheim. Spend 2-3 days.
2. Travel south & spend 3 days on the Romantic Road taking in some
castles.
3. From here on I am not sure whether to go on to spend some time in
Munich or skip Munich & go on to Strausbug,Austria & say spend 2 days
there. Then go on to Vienna & spend 2 more days. Or just choose only
one place out of Vienna & Strausburg.

So could people comment on the above. Specially my questions are :-

1. Is it more convinient to rent a car or rely on the train. How about
the cost angle ?
2. How to do the Romantic Road. Should I base myself at a place & do
short day trips. If so where do I base myself.
3. How about the Austrian leg of the tour ? Should I go to Vienna,
Strausburg or just skip Austria & stay in Germany going someplace
North. If so where ?


Would really appreciate help in planning the above. This is our first
trip to Germany so probably would be more intrested in the touristy
stuff. However not much interest in big cities.

Juliana L Holm

Sudipto <[email protected]> wrote:

    > 1. General itinerary I have in mind is to arrive in Frankfurt & go
    > directly to Rhine valley to Rudesheim. Spend 2-3 days.

Take one of the Rhine Valley boat tours. I don't know Rudesheim, but I've
done the stretch from Koblenz to Mainz. Very nice. You can easily
base yourself in one place in this stretch, I liked Bacharach very much,
lovely little town, lots of neat buildings.

    > 2. Travel south & spend 3 days on the Romantic Road taking in some
    > castles.

Castles along the Rhine (and Burg Eltz nearby on the Mosel) are much better
for real castles than the ones on the Romantic Road. The Romantic Road, at
least the section from Rothenburg to Fussen, has lots of medieval towns,
Rothenburg, Dinklesbuhl, Nordlingen. Fussen has Neuschwanstein and
Hohenschwangau, Ludwig's nineteenth century "castles" which are neat, but
not castles in the medieval sense of the word. And indeed Linderhof, which
is in the alps but not in Fussen is maybe the most interesting of these.

    > 3. From here on I am not sure whether to go on to spend some time in
    > Munich or skip Munich & go on to Strausbug,Austria & say spend 2 days
    > there. Then go on to Vienna & spend 2 more days. Or just choose only
    > one place out of Vienna & Strausburg.

I've not been to Vienna. Do you mean Salzburg (in Austria) or Strasburg (in
France, on the other side of the Black forest)? I'd not do Strasburg and
Vienna, and I think with 2 kids I'd pick one of either Salzburg or Vienna.

But Munich is close to the end of the Romantic Road, and is a nice place to
go with stuff intersting to kids. You would not do too badly to go there.

Julie

    > So could people comment on the above. Specially my questions are :-

    > 1. Is it more convinient to rent a car or rely on the train. How about
    > the cost angle ?
    > 2. How to do the Romantic Road. Should I base myself at a place & do
    > short day trips. If so where do I base myself.
    > 3. How about the Austrian leg of the tour ? Should I go to Vienna,
    > Strausburg or just skip Austria & stay in Germany going someplace
    > North. If so where ?


    > Would really appreciate help in planning the above. This is our first
    > trip to Germany so probably would be more intrested in the touristy
    > stuff. However not much interest in big cities.


--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Jens Arne Maennig

Sudipto wrote:

    > go on to Strausbug,Austria

I'd go directly to Strausbug and spend the rest of my life there. It's
such a beautiful place.

Jens

Sudipto

    >>> I've not been to Vienna. Do you mean Salzburg (in Austria) or
Strasburg (in

Sorry, I meant Salzburg.

So you are suggesting that I can base myself in Bacharach for 2 days &
do the Rhine Valley.

What about the sights on the RR. Should I base myself in Fussen for 3
days or base myself in Munich & do day trips. Or a smaller town like
Dinklesbuhl, ?

Juliana L Holm

Sudipto <[email protected]> wrote:

    > So you are suggesting that I can base myself in Bacharach for 2 days &
    > do the Rhine Valley.

Yes. It's rather central. I'll also suggest that you consider staying in
the youth hostel in Bacharach. We stayed with our family (much older kids,
15 to 26) and were given a family room, where all of us could stay the night,
with our own bathroom. It's in a castle overlooking the valley.


    > What about the sights on the RR. Should I base myself in Fussen for 3
    > days or base myself in Munich & do day trips. Or a smaller town like
    > Dinklesbuhl, ?

Fussen is the total south end of the Romantischestrasse. I think if it
were I and I had three days, and your interests, I'd do this.

It's too far (several hours) for day trips from Munich with little kids, I
think.

Here's an idea of how an itinerary could go. I've driven between all these
places in the past, so I do actually have some idea of the distances and the
timing. I will say that the Rhine to Rothenburg is your most challenging
day.

Day 1: Frankfurt to Bacharach, explore town of bacharach.
Day 2, 3, explore Rhine Valley. Do at least one day cruising on one of the
steamships on the Rhine. Possibly drive to castles and explore them the
other day. Good castles include Burg Eltz (off the Mosel but not far away,
Burg Rheinfels, Castle Klopp in Bingen, among others. And if you stay in
the hostel in Bacharach, that's Burg Stahlek).

Day 4. Drive Bacharach to Rothenburg, stopping along the way at a few smaller
sights. Spend night in Rothenburg. This is a relatively long day driving.

Day 5. Explore Rothenburg. Possibly do the twilight (English Language) Night
Watchman's tour. It's excellent. Second night in Rothenburg.

Day 6. Leisurely drive down Romantischestrasse, stopping in at least
Dinkelsbuhl and Nordlingen. Let the kids run around in a meadow somewhere.
End day at south end of the Alps, near Fussen.

Day 7. See Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau. I highly recommend that you
arrive at Neuschwanstein for the first tour of the day, then take a break, then
visit Hohenschawangau in the afternoon. That helps avoid the huge crowds at
Hohen schwangau. Spend the night at the same place.

Day 8,9 Drive to Munich and spend two days there. There are a number of things
for kids, the Glockenspiel, the Englisher Garten for running around, the
Victualien Markt to pick up lunch. There's a Center for unusual museums that
has a toy car museum and an Easter Bunny museum.

ALternatively do Salzburg for Day 8 and 9. Don't try to do both.

Day 10. Get back to Amsterdam. I'd try to fly back on a low cost carrier. It
is a LONG drive from Munich. If you're going to drive to Amsterdam then I'd
do this whole itinerarly backwards and end at the Rhine valley.

Check out my travel page. We've got travelogue of some of this.

--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Bb

On 12 May 2005 09:21:23 -0700, Sudipto wrote:

    > So could people comment on the above. Specially my questions are :-
    > 1. Is it more convinient to rent a car or rely on the train. How about
    > the cost angle ?

This is a really nice area for a car. You're not limited to hotels that
are close to train stations, so you can stay in places with great views
and much lower prices. We stayed at a nice place just outside of Fussen,
one of the least expensive hotels on our trip, and the view was this:
http://bbauer.gomen.org/images/fussen_view.jpg.

The car also gives you the flexibility to just go where you want, when you
want. We had some extra time so we took a nice loop through Wies (has a
church with an amazing interior; I'm not much into churches but this one
is spectacular) and Oberammergau (one of the cutest towns you'll see).

You could do day trips from Munich but you'll spend a lot of time in
transit and spend a lot more money. We enjoyed staying in the country and
weren't even planning on going to Munich - we only did so because we had a
day to kill (I left a day open for bad weather, but we never got any!).
I'm so glad we did - it would have been a real mistake not to see Munich.
Like most European cities, its not so easy to get around by car (and we
didn't even have a map!), but I just parked at the first lot I saw that
was near mass transit, and we went right into old town without a problem.

The Rhine has a train route that runs through most of the towns (day and
night, I'm told!). Since we had the car, we stayed just a few kilometers
away in Oberwesel to escape the noise. The little town is quiet, with a
view of the Rhine and walking paths through the adjacent vineyards.

Most of the actual castles are on the Rhine (its loaded with them). You
can even stay in a castle, though its kind of pricey. The "castles" in
Fussen are actually palaces, but still very cool.

    > 2. How to do the Romantic Road. Should I base myself at a place & do
    > short day trips. If so where do I base myself.

You should spend at least one night in Rothenburg. Its really crowded with
day tourists until about 6pm, then its your own little midievel town that
you have almost to yourself! Seems like a reasonable place to base
yourself. You could drop by some of the other towns while the crowds visit
Rothenburg, and come back to town when they all leave! We only stayed
there for one evening - these are small towns so there's not much to keep
you occupied for days on end.

    > Would really appreciate help in planning the above. This is our first
    > trip to Germany so probably would be more intrested in the touristy
    > stuff. However not much interest in big cities.

That's kind of how we feel...but as I say Munich is worth a day at least.
If you're interested, here's where we stayed:

Oberwesel: Gasthaus winery Stahl, http://www.hotel-germany-rhine.com/
Rothenburg: Hotel Klosterstueble, http://www.klosterstueble.rothenburg.de/
Füssen: Steig Mühle, http://www.steigmuehle.de/

Just a warning: I'm not sure how seriously German hotels take
reservations; while the Oberwesel hotel was wonderful, they had given our
room away and put us up in some adjacent basement (we were too exhausted
to argue, and it was just one night). And we'd secured a reservation with
a credit card! To their credit, they did give me free beer (that was very
good), and their food was outstanding (try the meatballs!).

We only drove through Austria and didn't stop since the big cities are
farther east and we were en-route to Venice from Fussen. Its beautiful
country (though much like southern Germany). We really enjoyed Belgium,
which isn't very far from the Rhine valley.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address

Bb

On Thu, 12 May 2005 18:45:11 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm wrote:

    > Day 1: Frankfurt to Bacharach, explore town of bacharach.
    > Day 2, 3, explore Rhine Valley.
    > Day 4. Drive Bacharach to Rothenburg
    > Day 5. Explore Rothenburg.
    > Day 6. Leisurely drive down Romantischestrasse
    > Day 7. See Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau.
    > Day 8,9 Drive to Munich and spend two days there.
    > Day 10. Get back to Amsterdam.

Nice itinerary!

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address

Juliana L Holm

BB <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On 12 May 2005 09:21:23 -0700, Sudipto wrote:

    >> So could people comment on the above. Specially my questions are :-
    >> 1. Is it more convinient to rent a car or rely on the train. How about
    >> the cost angle ?

    > This is a really nice area for a car. You're not limited to hotels that
    > are close to train stations, so you can stay in places with great views
    > and much lower prices. We stayed at a nice place just outside of Fussen,
    > one of the least expensive hotels on our trip, and the view was this:
    > http://bbauer.gomen.org/images/fussen_view.jpg.

I'm a huge fan of trains in Europe, but these locations, with two small children,
I'd definitely do a car. There is no good train service down the Romantische-
strasse, and it's tough to do the Rhine castles from trains, also. When we were
last there, we were there 3 weeks, and we rented a car for one week, drove
from Bacharach, through the Black Forest, to Mittenwald (in the alps) and
then to Munich. This area was better via car.

    > Most of the actual castles are on the Rhine (its loaded with them). You
    > can even stay in a castle, though its kind of pricey. The "castles" in
    > Fussen are actually palaces, but still very cool.

There are two castle hostels, I talked about Bacharach, which is considered
by many to be the best youth hostel in the world. It has family rooms for
a family like this. There is also one in Koblenz. I have not been there
and cannot remember the name. But staying in a castle doesn't have to be
pricey.


    > That's kind of how we feel...but as I say Munich is worth a day at least.
    > If you're interested, here's where we stayed:

    > Oberwesel: Gasthaus winery Stahl, http://www.hotel-germany-rhine.com/
    > Rothenburg: Hotel Klosterstueble, http://www.klosterstueble.rothenburg.de/
    > Füssen: Steig Mühle, http://www.steigmuehle.de/

I'm going to look into these myself.


--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Helmut Uttenthaler

"Sudipto" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > So could people comment on the above. Specially my
    > questions are :-
    > 1. Is it more convinient to rent a car or rely on the
    > train. How about the cost angle ?

The Romantic Road thing might be better done by car.

If you want to visit Vienna, you can make a sidestep from Salzburg by train
(~300 km, trip takes 3 hours).

To do this, I recommend getting a familiy discount card (ask for the
"Vorteilscard Familie") at the station in Salzburg. It costs 20 EUR and with
it you get half fare. Two half fare return tickets Salzburg - Wien cost
about 80 EUR, so totally you spend 100 EUR for the trip. Children under 6
are travelling free in Austria, with the family discount card they even
travel free untill they are 15 (if travelling together with at least one
part of the parents).



--
LG

Helmut

Sudipto

Thanks to both of you. The sample itinerary would be a great help & I
would try to implement that.

So I will do the trip via car.

First 3 nights in Bacharach, preferably in youth hostel which is a
former castle.
4th-5th in Rothenburg. ( Would it be a better idea to stay 4-5th night
in Dinklesbuhl as it is less crowded ?)
6th-7th somewhere near Fussen.

I will also check out your hotel recos. for Rothenburg & Fussen.

This much seems decided.

For 8-10 are you suggesting Munich over Salzburg ? What about Vienna ?
Probably that is too far to drive. In which case you are suggesting
that I would be better off skipping Austria altogether as scenic wise
it would be close to southern Germany where I am spending the last 7
days ?

I agree with you taking a one way flight on a discount airline to
Amsterdam from my last point on the trip.

Alec

"Juliana L Holm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Sudipto <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> So you are suggesting that I can base myself in Bacharach for 2 days &
    >> do the Rhine Valley.
    > Yes. It's rather central. I'll also suggest that you consider staying in
    > the youth hostel in Bacharach. We stayed with our family (much older
    > kids,
    > 15 to 26) and were given a family room, where all of us could stay the
    > night,
    > with our own bathroom. It's in a castle overlooking the valley.
    >> What about the sights on the RR. Should I base myself in Fussen for 3
    >> days or base myself in Munich & do day trips. Or a smaller town like
    >> Dinklesbuhl, ?
    > Fussen is the total south end of the Romantischestrasse. I think if it
    > were I and I had three days, and your interests, I'd do this.
    > It's too far (several hours) for day trips from Munich with little kids, I
    > think.
    > Here's an idea of how an itinerary could go. I've driven between all
    > these
    > places in the past, so I do actually have some idea of the distances and
    > the
    > timing. I will say that the Rhine to Rothenburg is your most challenging
    > day.
    > Day 1: Frankfurt to Bacharach, explore town of bacharach.
    > Day 2, 3, explore Rhine Valley. Do at least one day cruising on one of the
    > steamships on the Rhine. Possibly drive to castles and explore them the
    > other day. Good castles include Burg Eltz (off the Mosel but not far
    > away,
    > Burg Rheinfels, Castle Klopp in Bingen, among others. And if you stay in
    > the hostel in Bacharach, that's Burg Stahlek).
    > Day 4. Drive Bacharach to Rothenburg, stopping along the way at a few
    > smaller
    > sights. Spend night in Rothenburg. This is a relatively long day driving.
    > Day 5. Explore Rothenburg. Possibly do the twilight (English Language)
    > Night
    > Watchman's tour. It's excellent. Second night in Rothenburg.
    > Day 6. Leisurely drive down Romantischestrasse, stopping in at least
    > Dinkelsbuhl and Nordlingen. Let the kids run around in a meadow
    > somewhere.
    > End day at south end of the Alps, near Fussen.
    > Day 7. See Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau. I highly recommend that
    > you
    > arrive at Neuschwanstein for the first tour of the day, then take a break,
    > then
    > visit Hohenschawangau in the afternoon. That helps avoid the huge crowds
    > at
    > Hohen schwangau. Spend the night at the same place.
    > Day 8,9 Drive to Munich and spend two days there. There are a number of
    > things
    > for kids, the Glockenspiel, the Englisher Garten for running around, the
    > Victualien Markt to pick up lunch. There's a Center for unusual museums
    > that
    > has a toy car museum and an Easter Bunny museum.
    > ALternatively do Salzburg for Day 8 and 9. Don't try to do both.
    > Day 10. Get back to Amsterdam. I'd try to fly back on a low cost carrier.
    > It
    > is a LONG drive from Munich. If you're going to drive to Amsterdam then
    > I'd
    > do this whole itinerarly backwards and end at the Rhine valley.
Dropping off a German rental car in Amsterdam will cost you several hundred
euro in charges. Best to fly/take a train, or drop off at the last German
city (e.g. Aachen) and take a train from there.

Alec

Sudipto

That's great info LG.

If I do decide to go to Vienna instead of Munich then I can probably
return the car in Salzburg, take the train to Vienna, spend couple of
days there & fly back to Amsterdam.

How is Vienna compared to Munich if we leave aside the museums ?

Juliana L Holm

Sudipto <[email protected]> wrote:

    > First 3 nights in Bacharach, preferably in youth hostel which is a
    > former castle.

Burg Stahlek. The web site is at:

http://www.jugendherberge.de/interna...h.jsp?IDJH=390

You probably need to join your local youth hostel association.

    > 4th-5th in Rothenburg. ( Would it be a better idea to stay 4-5th night
    > in Dinklesbuhl as it is less crowded ?)

Dinkelsbuhl is quite a bit more driving, and it means you cannot do the night
watchman's tour in Rothenburg, which is really very neat. Rothenburg is
often crowded during the day, but not so much at night. And when I was there
last in July, it was still not too crowded to enjoy.

There are a number of nice, less expensive guest houses outside the walls of
the city. Rich Steves' suggest some. We stayed at the Gasthof zur Goldene Rose.

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/update/etbd_gas.htm
n

    > 6th-7th somewhere near Fussen.

    > I will also check out your hotel recos. for Rothenburg & Fussen.

    > This much seems decided.

    > For 8-10 are you suggesting Munich over Salzburg ? What about Vienna ?
    > Probably that is too far to drive. In which case you are suggesting
    > that I would be better off skipping Austria altogether as scenic wise
    > it would be close to southern Germany where I am spending the last 7
    > days ?

I have not been to Vienna, but I was trying to arrange it for this October,
and it really is too far to drive with this short time. I have also not
been to Salzburg, so I was talking about what I know. I suspect that Salzburg
would be as nice if not nicer than Munich scenery wise. I know Munich has
fun stuff for kids to do and would be nice. That's really up to you. I
intended to keep that open. I don't think that Salzburg is that much further
from Fussen than Munich is (Munich is about 2 hours).

Julie

    > I agree with you taking a one way flight on a discount airline to
    > Amsterdam from my last point on the trip.


--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Bb

On 12 May 2005 12:55:59 -0700, Sudipto wrote:

    > For 8-10 are you suggesting Munich over Salzburg ? What about Vienna ?
    > Probably that is too far to drive. In which case you are suggesting
    > that I would be better off skipping Austria altogether as scenic wise
    > it would be close to southern Germany where I am spending the last 7
    > days ?

I haven't been to Salzburg, but Munich is a short trip and there is plenty
to do there. Actually, ViaMichelin.com shows the fastest route from Fussen
to Salsburg going THROUGH Munich! It might also be easier to get discount
air tickets from Munich.

I guess it depends on how big a Mozart fan you are. :-)

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address

Sudipto

Thanks Julie, now I understand why you suggested that I spend the night
in Rothenburg. Will do accordingly.

For staying at Burg Stahlek do I have to join the youth hostel
association ?