The embarrassment factor
 

I'm talking about being a Brit in Portugal when other Brits behave in an appalling manner

Went to one of our favourite little restaurants last night. It overlooks a now very famous beach. (made even more famous now by that 'blasted' TA site:eek:)

Our lovely waiter was a bit 'off' with us at the beginning of the evening,but eventually told us why. He had been subjected to abuse from a group of English men who had eaten there the night before. They had simple drunk themselves into the by now familiar loud 'stupor' our countrymen are sadly known for.. but not usually in our town.
He was embarrassed as he had had to ask them to 'take it outside' as they were upsetting other diners,some of whom had children with them.He didn't say what they had called him...but we could guess

We felt we had to apologise to him on behalf of our countrymen..but it made me seeth with anger that it should be necessary. I found I was grinding my teeth and wishing I had been there to give them a piece of my mind...
I know I would have done... but would it have been wise? Would you have intervened if you had been there?
All this publicity for our lovely Portugal is wonderful,but not if it brings 'yobs' like this to our beautiful shores. I am still upset by it

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Funny you should mention that........ A friend of mine was in a cafe in the Porto area last night & a drunken Irishman got into a punch up that resulted in a little old lady getting knocked to the floor.

Apparently it took 5 cops & 4 Bombeiros to pin the guy down & cart him away to the cells.

That sort of thing we certainly don't need. :(

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

We get this problem in Budapest as well - & it's not just through drink but often arrogant behaviour by Brits who should know better.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

i love Carvoeiro - it has a great mix of different nationalities living there who virtually all get along really well and a friendly family atmosphere that makes it nice even at the height of the tourist season
Sadly what it does have is that tiny minority of expats who believe they own the place
The absolute worst of the 'british empire' we rule the waves are the most important people in the world etc - a tiny minority well known to the people who live there
A couple of years ago we were in one of our favourite restaurants there in the summertime and they were already there and had ordered whilst we had an aperitif - very loud so difficult to not notice them - i don't know them but had seen them around several times
we were just sitting down at our table when their food arrived - they made the worlds biggest fuss - said they didn't want their meals - too long coming they said - and walked out - the poor portuguese waiter had no idea what to do
They had waited no more than 15 - 20 mins - in summertime
We called the waiter over - we hadn't ordered - and said whatever it was we would take their meal - and very nice it was too
Sadly it doesn't take many like that to ruin a small place - the good old British attitude rules the waves and makes us the least popular foreigners in Europe

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Quite so - the other day we heard a couple complaining vociferously that they had waited a whole 5 minutes for their bill, in a very busy restaurant.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I do not think that it is an exclusively British thing.
We know a bar owner who has dress standards, no beach wear, no shirt no shoes no service.
He gets abuse from just about every nationality who visits his bar .
I think the problem is partly due to the fact thst we live increasingly pressurised lives and expect the same immediate service we are used to when grabbing a rushed lunch or snack for the other 40 plus weeks of the year.
Chill out , you are on holiday.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I'm not defending the Brits when I say this but my Portuguese language teacher says that the French are by far the rudest tourists. Just her opinion of course :o

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It happens, sometimes through drink, sometimes not - and some people just shouldn't be allowed to go anywhere....

Last year i had a small fire on my property (accidentally caused by a neighbour). The GNR attended to take details and statements and I was talking to the GNR lieutenant, who came from Lisbon and spoke really good English. When I gave him my ID, he asked if I knew another countryman of mine in the area - I didn't. he then told me they'd had to visit this guy's property the week before and he'd gone out of his way to be as obnoxious as possible (given that they're armed).

It didn't seem to affect the way he treated me, but it was obviously fresh in his mind. Hopefully it was a one-off, or else cases like that will spoil things for all of us.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

It may not be exclusively British but the British here are clearly the worst, and their attitude stems, as described above, from their perception of their own importance and a wholesale disrespect of all things "foreign".

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

It's true that the French can be rude, though not violent, but there is some "baggage" here.....

Due to the huge number of those of Portuguese origin in France, there is often a friction when they come back, as they're seen to "show off" and compare things to how it is in France - which doesn't sit well. There is even a slang term for them "Avecs".

If you scratch the surface, all nationalities have "characteristics", just as in the UK. Sometimes they are warranted, sometimes not. However, it is unfortunate that a number of British and Irish tourists come here and are unused to the strength of the beer and the low cost. At 5%, it doesn't take many canecas to bring out their worst side. Allied to the attitude that everyone should speak English and that everything is worse than "at home", it's surprising that we are still welcome here at all.....

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

in a 25 year plus association with the algarve and Carvoeiro in particular - 100's of nights in the town in total the only people i ever encountered who didn't know how to behave were - 1 icelandic guy - so drunk he was fighting with his own shadow - 2 irish girls who tried to pick a fight with everyone who walked past them - and sadly many Brits - at least a significant handful every year

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Sounds like we have a better class of tourist lout in my area because so far, in my 6 years here we haven't even heard of such bad behaviour! ;)

Sorry guys. Only joking.

Bad behaviour is bad behaviour wherever someone comes from & I guess all countries (unfortunately) have their fair share of louts.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

i speak passable French and i've heard arguments with French people on holiday - arguments in German families - arguments within Portuguese groups -
but what seems to diferentiate the Brits is they want inflict their problems on everyone - friends families - bar and restaurant staff - passing strangers
we truely are in European terms a race apart

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Nothing installs greater pride in ones country than meeting a drunk person wearing a football shirt and them wanting to be your mate

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

.... and then punching you.

I don't know why you included the Corbyn clip from the LDs - the question was clearly akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" and designed to provide headlines whatever his answer. It was a stupid question, which he showed great patience in answering time and time again. It also has nothing to do with this topic.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Who included the Corbin clip?

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

There has been an thread going on the TripAdvisor Algarve forum about the negative effects drunken Brits, hen and stag parties are having on what was once an area free of such groups.
Not only are they discouraging families and other Brits they confirm the impression many other nationalities have of us.
You cannot really blame the bar owners who have struggled during years of recession but something has to change.
The behaviour of these groups never will.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

It was in the large space that is now under your previous comment - if not added by you, then I apologise but my comment on the clip stands.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I wonder if the inability to enjoy a drink without getting drunk is a nordic trait?

Unfortunately the bar staff don't force people to drink to excess, but it happens all too often. How many times have you seen a Portuguese person too drunk to stand up or trying to take on the world?

Cheap booze is often the excuse for bad behaviour - yet it happens in every city in the UK and ireland every weekend........

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

A doctor tried to explain it in part to me once - relating to Brits
Because we come from a cool climate - the combitation of alcohol and heat is a bad combition - the adjustment to the heat affects our nervous system - working hard to make our body adjust - dehydration and other effects etc - especially with a littlel added sunburn which in turn makes the alcohol effect us more
Personally i think its just a load of ignorant spoiled brats with no manners and more money than sense - but i was young once too :o

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I'm not sure education or lack of it is a major factor....... look for example at Charlie Gilmour who despite having a good education thought it acceptable to swing from the Cenotaph but I think you could also add a lack of good upbringing & respect for others to that list as well.

I also tend to think the PC modern parenting attitude has a lot to be responsible for...... I never raised my hand to my kids because a look was enough but sometimes the good old five point plan or even the threat of it can work wonders with children who lack respect.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Be fair, it's hard to discipline your kids when you've got a fag in one hand and the TV remote in the other - and Family Guy's on after the footie........:sarcasm:

At my school we were strapped for midemeanours (sometimes unfairly) so you learned to make sure that you were in the right (not just not doing wrong). I would never have come home to tell my folks that I'd got a clipped ear from the Garda - because I'd get another one, no question. Same result. But now....... I'm not suggesting that we need to return to corporal punishment - but the lack of discipline stems from the fact that there is no penalty for misbehaving.

These things start early - next time you're in a restaurant, watch the Portuguese kids eating. Then watch the average British family at table..... There are always exceptions, but in general I've seen a marked difference in behaviour. But then again, of course, Johnny has ADHD, Simon is slightly autistic, Mary is dyslexic, Janet has coeliac disease, whereas poor little Pedro just has to sit and eat what he's given....

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I agree completely........ it's very rare to see a badly behaved Portuguese child here whereas it's relatively rare to see a well behaved Brit child here.

But that said, I'm old enough to remember seeing two adolescent children get a poes klaap from an adult (who turned out to be their teacher) walking behind them simply because they'd failed to raise their hats to me............. he made them chase after me, apologise & then do as they should have done in the first place. :rofl:

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I bet you wouldn't translate that expression from Afrikaans :sneaky:

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Life must be tough for some 21st century .
We're they white or black children. .?

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

You might be right........ I'll ignore the direct translation & instead give the polite one which is a slap around the head, usually the back of the head as in a clip around the ear for being a bit of an idiot. ;)

Funny how some foreign phrases sometimes stay in the mind so long because they're somehow so much more expressive than the English version & I still find I occasionally use them without thinking.

Poes klaap & blixen have more or less the same meaning as a clip around the ear but they also mean soooooooo much more. ;)

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

They were white & from a very expensive & well known private school that incidentally took children of all colours.

Their sin was failing to raise their straw boaters to me as we passed each other.

Incidentally, it was 20th Century not 21st.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Exactly my point, it was a different time, different standards.

No relevance to today's world.

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Let's not conflate language with politics ...... Whilst I would never condone apartheid or any state segregation, I recognise that many white South Africans were also against apartheid (e.g. Helen Suzman, Joe Slovo, sailor Malan) and did far more than just not buy outspan oranges.

As for "different times, different standards" - be careful, that is often the cry of those who don't care to learn from history.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

I think there's every relevance........... the modern western world generally has much lower standards with regard to good manners & respect for others & it's largely that very thing that has caused so many of the younger generation to behave the way they do in many parts of western society

If you look at those societies that have maintained the older traditions like respect & discipline such as the rural Portuguese or even the more rural areas of Africa such as the north of Tanzania (Masailand), Rwanda & Uganda etc you'll quickly come to realise how big the difference is.

It's not incidentally about colour it's about the way the young are taught with a degree of discipline how to treat others.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

i've lived and worked in many parts of the world
In Europe we're mainly raised with the same influences - tv - music- christianity - culture
i lived for many years in france - the children in my view are the best behaved in Europe - the parents - not always - but still almost always civilised
The German children polite interested and outward looking
the Dutch - very Conservative in the main - certainly polite
Americans spoilt - ambitious - but mostly very polite
Belgiums - mostly polite if a little reserved - but open once you got to know them
Spanish - a bit iffy but always nice when Spanish adults were present
Portuguese - lively excitable often overindulged but mostly polite and cheerful
the one thing you could not say about any of the children i met in almost 20 years was uncontrolled obnoxious spoilt brat ignorant nightmare
i've met some lovely English children - but far too many that fit into the previous line

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

At the risk of going off topic; We must of course temper our opinions with the acceptance that just because our ways are our ways, they might not be the ways of other cultures & indeed it could sometimes be our ignorance of those other cultures that cause us to misunderstand the situation.

I've been in places where young (black) children have been misunderstood by other white people with me as being unfriendly & truculent.......... until I explained the kids that were standing around them, shuffling their feet and looking at the ground were actually showing respect & waiting for us Muzungus to gently tap each one on the forehead to acknowledge their presence so they could look up and talk to us.

Sometimes things aren't quite as straightforward as they first appear.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

Same in Hungary, children (& adults) generally much better mannered.

Little story - we have a neighbour (a journalist in his 30s) who on our 3rd meeting asked if he could address my Wife by her Christian name. She was quite happy about this & commented favourably. He then explained that while we could address our other neighbours as A**** & Zs***** he couldn't possibly and unless otherwise instructed would continue to address them as Mr & Mrs R****.

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

i think your experiences are interesting and unique
but in the world we now live in - mainland europe - things are sadly - in the case of the UK - very much as they appear
Of course there are always exceptions and culture continues to change so there's always hope for the future:fingerscrossed:

Re: The embarrassment factor
 

As with all things, time will tell but I think good parenting where parents are parents rather than best friends is largely the key.

If the kids aren't taught respect for others they simply won't have it no matter what country they live in.

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I take my hat off to you.

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Yikes Carve that is absolutely appalling ... poor waiter indeed as I'm sure he would have had to pay for those meals himself.

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Sorry EMR No excuses accepted for rude behaviour.. If you have to wait.. you wait.. end of

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Yep.. can agree they are often very rude...but vary rarely are they drunk and aggressive

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You are kidding aren't you Knoxy :o The next thing they do is punch you because you don't support their b****y team:eek: