"Emilia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] .54...
    > "Kato" <[email protected]> wrote in news:rDy2e.18405$C47.2554
    > @newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
    > > Lately, I've been hearing that most people now only carry a copy of
their
    > > passports while walking around on vacation. While leaving the original
    > > in the hotel safe or hidden well in the suitcase. Is this wise?
    > >
    > > Am I missing something by carrying the original around?
    > I would strongly advice you not to leave your passport (or other
valuables)
    > "well hidden" in your suitcase. Professional thieves already know where
    > these hidding places are. I suggest you leave it in the hotel only if you
    > have use of a safe.

I leave mine in carryon bag, which can be locked. I think that passport
theft is most likely to be committed by hotel staff, who will have access to
the safe. However, in all my years of travelling around the world, I've
never once had anything stolen from my hotel room. On the other hand,
though none were ever successful, I've been subjected to pickpocket attempts
on 1 or 2 occassions.

I never carry my passport with me when I'm out of the hotel. I carry a
color photocopy of the first page, and have a scan available for download
from the internet. Also, in all my years of travel, I've never been asked
to produce my actual passport, except at airports and hotels upon checkin.

"Jim Ley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:01:24 -0800, "PTravel" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > >"Kato" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]. com...
    > >> Lately, I've been hearing that most people now only carry a copy of
their
    > >> passports while walking around on vacation. While leaving the original
    > >> in the hotel safe or hidden well in the suitcase. Is this wise?
    > >>
    > >> Am I missing something by carrying the original around?
    > >
    > >You're running the risk of losing it or having it stolen. Having to
replace
    > >a passport is a sure way to ruin at least part of a vacation.
    > How does it "ruin" a holiday - you visit your embassy or consulate,
    > you chat to the nice people in there, they sort you out.

You visit your embassy or consulate, spend hours convincing the consular
official that you are, in fact, a citizen of your country. You then pay a
substantial fee, and wait, sometimes for many days, for the new passport to
issue. During this time, you're paying for extra days in a hotel, missing
transfers to other cities and countries, etc.

    > Okay it takes some time, it's inconvenient, but does it really "ruin"
    > the entire holiday?

I didn't say it ruins the entire holiday. I said, "losing a passport is a
sure way to ruin at least part of a vacation."

From your use of the term, "holiday," I'm going to hazard a guess that
you're not an American. Perhaps the embassies and consulates of your
country are helpful and efficient to citizens in distress. American
embassies and consulates have a long history of being difficult,
unresponsive and unhelpful.

    > Jim.

    > From: Des Small <[email protected]>
    > Organization: Linux Private Site
    > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    > Date: 31 Mar 2005 16:51:04 +0100
    > Subject: Re: carry passport or copy
    >
    > Earl Evleth <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> On 31/03/05 17:26, in article [email protected], "Des
    >> Small" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Earl Evleth <[email protected]> writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Otherwise in my 30 years of living in France I can't remember having
    >>>> my identity controlled
    >>>
    >>> You're going native: "checked" is idiomatique Engleesh for
    >>> « contrôlé ».
    >>>
    >>
    >> Might be. Google gave 130 hits for "identity controlled"
    >
    > The front page of which makes it clear that it isn't being used in
    > the sense of "checked". It simply doesn't mean that in English.
    >
    >> and 704 for "identity checked". Identity verified got 56,000
    >> however.
    >
    > There's 5,930 for "ID checked". "Identity verified" does appear to be
    > the Authorised Bureaucratese, though.
    >
    > Des

So you're both right. "Controlled" is wrong, but "checked" is not right.
Pin a rose on both your noses.

Donna Evleth

    > From: [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses o'
    > th' barn)
    > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:19:22 +0100
    > Subject: Re: carry passport or copy
    >
    > Keith W <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "irwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:55:39 +0100, [email protected]
    >>
    >>> We have just finished booking two hotels in London
    >>> on the internet. One because booking ahead is essential
    >>> to ensure a room and (2) to get a decent rate.
    >>> Both bookings require Credit Card confirmation and
    >>> also require a photo ID at check-in.
    >>
    >> I have NEVER been asked for a photo ID in a UK hotel
    >
    > Indeed- wouldn't it be a rather eccentric request- given that not
    > everyone in the UK is in possession of one! I think the poster's 'avin a
    > larf!

Here in France, foreigners used to have to fill out a "fiche" with passport
number, home address, etc. This does not seem to be the case any more. Our
foreign accent used to invite this in France, but when we were in Normandy
last weekend, no one offered us a fiche to fill out. The credit card was
what they wanted. French hotels used to accept checks (a few still do) but
most want credit cards, and forget the fiche.

I still remember the last time we were asked to fill out a fiche. It was in
1999, at the Hôtel de l'Abbaye, in Clairvaux, in the department of the Aube.
On our first stay there, they asked us to fill out the fiche, we produced
our French identity cards which means we are citizens and don't have to do
this. They never asked us about the fiche again, although we stayed there
every two weeks for six years. And they always accepted checks.

There was one thing special about the Hôtel de l'Abbaye. It was right
across the street from the Clairvaux maximum security prison. Despite the
fact that the hotel management knew that we were prison visitors, we always
had a good relationship. We were discreet, never letting on to the real
tourists in the area what we were, and we were steady customers. They miss
us now that we are gone.

Donna Evleth


    >
    > --
    > David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    > usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

    > From: Mike O'Sullivan <[email protected]>
    > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:32:40 +0100
    > Subject: Re: carry passport or copy
    >
    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn wrote:
    >>
    >> FWIW, I'm on record as supporting a voluntary ID card scheme. I just
    >> don't like the idea of either having to carry one all the time, or
    >> _having_ to get one- just like you don't _have_ to own a passport.
    >> However, it would be useful in some situations- domestic flights for
    >> example, where I'd rather have a credit card-sized ID. I suppose you can
    >> use a photo driving license in that scenario- but I don't have one!
    >
    > Voluntary at first is likely to creep into compulsary by gradual steps.
    > I was interested to read that the Glastonbury pop festival organisers
    > are for the first time, insisting on photo ID for young people to verify
    > age. They are asking for photo driving license or a Citizencard. I can
    > forsee that it will eventually be impossible to access a wide range of
    > goods or services without such ID.

Here in France, voluntary has remained voluntary. Most people believe that
identity cards are mandatory here. We believed this until we were
naturalized French. Then the officials at the Prefecture of Police where we
picked up our decrees told us where we could get French identity cards, but
assured us that they were not mandatory. Websites tell the same thing even
now. However, as we knew that these were useful documents to have for check
cashing, etc. we went ahead and got them anyway. Here in the EU we can also
use them instead of passports, as we do when we go on vacation each year to
Greece.

Donna Evleth
    >
    >

    > From: "PTravel" <[email protected]>
    > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:26:57 -0800
    > Subject: Re: carry passport or copy
    >
    >
    > "Jim Ley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:01:24 -0800, "PTravel" <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "Kato" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected] om...
    >>>> Lately, I've been hearing that most people now only carry a copy of
    > their
    >>>> passports while walking around on vacation. While leaving the original
    >>>> in the hotel safe or hidden well in the suitcase. Is this wise?
    >>>>
    >>>> Am I missing something by carrying the original around?
    >>>
    >>> You're running the risk of losing it or having it stolen. Having to
    > replace
    >>> a passport is a sure way to ruin at least part of a vacation.
    >>
    >> How does it "ruin" a holiday - you visit your embassy or consulate,
    >> you chat to the nice people in there, they sort you out.
    >
    > You visit your embassy or consulate, spend hours convincing the consular
    > official that you are, in fact, a citizen of your country. You then pay a
    > substantial fee, and wait, sometimes for many days, for the new passport to
    > issue. During this time, you're paying for extra days in a hotel, missing
    > transfers to other cities and countries, etc.
    >
    >>
    >> Okay it takes some time, it's inconvenient, but does it really "ruin"
    >> the entire holiday?
    >
    > I didn't say it ruins the entire holiday. I said, "losing a passport is a
    > sure way to ruin at least part of a vacation."
    >
    > From your use of the term, "holiday," I'm going to hazard a guess that
    > you're not an American. Perhaps the embassies and consulates of your
    > country are helpful and efficient to citizens in distress. American
    > embassies and consulates have a long history of being difficult,
    > unresponsive and unhelpful.

My last visit to the American consulate here in Paris (2003) confirms what
you say abqout "difficult, unresponsive and unhelpful." I was not in any
emergency situation. I live here, and I was merely renewing my American
passport. I still had trouble.

American passport photos are a different size than the photos sold in local
photo machines. I knew this, so I went to one of the photo shops
recommended on the consulate website as doing acceptable photos for American
passports. When I got to the consulate, the woman at the counter, without
even looking at my photos, announced to me: "Your photos are too small." I
had to argue with her, insist that she look at them. She finally agreed
that they were the right size. I was not in distress. I knew already what
to do to get the proper photos. I have lived her for 30 years, which is why
I knew. But suppose I was a tourist who had been robbed, did not speak a
word of French, and did not know that American passport photos have to be a
special size. Being hassled by the official at the consulate would
certainly ruin at least part of my vacation.

Donna Evleth
    >
    >>
    >> Jim.
    >>
    >
    >

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:26:57 -0800, "PTravel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
    >You visit your embassy or consulate, spend hours convincing the consular
    >official that you are, in fact, a citizen of your country. You then pay a
    >substantial fee, and wait, sometimes for many days, for the new passport to
    >issue. During this time, you're paying for extra days in a hotel, missing
    >transfers to other cities and countries, etc.

Yes, then you claim all those extra costs from your travel insurance,
total cost is basically just those few hours in the consulate, whilst
you may be waiting a number of other days before actually getting the
passport, you're still on holiday... You don't have to sit there
waiting, as to missing transfers, then you're rushing about too much,
sit back, relax more, if you're missing meeting up with someone, get
on the phone or the internet and arrange to meet them later...

Jim.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:50 +0100, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:

    >irwell <[email protected]> wrote:
    >[]
    >> We have just finished booking two hotels in London
    >> on the internet. One because booking ahead is essential
    >> to ensure a room and (2) to get a decent rate.
    >> Both bookings require Credit Card confirmation and
    >> also require a photo ID at check-in.
    >Which hotels? I've never once had to show a photo ID at a UK hotel. They
    >might need to see a passport for a foreign arrival, but even that is
    >rare.
The same requirements are for the National/Imperial/Tavistock
group of hotels, and the second is for the Royal Norfolk at Paddington.
Do a 'dummy' booking and see for yourself, anyway that is what it
states on the confimations from both groups.
    >> Same with the
    >> Eurostar reservation and booking, the tix are to be
    >> picked up at Waterloo and the Credit Card used for the
    >> booking and a phot ID will be required.
    >Do you have a quote on that? I find it hard to believe as you can pick
    >up your tickets from _automated_ ticket machines. All you need is the
    >card you used for the booking.
Here is the exact quote from the Eurostar confirmation, again try a
'dummy booking' if you don't believe it.
Important
Your ticket(s) will be available to collect from the Self Service
Ticket machine or the Eurostar ticket desk at your departure station.

On your day of travel:
Please allow at least 45 minutes before your departure time to allow
tickets to be issued.
Be ready to show the credit/debit card used for payment, a form
of ID and your booking reference above to receive your tickets.
Please note that the owner of the credit/debit card used as payment
must be present.
Don't forget your passport or travel documents.





    >> The UK as usual is being dragged and screaming into the
    >> modern world.
    >The UK is already in the modern world. Having to show photo ID is not
    >necessarily part of that equation.

Donna Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
    > My last visit to the American consulate here in Paris (2003) confirms what
    > you say abqout "difficult, unresponsive and unhelpful." I was not in any
    > emergency situation. I live here, and I was merely renewing my American
    > passport. I still had trouble.
    >
    > American passport photos are a different size than the photos sold in local
    > photo machines. I knew this, so I went to one of the photo shops
    > recommended on the consulate website as doing acceptable photos for American
    > passports. When I got to the consulate, the woman at the counter, without
    > even looking at my photos, announced to me: "Your photos are too small." I
    > had to argue with her, insist that she look at them. She finally agreed
    > that they were the right size.

Sounds like she was being difficult.

One doesn't renew a passport that often I suppose, but would it not have
been easier by post? My partner did that with his US passport renewal a
few weeks ago in the UK, and from sending off the old passport with the
application form etc., it only took 10 days until the new passport
arrived. There was only one 'approved' shop in Manchester for the
photographs, run by a very surly man. A lot of people make their own
photographs now, apparently.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:36:18 +0100, Mike O'Sullivan
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >irwell wrote:
    >>
    >> We have just finished booking two hotels in London
    >> on the internet. One because booking ahead is essential
    >> to ensure a room and (2) to get a decent rate.
    >> Both bookings require Credit Card confirmation and
    >> also require a photo ID at check-in. Same with the
    >> Eurostar reservation and booking, the tix are to be
    >> picked up at Waterloo and the Credit Card used for the
    >> booking and a phot ID will be required.
    >> The UK as usual is being dragged and screaming into the
    >> modern world.
    >Did you think to ask yourself why they seem to require photo ID when a
    >credit card confirmation is, by itself, adequate safeguard?
Hey! it's their website, not mine.
Just the facts Ma-am, just the facts, as they used to say
on Dragnet.

"Jim Ley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:26:57 -0800, "PTravel" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >You visit your embassy or consulate, spend hours convincing the consular
    > >official that you are, in fact, a citizen of your country. You then pay
a
    > >substantial fee, and wait, sometimes for many days, for the new passport
to
    > >issue. During this time, you're paying for extra days in a hotel,
missing
    > >transfers to other cities and countries, etc.
    > Yes, then you claim all those extra costs from your travel insurance,
    > total cost is basically just those few hours in the consulate, whilst
    > you may be waiting a number of other days before actually getting the
    > passport, you're still on holiday...

I don't buy travel insurance.

And, yes, you're still on holiday and, possibly, paying extortionate hotel
rates because you had to extend your stay at the last minute, not seeing the
other locations you had planned to visit, wasting endless time either
calling or visiting the consulate asking, "is it soup yet?"


    > You don't have to sit there
    > waiting, as to missing transfers, then you're rushing about too much,
    > sit back, relax more, if you're missing meeting up with someone, get
    > on the phone or the internet and arrange to meet them later...

I am, constantly, both fascinated and appalled by people who think the way
they live their lives is the only way anyone should live their lives.

I've just returned from two weeks in China, split more-or-less evenly
between Beijing and Shanghai. If I had lost my passport towards the end of
my stay in Beijing, I would have missed an important business meeting in
Shanghai which could not be re-scheduled, I would have exhausted my free
award stay and would have had to pay for a hotel room that I can ill-afford,
I would have missed my flight and had to try to find another seat on another
day at very short notice, and I would have missed the opportunity to see
Shanghai.

And you know what? I'm a very experienced international traveler, I'm very
comfortable with the way that I travel, and I find your approach to travel
unappealing. However, feel absolutely free to continue as you have -- it's
none of my business.

    > Jim.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:16:38 +0100, "Keith W" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >"irwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:55:39 +0100, [email protected]
    >> We have just finished booking two hotels in London
    >> on the internet. One because booking ahead is essential
    >> to ensure a room and (2) to get a decent rate.
    >> Both bookings require Credit Card confirmation and
    >> also require a photo ID at check-in.
    >I have NEVER been asked for a photo ID in a UK hotel
    >> Same with the
    >> Eurostar reservation and booking, the tix are to be
    >> picked up at Waterloo and the Credit Card used for the
    >> booking and a phot ID will be required.
    >Since Eurostar crosses a national border a passport or
    >acceptable alternative is naturally required
    >> The UK as usual is being dragged and screaming into the
    >> modern world.
    >Why do you consider it a 'modern' thing that bureaucrats
    >and policemen can demand you present proof of your ID ?
    >Keith
Well I suppose events like 9/11 and Madrid Train Station
are part of the 'modern' state of affairs. BTW all British
Citizens were required to carry ID cards during WW2 and up
to about 1952, even infants and children, still have mine.

irwell <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:50 +0100, [email protected]
    > (chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:
    >
    > >irwell <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >[]
    > >> We have just finished booking two hotels in London
    > >> on the internet. One because booking ahead is essential
    > >> to ensure a room and (2) to get a decent rate.
    > >> Both bookings require Credit Card confirmation and
    > >> also require a photo ID at check-in.
    > >
    > >Which hotels? I've never once had to show a photo ID at a UK hotel. They
    > >might need to see a passport for a foreign arrival, but even that is
    > >rare.
    > The same requirements are for the National/Imperial/Tavistock
    > group of hotels, and the second is for the Royal Norfolk at Paddington.
    > Do a 'dummy' booking and see for yourself, anyway that is what it
    > states on the confimations from both groups.

If it did, it's a load of rubbish- you will not need to show a photo ID
at check-in. If you're from outside the UK, you'll be asked to fill in
your passport information. They will not look at your passport however.

    > >> Same with the
    > >> Eurostar reservation and booking, the tix are to be
    > >> picked up at Waterloo and the Credit Card used for the
    > >> booking and a phot ID will be required.
    > >
    > >Do you have a quote on that? I find it hard to believe as you can pick
    > >up your tickets from _automated_ ticket machines. All you need is the
    > >card you used for the booking.
    > Here is the exact quote from the Eurostar confirmation, again try a
    > 'dummy booking' if you don't believe it.

I don't need to. I've travelled Eurostar before, and I picked up the
tickets by using the self service ticket machine.

    > Important
    > Your ticket(s) will be available to collect from the Self Service
    > Ticket machine or the Eurostar ticket desk at your departure station.
    >
    > On your day of travel:
    > Please allow at least 45 minutes before your departure time to allow
    > tickets to be issued.
    > Be ready to show the credit/debit card used for payment, a form
    > of ID

Which in the UK can be almost anything- not necessarily a photo ID.
Notice it doesn't say photo ID, which is what you claimed it did.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

irwell <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
    > Well I suppose events like 9/11 and Madrid Train Station
    > are part of the 'modern' state of affairs.

Spain's ID cards did nothing to prevent that atrocity.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:08:13 -0800, "PTravel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
    >I don't buy travel insurance.

So maybe that is something to do instead of recommending people take
excessive precuations with their passport.

    >And, yes, you're still on holiday and, possibly, paying extortionate hotel
    >rates because you had to extend your stay at the last minute, not seeing the
    >other locations you had planned to visit,

Why does not having your passport do anything to stop you visiting
places in the same country?

    >wasting endless time either
    >calling or visiting the consulate asking, "is it soup yet?"

Why would you bother doing this? if they've told you it'll take a
week, it'll take a week, you don't need to call them until then.

    >I am, constantly, both fascinated and appalled by people who think the way
    >they live their lives is the only way anyone should live their lives.

I don't quite see how that follows from my suggestion to not stress
about not having your passport so as it ruins your holiday, but to
just carry on enjoying your holiday.

    >I've just returned from two weeks in China, split more-or-less evenly
    >between Beijing and Shanghai. If I had lost my passport towards the end of
    >my stay in Beijing, I would have missed an important business meeting in
    >Shanghai which could not be re-scheduled,

I didn't realise you required a passport to travel from Beijing to
Shanghai?

Jim.