EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:


    > >>Especially when the "ideal" of feminine beauty is so mutable! By today's
    > >>unrealistic standards, Marilyn Monroe, Jane Russell, Betty Grable, and a
    > >>number of WW2's "pin-up" girls would be considered obese. (We won't mention
    > >>Lillian Russell and the "beauties" of the 1890's.)
    > >
    > >
    > > There has never been even a single 'pin-up' anything
    > > like as obese as the hippo being discussed.
    >
    > How do you know? Have you met the lady? (Or seen pictures
    > of Lillian Russell? How about Rubens paintings?))


How is this relevant? Only you are talking about beauty, the rest of us
are talking about obesity, which is a medical term. Many things that
have been regarded as attractive in women are also unhealthy: foot
binding, lead based makeup, starvation diets, liposuction, silicon
implants, stilletos, tight lacing - which it looks like the abundant
Lillian also practiced. Should we do that too?

joan

--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Especially when the "ideal" of feminine beauty is so
    >mutable! By today's unrealistic standards, Marilyn Monroe,
    >Jane Russell, Betty Grable, and a number of WW2's "pin-up"
    >girls would be considered obese.

Uh, Marilyn Monroe was reported to be 5'5" and 118-140 lbs. Sure she
was not skinny as today's movie actresses are, but assuming she was
140, then she had a BMI of less than 25 which makes her of normal
weight by today's standards. I bet the same is true for Jane Russell,
but I don't know her measurements.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:32:17 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:


    >> I'm not "obese" (although I
    >> could probably stand to lose another pound or two), but
    >> controlling that weight requires constant vigilance. (One
    >> trip to Europe, eating what is considered a "normal" diet
    >> there, means a month of dieting when I return home.)
    >Then why aren't Europeans obese?

They are. You need to go out more.
--
Martin

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:50:58 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> Airlines must by law accommodate disabled persons and overweight
    >> people are certainly treated as if they have a disability.

KLM refuses to carry disabled passengers. I have been refused by KLM.


--
Martin

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:51:40 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Service Tech writes:
    >> Why not a 777 with two rows of "sofa" sized seats all the way back? you can
    >> get the cost of your ticket financed at your local bank.
    >Why not fly fat people as cargo? Very large objects can be accommodated
    >that way.

Without showing your prejudices tell us how you feel about fat
Germans.
--
Martin

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:19:15 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Dave Smith writes:
    >> That is not true at all. Perhaps the average Asian fits comfortably in an
    >> standard airline seat. The average North American does not. And I am
    >> talking about the average, not the large and obese.
    >I fit in the seats, and I'm not small.
    >> And how is an occasional traveller to know which airlines have reasonable
    >> seating and which do not?
    >Google is his friend. I was able to find this information in about ten
    >seconds. The average pitch for airlines in the U.S. is around 32" in
    >economy class, and about 50" in business class (but business and first
    >class are _far_ more variable).

32" is not enough for most people with long legs.

MAS has 34" in economy, that is on the limit for me.

    >> I would disagree with that. I once paid considerably more to fly KLM rather
    >> than AirTransat because I was led to believe the seating was more
    >> comfortable. I was deeply disappointed to find that their setting was just
    >> as appallingly cramped as AirTransat.

KLM is one of the worst.


--
Martin

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:39:26 -0700, timeOday
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >Ah, same here, one of my worst flights was next to what you might call
    >an Amazon Woman. She wasn't fat, just very tall and with very broad
    >shoulders. But things weren't so bad, that is until she fell asleep and
    >stopped scrunching up.

Always sit on the left of an Amazon woman.
--
Martin

nitram writes:

    > They are. You need to go out more.

I see Europeans every day. At least around here (Paris), they are not
obese. One of the easiest ways to recognize Americans in Paris is to
look for people who are under 50 years old and overweight.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:32:46 GMT, Anthony Matonak <[email protected]>
wrote:

    |Generally folks (medical community, insurance companies, etc.) have
    |switched from the old height/weight tables to "body mass index" which
    |is simply a revised height/weight table. With these revised tables,
    |a "healthy" weight for a 6 foot man is around 170 pounds. Yes, this
    |is what most people would consider "skinny" but they are basing this
    |on research which indicates that "skinny" people live longer. These
    |tables are somewhat controversial and you'll note that almost all
    |football and baseball players are considered morbidly obese.
    |
    |Anthony
    |--
    |It's a fine line between healthy weight and anorexia.

Use what you like - BMI, % body fat, waist size, hip-to waist ratio.
She was morbidly obese.

I don't recall any comment about her athletic ability or that she was
the first American female sumo.

Aaarghh! I got sucked back in. Enough!

Cheers, Alan, Australia

Anthony Matonak <[email protected]> writes:

    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
    > ...
    > > Interesting! Thirty years ago, 250 lbs. was considered "normal" for
    > > a man of six feet - much less than that, and he was called "skinny".
    >
    > Generally folks (medical community, insurance companies, etc.) have
    > switched from the old height/weight tables to "body mass index" which
    > is simply a revised height/weight table. With these revised tables,
    > a "healthy" weight for a 6 foot man is around 170 pounds. Yes, this
    > is what most people would consider "skinny" but they are basing this
    > on research which indicates that "skinny" people live longer. These
    > tables are somewhat controversial and you'll note that almost all
    > football and baseball players are considered morbidly obese.

Actuallay, they aren't, because physicians know better than to apply
the BMI system in such a ludricous manner.

Howeverm, they do know that the vast amount of, ahem, hefty people
aren't athletes, farmers, miners or construction works, but simply
eating to much food for the little physical excercise they get.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:14:37 -0600, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:

    |EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
    |> Rod Speed wrote:
    |>> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    |>>> Especially when the "ideal" of feminine beauty is so mutable! By
    |>>> today's unrealistic standards, Marilyn Monroe, Jane Russell, Betty
    |>>> Grable, and a number of WW2's "pin-up" girls would be considered obese.
    |>>> (We won't mention Lillian Russell and the "beauties" of the 1890's.)
    |>>
    |>> There has never been even a single 'pin-up' anything
    |>> like as obese as the hippo being discussed.
    |>
    |> How do you know? Have you met the lady? (Or seen pictures
    |> of Lillian Russell? How about Rubens paintings?))
    |
    |Remember that she was about 270 pounds. I'm around 6'5" and of normal
    |weight, according to doctors, and I'd have to put on 80 pounds (an entire
    |Asian adult woman) to weigh as much as the person in question. There is
    |almost no chance that she is anywhere near as tall as me.
    |
    |Marilyn Monroe was no waif, but she did not weigh almost 300 pounds.
    |
    |miguel


I've heard this nonsense before. So, when I hear nonsense my first
port of call is Snopes (read in full before arguing:-):

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm

"a range of measurements for Marilyn Monroe based on the available
sources:

Height: 5 feet, 5½ inches
Weight: 118-140 pounds
Bust: 35-37 inches
Waist: 22-23 inches
Hips: 35-36 inches
Bra size: 36D"

She wasn't obese, and to this mere male, what she did have was very
nicely arranged. They all were before my time, but I'll say the same
for Betty Grable and Jane Russell. But fat women have been making this
claim since they first saw size sixteen on the way up.


Cheers, Alan, Australia

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:44:51 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >nitram writes:
    >> They are. You need to go out more.
    >I see Europeans every day.


Amazing or what?

    >At least around here (Paris), they are not
    >obese. One of the easiest ways to recognize Americans in Paris is to
    >look for people who are under 50 years old and overweight.

All Europeans don't live in or visit Paris.
--
Martin

Mxsmanic wrote:
    > No. Obesity is fundamentally stressful to health status. A long
    > list of diseases are either aggravated or caused by obesity.

Many years ago I carried a five gallon container (weighed maybe 40
pounds) up four flights of stairs. Seeing how winded I was, a
co-worker commented "Imagine if you weighed that much more than you
do". I did. I don't although I've been close to 20 pounds heavier
than I was then. My body mass index is still a bit lower than 25.
__________________________________________________ __________
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Mxsmanic wrote:

    > An assumption that is almost invariably correct. It's about as accurate
    > as assuming that people who weigh 300 pounds are carrying mostly fat
    > rather than muscle.

I would be inclined to agree that most 300 pounders are carrying a considerable
amount of fat. However, there are lots of 300 pounders who are not fat. Someone
here suggested that anything over 100 kg should be charged extra. I know lots of
people who weigh more than 100 kg who are not fat at all. OTOH, I know people who
weigh less than 100 kg who are very fat.

    > > I have fought weight all my life. I have always been active.
    > Eat less food.
    > > By your self righteous standards, he is the one who should have
    > > the weight problem and the one who would have chosen the disability.
    > If you eat more than you burn, you'll get fat. There are no exceptions.

I am quite aware that lower intake and more exercise is required to maintain my
weight. My problem is with the self righteous dicks who assume that anyone with
extra weight is a lazy glutton when it may well be that they eat less and exercise
more. As I pointed out, I have three brothers who eat much more than I do and who
do not exercise, but they do not gain weight.

    > > When I am in planes designed to accommodate the average person comfortably I
    > > don't have a major problem. I would suggest to you that most planes these
    > > days are not designed for the average person to be comfortable. They have
    > > squeezed in an extra seat or two to maximize profit at the expense of
    > > passenger comfort.
    > That's what customers want. If the airline provides more comfortable
    > seating at a higher price, most people will choose the cheap, cramped
    > seats.

Well if that's what customers want they should stop bitching about being crowded
in their seats. Let the self righteous skinny bastards pay for the luxury of more
comfortable seating instead of having to be exposed to real people.

nitram wrote:

    > >> Airlines must by law accommodate disabled persons and overweight
    > >> people are certainly treated as if they have a disability.
    > KLM refuses to carry disabled passengers. I have been refused by KLM.

I thought they hired the handicapped. The time we paid considerably more
to fly KLM because we thought it would be more comfortable and have
better service than the others we had the stupidest flight attendant
imaginable. She was really good looking, but really slow and stupid. We
were the last people served on every round of food and drinks. Our
relatives in the row behind us were finished their meals before we were
even served. They had a choice. We got what was left over. My brother
described her as the "opportunity stewardess".