France, Anti-Americanism?
Oct 18th 2002, 12:47 am
#16
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Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
> I have visited France 21 times and no
> one has been rude to me.
Most US cities can't match *that* record of treating Americans with
courtesy....
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http://paulding.net Many useful utilities
Some people don't believe in violence,
but I've actually *seen* it....
> one has been rude to me.
Most US cities can't match *that* record of treating Americans with
courtesy....
--
http://paulding.net Many useful utilities
Some people don't believe in violence,
but I've actually *seen* it....
Oct 18th 2002, 1:56 am
#17
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Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
Sure thing, Greg. - And have you been there in the middle of a war
between the US and a Muslim country in which poison gas, smallpox
germs, nukes, etc., were being thrown around, and in which Osamah's
supporters and sympathizers throughout the world were looking for US
interests and citizens against which to make their point? The issue
isn't whether we can get along with the French under normal, or even
unusual or unpleasant circumstances (we can and we do), but rather, what
the effects of such a war might be with respect to US tourists.
As I said, we have had no problems or difficulties in getting along with
the French, and we both speak the language. I've wandered around the
back streets of a number of European and Third World Countries and
thoroughly enjoyed it. - But I haven't been in Europe during an armed
conflict between the US and a desperate, armed Muslim country during a
period when anti-American passions are this great throughout the Muslim
world, and when major terrorist attacks are being launched against US
interests throughout the world.
Actually, the question asked in my note was not whether we should go,
but whether it would be better for us to plan our trip for November or
wait until the the March-April period, in view of the news reports
predicting that there is a good chance that war will begin early next
year, and whether anyone had current experiences in this regard.
Jim
greg byshenk wrote:
> Jim Cate wrote:
>> We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
>> 2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
>> Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
>> tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
>> view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
>> it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
>> to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
>> We (my wife and I) are fairly experienced travelers and have visited the
>> same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times, and we have always found
>> the French to be courteous and friendly. However, I'm wondering whether
>> anyone on the ng has had recent experiences in this regard or can offer
>> advice or suggestions as to what the situation may be in the coming
>> months.
> If this is not a troll, then perhaps you should consider staynig home.
> No, not at all because of the possibility of having any problem with
> "Anti-Americansim" -- you won't have any such problem (if one is
> particularly obnoxious, then one might have a problem with "Anti-
> Obnoxiousism", but that is a different sort of thing).
> Instead, you should consider staying home because, if you indeed "have
> visited the same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times," and still
> feel the need to ask this question, then you probably aren't getting
> much out of your visits, and your time might be better spent doing
> something else.
> Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but on the one hand you seem to be
> saying that you are "experienced travelers" with multiple visits to
> France, and on the other your question suggests that you remain wholly
> ignorant about France and French attitudes.
between the US and a Muslim country in which poison gas, smallpox
germs, nukes, etc., were being thrown around, and in which Osamah's
supporters and sympathizers throughout the world were looking for US
interests and citizens against which to make their point? The issue
isn't whether we can get along with the French under normal, or even
unusual or unpleasant circumstances (we can and we do), but rather, what
the effects of such a war might be with respect to US tourists.
As I said, we have had no problems or difficulties in getting along with
the French, and we both speak the language. I've wandered around the
back streets of a number of European and Third World Countries and
thoroughly enjoyed it. - But I haven't been in Europe during an armed
conflict between the US and a desperate, armed Muslim country during a
period when anti-American passions are this great throughout the Muslim
world, and when major terrorist attacks are being launched against US
interests throughout the world.
Actually, the question asked in my note was not whether we should go,
but whether it would be better for us to plan our trip for November or
wait until the the March-April period, in view of the news reports
predicting that there is a good chance that war will begin early next
year, and whether anyone had current experiences in this regard.
Jim
greg byshenk wrote:
> Jim Cate wrote:
>> We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
>> 2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
>> Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
>> tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
>> view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
>> it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
>> to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
>> We (my wife and I) are fairly experienced travelers and have visited the
>> same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times, and we have always found
>> the French to be courteous and friendly. However, I'm wondering whether
>> anyone on the ng has had recent experiences in this regard or can offer
>> advice or suggestions as to what the situation may be in the coming
>> months.
> If this is not a troll, then perhaps you should consider staynig home.
> No, not at all because of the possibility of having any problem with
> "Anti-Americansim" -- you won't have any such problem (if one is
> particularly obnoxious, then one might have a problem with "Anti-
> Obnoxiousism", but that is a different sort of thing).
> Instead, you should consider staying home because, if you indeed "have
> visited the same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times," and still
> feel the need to ask this question, then you probably aren't getting
> much out of your visits, and your time might be better spent doing
> something else.
> Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but on the one hand you seem to be
> saying that you are "experienced travelers" with multiple visits to
> France, and on the other your question suggests that you remain wholly
> ignorant about France and French attitudes.
Oct 18th 2002, 2:07 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
In article
,
Jim Cate wrote:
> We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
> 2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
> Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
> tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
> view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
> it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
> to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
I am an American citizen and I applaud the French government for their
opposition to cowboy Bush's desire to go to war in Iraq. Disagreeing
with the American government on an issue like this is hardly a sign
of anti-Americanism; millions of life-long Americans agree with the
French on this issue.
,
Jim Cate wrote:
> We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
> 2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
> Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
> tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
> view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
> it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
> to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
I am an American citizen and I applaud the French government for their
opposition to cowboy Bush's desire to go to war in Iraq. Disagreeing
with the American government on an issue like this is hardly a sign
of anti-Americanism; millions of life-long Americans agree with the
French on this issue.
Oct 18th 2002, 2:31 am
#19
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:20:20 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
>We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
>2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
>Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
>tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days?
Although France as a nation can be maddeningly "bloody-minded", as one
poster here put it well, I've found the French as individuals to be
pleasant (less so in Paris, but that's another story). The French
government reflexively opposes the American position on just about
everything but French people have never to my knowledge targeted
individual Americans for political reasons. There's no reason to
think that this time should be any different. At any rate I've no
intention of cancelling my visit to Nice next spring.
---
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply.
>We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
>2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
>Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
>tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days?
Although France as a nation can be maddeningly "bloody-minded", as one
poster here put it well, I've found the French as individuals to be
pleasant (less so in Paris, but that's another story). The French
government reflexively opposes the American position on just about
everything but French people have never to my knowledge targeted
individual Americans for political reasons. There's no reason to
think that this time should be any different. At any rate I've no
intention of cancelling my visit to Nice next spring.
---
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply.
Oct 18th 2002, 3:26 am
#20
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:56:33 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
>Actually, the question asked in my note was not whether we should go,
>but whether it would be better for us to plan our trip for November or
>wait until the the March-April period, in view of the news reports
>predicting that there is a good chance that war will begin early next
>year, and whether anyone had current experiences in this regard.
It is extremely unlikely that an attack against Iraq would be launched
next spring. No one wants to have soldiers inside tanks during summer
in Iraq. The ideal time to attack would be now, as the cool season is
beginning -- why do you think Saddam chose this time to bring out the
inspections gambit?
Anyway, as others have responded, none of this should affect you
personally (unless you do something foolish like get involved in a
demonstration).
---
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply.
>Actually, the question asked in my note was not whether we should go,
>but whether it would be better for us to plan our trip for November or
>wait until the the March-April period, in view of the news reports
>predicting that there is a good chance that war will begin early next
>year, and whether anyone had current experiences in this regard.
It is extremely unlikely that an attack against Iraq would be launched
next spring. No one wants to have soldiers inside tanks during summer
in Iraq. The ideal time to attack would be now, as the cool season is
beginning -- why do you think Saddam chose this time to bring out the
inspections gambit?
Anyway, as others have responded, none of this should affect you
personally (unless you do something foolish like get involved in a
demonstration).
---
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply.
Oct 18th 2002, 3:37 am
#21
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
Go Fig wrote:
> I never thought the French were rude per say, The Parisians, especially
> the taxi drivers, are indeed arrogant. That said, they have quite a
> legacy.
Parisian cab drivers?
miguel
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> I never thought the French were rude per say, The Parisians, especially
> the taxi drivers, are indeed arrogant. That said, they have quite a
> legacy.
Parisian cab drivers?
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
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Oct 18th 2002, 3:41 am
#22
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
Jim Cate wrote:
> conflict between the US and a desperate, armed Muslim country during a
> period when anti-American passions are this great throughout the Muslim
> world, and when major terrorist attacks are being launched against US
> interests throughout the world.
Ah. Well, I have. And it was no different.
> Actually, the question asked in my note was not whether we should go, but
> whether it would be better for us to plan our trip for November or wait
> until the the March-April period, in view of the news reports predicting
> that there is a good chance that war will begin early next year, and
> whether anyone had current experiences in this regard.
There is absolutely no need to link US war plans with your travel plans,
unless you were planning a trip to Iraq.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
> conflict between the US and a desperate, armed Muslim country during a
> period when anti-American passions are this great throughout the Muslim
> world, and when major terrorist attacks are being launched against US
> interests throughout the world.
Ah. Well, I have. And it was no different.
> Actually, the question asked in my note was not whether we should go, but
> whether it would be better for us to plan our trip for November or wait
> until the the March-April period, in view of the news reports predicting
> that there is a good chance that war will begin early next year, and
> whether anyone had current experiences in this regard.
There is absolutely no need to link US war plans with your travel plans,
unless you were planning a trip to Iraq.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
Oct 18th 2002, 4:11 am
#23
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
In article ,
[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> Go Fig wrote:
> > I never thought the French were rude per say, The Parisians, especially
> > the taxi drivers, are indeed arrogant. That said, they have quite a
> > legacy.
> Parisian cab drivers?
What, you dont remember their gallant efforts to rush troops to the
Front... withstanding that, I meant Parisians in general.
jay
Thu, Oct 17, 2002
mailto:[email protected]
> miguel
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> Go Fig wrote:
> > I never thought the French were rude per say, The Parisians, especially
> > the taxi drivers, are indeed arrogant. That said, they have quite a
> > legacy.
> Parisian cab drivers?
What, you dont remember their gallant efforts to rush troops to the
Front... withstanding that, I meant Parisians in general.
jay
Thu, Oct 17, 2002
mailto:[email protected]
> miguel
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Oct 18th 2002, 5:59 am
#24
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
Alan Thomas Harrison wrote:
> In neither case, however, would I feel that criticism of the British
> government was "anti-British", and I would certainly not feel any kind
> of personal affront at such criticism. Consequently, I find it rather
> hard to understand why some Americans, at least, don't react with
> similar equanimity to criticism of their country's government.
Inferiority complexes?
> In neither case, however, would I feel that criticism of the British
> government was "anti-British", and I would certainly not feel any kind
> of personal affront at such criticism. Consequently, I find it rather
> hard to understand why some Americans, at least, don't react with
> similar equanimity to criticism of their country's government.
Inferiority complexes?
Oct 18th 2002, 6:02 am
#25
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
greg byshenk wrote:
> Jim Cate wrote:
> > We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
> > 2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
> > Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
> > tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
> > view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
> > it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
> > to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
> > We (my wife and I) are fairly experienced travelers and have visited the
> > same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times, and we have always found
> > the French to be courteous and friendly. However, I'm wondering whether
> > anyone on the ng has had recent experiences in this regard or can offer
> > advice or suggestions as to what the situation may be in the coming
> > months.
> If this is not a troll, then perhaps you should consider staynig home.
I think he confines his trolling to one of the opera
newsgroups, greg. (But he's an attorney from Texas - draw
your own conclusions.)
> Jim Cate wrote:
> > We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
> > 2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
> > Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
> > tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
> > view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
> > it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
> > to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
> > We (my wife and I) are fairly experienced travelers and have visited the
> > same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times, and we have always found
> > the French to be courteous and friendly. However, I'm wondering whether
> > anyone on the ng has had recent experiences in this regard or can offer
> > advice or suggestions as to what the situation may be in the coming
> > months.
> If this is not a troll, then perhaps you should consider staynig home.
I think he confines his trolling to one of the opera
newsgroups, greg. (But he's an attorney from Texas - draw
your own conclusions.)
Oct 18th 2002, 6:08 am
#26
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
Mike wrote:
> Europeans, especially the French, are more on the left of political
> spectrum compared to the US. So it is natural that they take offenses
> at the current Dubya's cowboy foreign policies. Just like anywhere in
> the world, there
> are hard-liners, militant nationalists who ignorantly think all
> Americans think like Dubya. The rudeness of the French, is more likely
> because their culture. Most American tourist experienced what we call a
> culture shock at the French shenanigan. To the french, these kinds of
> behavior are harmless, maybe innocent.
Why do SOME Americans persist in claiming the French are
rude, when the rest of their countrymen have never
experienced that alleged "rudeness"? Could it simply be
that the French respond in the same manner they are
addressed?
> Irwell wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:20:20 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
> >
> >
> >>We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
> >>2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
> >>Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
> >>tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
> >>view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
> >>it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
> >>to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
> >>
> >>We (my wife and I) are fairly experienced travelers and have visited the
> >>same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times, and we have always found
> >>the French to be courteous and friendly. However, I'm wondering whether
> >>anyone on the ng has had recent experiences in this regard or can offer
> >>advice or suggestions as to what the situation may be in the coming
> >>months.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Jim Cate
> >>
> >
> > Just don;t wear your "I'm proud to be an American' Teeshirt.
> Europeans, especially the French, are more on the left of political
> spectrum compared to the US. So it is natural that they take offenses
> at the current Dubya's cowboy foreign policies. Just like anywhere in
> the world, there
> are hard-liners, militant nationalists who ignorantly think all
> Americans think like Dubya. The rudeness of the French, is more likely
> because their culture. Most American tourist experienced what we call a
> culture shock at the French shenanigan. To the french, these kinds of
> behavior are harmless, maybe innocent.
Why do SOME Americans persist in claiming the French are
rude, when the rest of their countrymen have never
experienced that alleged "rudeness"? Could it simply be
that the French respond in the same manner they are
addressed?
> Irwell wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:20:20 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
> >
> >
> >>We are considering a trip to France this November or in the March-April
> >>2003 period. In view of their strong opposition to the US position on
> >>Iraq, does anyone have any news or current information as to whether US
> >>tourists are experiencing a less than warm welcome there these days? In
> >>view of the fact that military action may begin next year, I'm thinking
> >>it might be better to go earlier, perhaps in November or early December,
> >>to avoid being there in the midst of a war.
> >>
> >>We (my wife and I) are fairly experienced travelers and have visited the
> >>same Left Bank neighborhood a number of times, and we have always found
> >>the French to be courteous and friendly. However, I'm wondering whether
> >>anyone on the ng has had recent experiences in this regard or can offer
> >>advice or suggestions as to what the situation may be in the coming
> >>months.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Jim Cate
> >>
> >
> > Just don;t wear your "I'm proud to be an American' Teeshirt.
Oct 18th 2002, 6:11 am
#27
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Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
On second thought, greg, it would appear your first reaction
was spot on!
Jim Cate wrote:
> Sure thing, Greg. - And have you been there in the middle of a war
> between the US and a Muslim country
> greg byshenk wrote:
> > If this is not a troll, then perhaps you should consider staynig home.
was spot on!
Jim Cate wrote:
> Sure thing, Greg. - And have you been there in the middle of a war
> between the US and a Muslim country
> greg byshenk wrote:
> > If this is not a troll, then perhaps you should consider staynig home.
Oct 18th 2002, 3:23 pm
#28
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Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
Alan Thomas Harrison wrote in message news:...
> beefeater wrote:
> >
> > Any "anti-Americanism" will be directed at the US administration and it's
> > foreign-policies. Not at Americans as such. If you have strong opinions on
> > the conflict, consider it a great subject for discussions with locals!
> I agree.
> I must also confess that I have some difficulty in understanding the
> concept of "anti-Americanism".
> If I were travelling on the tube from Heathrow to central London and an
> American engaged me in conversation about what a jerk Tony Blair is, my
> immediate instinct would be to think that I had found an interesting
> travel companion with whom to while away an hour's tube ride. If it
> proved that he was an extreme right-winger who actually thought Blair's
> a leftie, I would find urgent business at Hounslow that required me to
> alight and wait for the next train.
> In neither case, however, would I feel that criticism of the British
> government was "anti-British", and I would certainly not feel any kind
> of personal affront at such criticism. Consequently, I find it rather
> hard to understand why some Americans, at least, don't react with
> similar equanimity to criticism of their country's government.
> Alan Harrison
As an American living in London I can assure you that the BCC has a
'character assassination policy' for GW Bush. He will never be allowed
to be portrayed in anything but a negitive light.
> beefeater wrote:
> >
> > Any "anti-Americanism" will be directed at the US administration and it's
> > foreign-policies. Not at Americans as such. If you have strong opinions on
> > the conflict, consider it a great subject for discussions with locals!
> I agree.
> I must also confess that I have some difficulty in understanding the
> concept of "anti-Americanism".
> If I were travelling on the tube from Heathrow to central London and an
> American engaged me in conversation about what a jerk Tony Blair is, my
> immediate instinct would be to think that I had found an interesting
> travel companion with whom to while away an hour's tube ride. If it
> proved that he was an extreme right-winger who actually thought Blair's
> a leftie, I would find urgent business at Hounslow that required me to
> alight and wait for the next train.
> In neither case, however, would I feel that criticism of the British
> government was "anti-British", and I would certainly not feel any kind
> of personal affront at such criticism. Consequently, I find it rather
> hard to understand why some Americans, at least, don't react with
> similar equanimity to criticism of their country's government.
> Alan Harrison
As an American living in London I can assure you that the BCC has a
'character assassination policy' for GW Bush. He will never be allowed
to be portrayed in anything but a negitive light.
Oct 18th 2002, 3:29 pm
#29
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Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote in message news:...
> Alan Thomas Harrison wrote:
> >
> > In neither case, however, would I feel that criticism of the British
> > government was "anti-British", and I would certainly not feel any kind
> > of personal affront at such criticism. Consequently, I find it rather
> > hard to understand why some Americans, at least, don't react with
> > similar equanimity to criticism of their country's government.
> Inferiority complexes?
Inferiority complexes? -- No.
Were just a people have to deal with the reality of the way the world
is right now. And I think the American public is going to give Bush a
chance to deal with an immensely difficult problem.
> Alan Thomas Harrison wrote:
> >
> > In neither case, however, would I feel that criticism of the British
> > government was "anti-British", and I would certainly not feel any kind
> > of personal affront at such criticism. Consequently, I find it rather
> > hard to understand why some Americans, at least, don't react with
> > similar equanimity to criticism of their country's government.
> Inferiority complexes?
Inferiority complexes? -- No.
Were just a people have to deal with the reality of the way the world
is right now. And I think the American public is going to give Bush a
chance to deal with an immensely difficult problem.
Oct 18th 2002, 5:31 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: France, Anti-Americanism?
John T wrote:
> As an American living in London I can assure you that the BCC has a
> 'character assassination policy' for GW Bush. He will never be allowed
> to be portrayed in anything but a negitive light.
He must be giving them the same instructions he gives his press people here
in the USA then - they too seem calculated to put him in a negative light to
rational people.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
> As an American living in London I can assure you that the BCC has a
> 'character assassination policy' for GW Bush. He will never be allowed
> to be portrayed in anything but a negitive light.
He must be giving them the same instructions he gives his press people here
in the USA then - they too seem calculated to put him in a negative light to
rational people.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/