Dutch rush to get ID cards
Jan 10th 2005 | 2:11 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dutch rush to get ID cards
Dutch rush to get ID cards
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=15421
4 January 2005
AMSTERDAM � Over 225,000 applications for identity cards have been
filed in the last two months in the Netherlands. Everyone, aged 14 and
above, must carry valid identification or face a fine under a new law
that came into force in Holland on 1 January.
Who are you and can you prove it?
Sdu Identification, the company that makes the Dutch identity card,
can barely meet the huge demand that has been generated by the law,
newspaper De Volkskrant said on Tuesday.
Dozens of people have already been fined since the early hours of 1
January for failing to produce valid ID when asked to do so by police
officers. In most cases, the people were initially stopped in relation
to other offences.
In one case in Groningen, two cyclists received on-the-spot fines of
EUR 75 each, EUR 25 for not having lights on their bikes and EUR 50
for failing to produce ID.
Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
It is estimated that 330,000 young people, aged 14 to 18, do not have
a passport or a driver's licence. There were obliged therefore to
apply for a Dutch identity card. Many other people have applied for an
identity card as they feel it is not safe to carry their passport at
all times.
Most people applying for the identity card, De Volkskrant said, appear
to have waited until the last minute. Only 25 percent of Sdu's supply
of 300,000 pre-printed cards are still available. The company has had
to work over the weekend to ensure everyone gets their cards within
five days of applying.
--
Martin
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=15421
4 January 2005
AMSTERDAM � Over 225,000 applications for identity cards have been
filed in the last two months in the Netherlands. Everyone, aged 14 and
above, must carry valid identification or face a fine under a new law
that came into force in Holland on 1 January.
Who are you and can you prove it?
Sdu Identification, the company that makes the Dutch identity card,
can barely meet the huge demand that has been generated by the law,
newspaper De Volkskrant said on Tuesday.
Dozens of people have already been fined since the early hours of 1
January for failing to produce valid ID when asked to do so by police
officers. In most cases, the people were initially stopped in relation
to other offences.
In one case in Groningen, two cyclists received on-the-spot fines of
EUR 75 each, EUR 25 for not having lights on their bikes and EUR 50
for failing to produce ID.
Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
It is estimated that 330,000 young people, aged 14 to 18, do not have
a passport or a driver's licence. There were obliged therefore to
apply for a Dutch identity card. Many other people have applied for an
identity card as they feel it is not safe to carry their passport at
all times.
Most people applying for the identity card, De Volkskrant said, appear
to have waited until the last minute. Only 25 percent of Sdu's supply
of 300,000 pre-printed cards are still available. The company has had
to work over the weekend to ensure everyone gets their cards within
five days of applying.
--
Martin
Jan 10th 2005 | 5:00 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
"nitram" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Dutch rush to get ID cards
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=15421
> 4 January 2005
> AMSTERDAM - Over 225,000 applications for identity cards have been
> filed in the last two months in the Netherlands. Everyone, aged 14 and
> above, must carry valid identification or face a fine under a new law
> that came into force in Holland on 1 January.
> Who are you and can you prove it?
> Sdu Identification, the company that makes the Dutch identity card,
> can barely meet the huge demand that has been generated by the law,
> newspaper De Volkskrant said on Tuesday.
> Dozens of people have already been fined since the early hours of 1
> January for failing to produce valid ID when asked to do so by police
> officers. In most cases, the people were initially stopped in relation
> to other offences.
> In one case in Groningen, two cyclists received on-the-spot fines of
> EUR 75 each, EUR 25 for not having lights on their bikes and EUR 50
> for failing to produce ID.
> Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
> residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
> license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
> entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
What about:
- another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
- an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
TIA for any info (citing its source).
Regards,
- Alan (in Brussels)
news:[email protected]...
> Dutch rush to get ID cards
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=15421
> 4 January 2005
> AMSTERDAM - Over 225,000 applications for identity cards have been
> filed in the last two months in the Netherlands. Everyone, aged 14 and
> above, must carry valid identification or face a fine under a new law
> that came into force in Holland on 1 January.
> Who are you and can you prove it?
> Sdu Identification, the company that makes the Dutch identity card,
> can barely meet the huge demand that has been generated by the law,
> newspaper De Volkskrant said on Tuesday.
> Dozens of people have already been fined since the early hours of 1
> January for failing to produce valid ID when asked to do so by police
> officers. In most cases, the people were initially stopped in relation
> to other offences.
> In one case in Groningen, two cyclists received on-the-spot fines of
> EUR 75 each, EUR 25 for not having lights on their bikes and EUR 50
> for failing to produce ID.
> Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
> residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
> license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
> entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
What about:
- another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
- an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
TIA for any info (citing its source).
Regards,
- Alan (in Brussels)
Jan 10th 2005 | 5:05 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:00:01 +0100, "Alan \(in Brussels\)"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
>> residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
>> license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
>> entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
>What about:
>- another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
>- an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
>TIA for any info (citing its source).
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=15421
A driving license seems to be adequate too
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
>> residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
>> license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
>> entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
>What about:
>- another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
>- an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
>TIA for any info (citing its source).
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=15421
A driving license seems to be adequate too
--
Martin
Jan 10th 2005 | 6:19 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
"Alan (in Brussels)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "nitram" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
> news:[email protected]...
>> Dutch rush to get ID cards
>> Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
>> residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
>> license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
>> entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
> What about:
> - another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
Agreed, this is what I carry around for ID and I sometimes stray
over the Dutch border.
> - an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
I doubt it.
> TIA for any info (citing its source).
tim
news:[email protected]...
> "nitram" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
> news:[email protected]...
>> Dutch rush to get ID cards
>> Valid forms of ID are a passport, a Dutch or European ID card, or a
>> residence permit. In some cases, but not all, a valid Dutch driver's
>> license will do. Expats and holiday and holiday makers are not
>> entitled to a Dutch identity card, which costs EUR 30.
> What about:
> - another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
Agreed, this is what I carry around for ID and I sometimes stray
over the Dutch border.
> - an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
I doubt it.
> TIA for any info (citing its source).
tim
Jan 10th 2005 | 7:08 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
"Alan (in Brussels)" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> What about:
> - another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
> - an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
> TIA for any info (citing its source).
From:
http://www.postbus51.nl
(the Netherlands government's official information site)
my (partial) translation in < >
Met welke identiteitsbewijzen kan ik mij identificeren?
<which ID is valid?
Nederlandse nationaliteit
Heeft u de Nederlandse nationaliteit, dan kunt u zich identificeren met de
volgende documenten:
<for individuals with Dutch nationality>
a.. een geldig Nederlands paspoort;
b.. < a valid Dutch passport>
c.. een geldige Nederlandse identiteitskaart (voorheen Europese
identiteitskaart);
d.. < a valid Dutch ID card>
e.. een geldig Nederlands rijbewijs. Het rijbewijs is een algemeen erkend
identiteitsbewijs, maar in situaties waarin gegevens over verblijfsstatus en
nationaliteit belangrijk zijn, kunt u zich er niet mee identificeren. Op het
rijbewijs staat namelijk niets over uw nationaliteit en de verblijfsstatus.
f.. < a valid Dutch drivers license, but in those situations where your
nationality is important, a drivers license can not be used as ID.>
Informatie over wanneer u welk identiteitsbewijs kunt gebruiken vindt u
onder de interne link.
Nederlandse nationaliteit en een andere nationaliteit
Heeft u naast de Nederlandse nationaliteit een andere nationaliteit, dan
kunt u zich identificeren met de bovenstaande Nederlandse documenten.
Nationaliteit van een EU/EER land
< for individuals with nationality of a EU / EEA country>
Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land van de Europese Unie (EU) of de
Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met uw
geldige paspoort of met een geldig EU/EER-vreemdelingendocument.
< valid passport or valid EU / EEA aliens document>
Nationaliteit van een niet-EU/EER land
< nationality of non-EU / non-EEA country>
Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land buiten de Europese Unie (EU) of de
Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met een
geldig Nederlands vreemdelingendocument (verblijfsdocument).
<valid Dutch aliens document (residence permit)>
Ongeldige documenten
U kunt u niet identificeren met allerlei andere pasjes en kaarten, zoals een
openbaarvervoerkaart, bromfietscertificaat, collegekaart, bankpas of
zwemabonnement. U kunt u ook niet identificeren met een identiteitsbewijs
dat verlopen of anderszins ongeldig is.
< documents that are no longer valid (expired) can not be used>
Een kopie van uw paspoort, identiteitskaart, rijbewijs of
vreemdelingendocument is geen geldig identiteitsbewijs. U kunt zich er niet
mee identificeren. De echtheidskenmerken die op het originele document zijn
aangebracht kunnen op een kopie niet worden gecontroleerd.
< copies of documents can not be used >
It seems that these documents are needed for residents of the Netherlands.
Visitors can use any document that is valid for crossing the border into the
Netherlands.
Sjoerd
news:[email protected]...
> What about:
> - another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
> - an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
> TIA for any info (citing its source).
From:
http://www.postbus51.nl
(the Netherlands government's official information site)
my (partial) translation in < >
Met welke identiteitsbewijzen kan ik mij identificeren?
<which ID is valid?
Nederlandse nationaliteit
Heeft u de Nederlandse nationaliteit, dan kunt u zich identificeren met de
volgende documenten:
<for individuals with Dutch nationality>
a.. een geldig Nederlands paspoort;
b.. < a valid Dutch passport>
c.. een geldige Nederlandse identiteitskaart (voorheen Europese
identiteitskaart);
d.. < a valid Dutch ID card>
e.. een geldig Nederlands rijbewijs. Het rijbewijs is een algemeen erkend
identiteitsbewijs, maar in situaties waarin gegevens over verblijfsstatus en
nationaliteit belangrijk zijn, kunt u zich er niet mee identificeren. Op het
rijbewijs staat namelijk niets over uw nationaliteit en de verblijfsstatus.
f.. < a valid Dutch drivers license, but in those situations where your
nationality is important, a drivers license can not be used as ID.>
Informatie over wanneer u welk identiteitsbewijs kunt gebruiken vindt u
onder de interne link.
Nederlandse nationaliteit en een andere nationaliteit
Heeft u naast de Nederlandse nationaliteit een andere nationaliteit, dan
kunt u zich identificeren met de bovenstaande Nederlandse documenten.
Nationaliteit van een EU/EER land
< for individuals with nationality of a EU / EEA country>
Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land van de Europese Unie (EU) of de
Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met uw
geldige paspoort of met een geldig EU/EER-vreemdelingendocument.
< valid passport or valid EU / EEA aliens document>
Nationaliteit van een niet-EU/EER land
< nationality of non-EU / non-EEA country>
Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land buiten de Europese Unie (EU) of de
Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met een
geldig Nederlands vreemdelingendocument (verblijfsdocument).
<valid Dutch aliens document (residence permit)>
Ongeldige documenten
U kunt u niet identificeren met allerlei andere pasjes en kaarten, zoals een
openbaarvervoerkaart, bromfietscertificaat, collegekaart, bankpas of
zwemabonnement. U kunt u ook niet identificeren met een identiteitsbewijs
dat verlopen of anderszins ongeldig is.
< documents that are no longer valid (expired) can not be used>
Een kopie van uw paspoort, identiteitskaart, rijbewijs of
vreemdelingendocument is geen geldig identiteitsbewijs. U kunt zich er niet
mee identificeren. De echtheidskenmerken die op het originele document zijn
aangebracht kunnen op een kopie niet worden gecontroleerd.
< copies of documents can not be used >
It seems that these documents are needed for residents of the Netherlands.
Visitors can use any document that is valid for crossing the border into the
Netherlands.
Sjoerd
Jan 10th 2005 | 9:23 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or I will be penalized.
Sjoerd wrote:
> "Alan (in Brussels)" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>What about:
>>- another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
>>- an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
>>TIA for any info (citing its source).
>
>
> From:
> http://www.postbus51.nl
> (the Netherlands government's official information site)
> my (partial) translation in < >
>
> Met welke identiteitsbewijzen kan ik mij identificeren?
> <which ID is valid?
>
> Nederlandse nationaliteit
> Heeft u de Nederlandse nationaliteit, dan kunt u zich identificeren met de
> volgende documenten:
>
> <for individuals with Dutch nationality>
>
>
>
> a.. een geldig Nederlands paspoort;
> b.. < a valid Dutch passport>
> c.. een geldige Nederlandse identiteitskaart (voorheen Europese
> identiteitskaart);
> d.. < a valid Dutch ID card>
> e.. een geldig Nederlands rijbewijs. Het rijbewijs is een algemeen erkend
> identiteitsbewijs, maar in situaties waarin gegevens over verblijfsstatus en
> nationaliteit belangrijk zijn, kunt u zich er niet mee identificeren. Op het
> rijbewijs staat namelijk niets over uw nationaliteit en de verblijfsstatus.
> f.. < a valid Dutch drivers license, but in those situations where your
> nationality is important, a drivers license can not be used as ID.>
> Informatie over wanneer u welk identiteitsbewijs kunt gebruiken vindt u
> onder de interne link.
>
> Nederlandse nationaliteit en een andere nationaliteit
> Heeft u naast de Nederlandse nationaliteit een andere nationaliteit, dan
> kunt u zich identificeren met de bovenstaande Nederlandse documenten.
>
> Nationaliteit van een EU/EER land
>
> < for individuals with nationality of a EU / EEA country>
> Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land van de Europese Unie (EU) of de
> Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met uw
> geldige paspoort of met een geldig EU/EER-vreemdelingendocument.
>
> < valid passport or valid EU / EEA aliens document>
>
>
>
>
> Nationaliteit van een niet-EU/EER land
>
> < nationality of non-EU / non-EEA country>
>
>
> Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land buiten de Europese Unie (EU) of de
> Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met een
> geldig Nederlands vreemdelingendocument (verblijfsdocument).
>
> <valid Dutch aliens document (residence permit)>
>
> Ongeldige documenten
> U kunt u niet identificeren met allerlei andere pasjes en kaarten, zoals een
> openbaarvervoerkaart, bromfietscertificaat, collegekaart, bankpas of
> zwemabonnement. U kunt u ook niet identificeren met een identiteitsbewijs
> dat verlopen of anderszins ongeldig is.
>
> < documents that are no longer valid (expired) can not be used>
>
> Een kopie van uw paspoort, identiteitskaart, rijbewijs of
> vreemdelingendocument is geen geldig identiteitsbewijs. U kunt zich er niet
> mee identificeren. De echtheidskenmerken die op het originele document zijn
> aangebracht kunnen op een kopie niet worden gecontroleerd.
>
> < copies of documents can not be used >
>
> It seems that these documents are needed for residents of the Netherlands.
> Visitors can use any document that is valid for crossing the border into the
> Netherlands.
>
> Sjoerd
>
>
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or I will be penalized.
Sjoerd wrote:
> "Alan (in Brussels)" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>What about:
>>- another EU member-State's residence permit issued to an EU expatriate?
>>- an uncertified photocopy of any of the above-mentioned ID papers?
>>TIA for any info (citing its source).
>
>
> From:
> http://www.postbus51.nl
> (the Netherlands government's official information site)
> my (partial) translation in < >
>
> Met welke identiteitsbewijzen kan ik mij identificeren?
> <which ID is valid?
>
> Nederlandse nationaliteit
> Heeft u de Nederlandse nationaliteit, dan kunt u zich identificeren met de
> volgende documenten:
>
> <for individuals with Dutch nationality>
>
>
>
> a.. een geldig Nederlands paspoort;
> b.. < a valid Dutch passport>
> c.. een geldige Nederlandse identiteitskaart (voorheen Europese
> identiteitskaart);
> d.. < a valid Dutch ID card>
> e.. een geldig Nederlands rijbewijs. Het rijbewijs is een algemeen erkend
> identiteitsbewijs, maar in situaties waarin gegevens over verblijfsstatus en
> nationaliteit belangrijk zijn, kunt u zich er niet mee identificeren. Op het
> rijbewijs staat namelijk niets over uw nationaliteit en de verblijfsstatus.
> f.. < a valid Dutch drivers license, but in those situations where your
> nationality is important, a drivers license can not be used as ID.>
> Informatie over wanneer u welk identiteitsbewijs kunt gebruiken vindt u
> onder de interne link.
>
> Nederlandse nationaliteit en een andere nationaliteit
> Heeft u naast de Nederlandse nationaliteit een andere nationaliteit, dan
> kunt u zich identificeren met de bovenstaande Nederlandse documenten.
>
> Nationaliteit van een EU/EER land
>
> < for individuals with nationality of a EU / EEA country>
> Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land van de Europese Unie (EU) of de
> Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met uw
> geldige paspoort of met een geldig EU/EER-vreemdelingendocument.
>
> < valid passport or valid EU / EEA aliens document>
>
>
>
>
> Nationaliteit van een niet-EU/EER land
>
> < nationality of non-EU / non-EEA country>
>
>
> Heeft u de nationaliteit van een land buiten de Europese Unie (EU) of de
> Europese Economische Ruimte (EER), dan kunt u zich identificeren met een
> geldig Nederlands vreemdelingendocument (verblijfsdocument).
>
> <valid Dutch aliens document (residence permit)>
>
> Ongeldige documenten
> U kunt u niet identificeren met allerlei andere pasjes en kaarten, zoals een
> openbaarvervoerkaart, bromfietscertificaat, collegekaart, bankpas of
> zwemabonnement. U kunt u ook niet identificeren met een identiteitsbewijs
> dat verlopen of anderszins ongeldig is.
>
> < documents that are no longer valid (expired) can not be used>
>
> Een kopie van uw paspoort, identiteitskaart, rijbewijs of
> vreemdelingendocument is geen geldig identiteitsbewijs. U kunt zich er niet
> mee identificeren. De echtheidskenmerken die op het originele document zijn
> aangebracht kunnen op een kopie niet worden gecontroleerd.
>
> < copies of documents can not be used >
>
> It seems that these documents are needed for residents of the Netherlands.
> Visitors can use any document that is valid for crossing the border into the
> Netherlands.
>
> Sjoerd
>
>
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
Jan 10th 2005 | 5:14 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
"John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
> that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
> my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
penalized.
Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
you for ID.
Sjoerd
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
> that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
> my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
penalized.
Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
you for ID.
Sjoerd
Jan 10th 2005 | 6:46 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
In article <[email protected]>, Sjoerd
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
> > Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
> > that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
> > my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
> penalized.
>
> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
> you for ID.
Are you avoiding travel to Holland until these draconian measures are
rescinded, IIRC... that was your position on travel to the U.S. due to
fingerprinting....
jay
Mon Jan 10, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
>
> Sjoerd
>
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
> > Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
> > that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
> > my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
> penalized.
>
> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
> you for ID.
Are you avoiding travel to Holland until these draconian measures are
rescinded, IIRC... that was your position on travel to the U.S. due to
fingerprinting....
jay
Mon Jan 10, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
>
> Sjoerd
>
Jan 10th 2005 | 7:30 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
Sjoerd wrote:
> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>>that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>>my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
>
> penalized.
>
> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
> you for ID.
But it's revealing that any police official is entitled to ask for one,
whether or not you have broken any law. It seems that in the Netherlands
the citizen has to answer to the state, instead of the state being
answerable to the citizen, as should be the case in a genuine democracy.
> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>>that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>>my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
>
> penalized.
>
> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
> you for ID.
But it's revealing that any police official is entitled to ask for one,
whether or not you have broken any law. It seems that in the Netherlands
the citizen has to answer to the state, instead of the state being
answerable to the citizen, as should be the case in a genuine democracy.
Jan 10th 2005 | 8:28 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
> But it's revealing that any police official is entitled to ask for
one,
> whether or not you have broken any law. It seems that in the
Netherlands
> the citizen has to answer to the state, instead of the state being
> answerable to the citizen, as should be the case in a genuine
democracy.
The sole fact that policemen can ask for an ID (not only ID cards) at
any time does not make a democracy less than genuine. Random stop &
search for people without ID should, but I would be greatly surprised
if the situation was similar to that.
ID cards are a convenient, homogenous and reasonably
falsification-proof way of identifying oneself whenever necessary. Many
countries are already using them since years ago and human rights are
not suffering from them.
The problem is, as always, that any change in the statu quo inmediately
arises criticism, no matter there is any net gain or not.
Give the people a couple (or ten) years and the arguments will be over.
J.
> But it's revealing that any police official is entitled to ask for
one,
> whether or not you have broken any law. It seems that in the
Netherlands
> the citizen has to answer to the state, instead of the state being
> answerable to the citizen, as should be the case in a genuine
democracy.
The sole fact that policemen can ask for an ID (not only ID cards) at
any time does not make a democracy less than genuine. Random stop &
search for people without ID should, but I would be greatly surprised
if the situation was similar to that.
ID cards are a convenient, homogenous and reasonably
falsification-proof way of identifying oneself whenever necessary. Many
countries are already using them since years ago and human rights are
not suffering from them.
The problem is, as always, that any change in the statu quo inmediately
arises criticism, no matter there is any net gain or not.
Give the people a couple (or ten) years and the arguments will be over.
J.
Jan 10th 2005 | 8:28 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
As referring to Holland, are there any certificates (proof of competence) required from people sailing on the yachts ?
JaC
> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times.
> As long as you don't break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask you for ID.
JaC
> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times.
> As long as you don't break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask you for ID.
Jan 10th 2005 | 9:21 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dutch boat certificates (proof of competence) was Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:28:47 +0100, " 666" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>As referring to Holland, are there any certificates (proof of competence) required from people sailing on the yachts ?
Only needed if you are in charge of a boat over 12 metres long or
*capable* of more than 15km/hour. For Dutch residents Vaarbewijs 1&2
are needed, for anybody else an ICC is sufficient. If you are American
you need a recognised US equivalent.
--
Martin
wrote:
>As referring to Holland, are there any certificates (proof of competence) required from people sailing on the yachts ?
Only needed if you are in charge of a boat over 12 metres long or
*capable* of more than 15km/hour. For Dutch residents Vaarbewijs 1&2
are needed, for anybody else an ICC is sufficient. If you are American
you need a recognised US equivalent.
--
Martin
Jan 10th 2005 | 9:23 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 23:46:41 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Sjoerd
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>> > that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>> > my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
>> penalized.
>>
>> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
>> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
>> you for ID.
>Are you avoiding travel to Holland until these draconian measures are
>rescinded, IIRC... that was your position on travel to the U.S. due to
>fingerprinting....
The Dutch Koninglijke Marechause immigration people are asking for
powers to finger print as well.
--
Martin
>In article <[email protected]>, Sjoerd
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>> > that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>> > my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
>> penalized.
>>
>> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
>> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
>> you for ID.
>Are you avoiding travel to Holland until these draconian measures are
>rescinded, IIRC... that was your position on travel to the U.S. due to
>fingerprinting....
The Dutch Koninglijke Marechause immigration people are asking for
powers to finger print as well.
--
Martin
Jan 10th 2005 | 10:25 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:23:00 GMT, John Bermont
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or I will be penalized.
I've never carried my passport in NL, on a bike or otherwise. You
probably have a higher chance of being run over cycling in NL, than
being asked to produce a passport.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or I will be penalized.
I've never carried my passport in NL, on a bike or otherwise. You
probably have a higher chance of being run over cycling in NL, than
being asked to produce a passport.
--
Martin
Jan 10th 2005 | 10:29 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dutch rush to get ID cards
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:30:02 +0000, Mike O'Sullivan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Sjoerd wrote:
>> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>>>that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>>>my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
>>
>> penalized.
>>
>> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
>> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
>> you for ID.
>But it's revealing that any police official is entitled to ask for one,
>whether or not you have broken any law. It seems that in the Netherlands
>the citizen has to answer to the state, instead of the state being
>answerable to the citizen, as should be the case in a genuine democracy.
At least one has a large choice of parties with different policies,
when voting and the MP/PM isn't related to a previous MP/PM.
The Dutch political system is about as near to a real democracy as
you'll find.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Sjoerd wrote:
>> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Thanks for the posting and translation, Sjoerd. It seems pretty clear
>>>that I should not pedal around Haarlem again with nothing but a copy of
>>>my passport in my pocket. It must be the real thing or > I will be
>>
>> penalized.
>>
>> Well, I for one won't be carrying ID at all times. As long as you don't
>> break any other law, chances are extremely small that anyone will ever ask
>> you for ID.
>But it's revealing that any police official is entitled to ask for one,
>whether or not you have broken any law. It seems that in the Netherlands
>the citizen has to answer to the state, instead of the state being
>answerable to the citizen, as should be the case in a genuine democracy.
At least one has a large choice of parties with different policies,
when voting and the MP/PM isn't related to a previous MP/PM.
The Dutch political system is about as near to a real democracy as
you'll find.
--
Martin
