8th June 2017 UK General Election
Apr 19th 2017, 11:49 am
#46
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
hey Guys
If we can't agree how Maggie / Maggy is spelt, can we agree that O.U.T spells out.
(Otherwise I want the whole selection process of who isn't 'IT' at school reported to UNICEF.)
If we can't agree how Maggie / Maggy is spelt, can we agree that O.U.T spells out.
(Otherwise I want the whole selection process of who isn't 'IT' at school reported to UNICEF.)
Apr 19th 2017, 12:41 pm
#47
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
Apr 19th 2017, 2:07 pm
#48
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
ALL politicians lie & ALL politics are & have always been post truth...... I'm in my 60s and can't remember any politicians ever doing anywhere near all they promised.
To expect otherwise is extremely naive.
Like May or loathe her or like Brexit or loathe it, we have to live with the situation as it is because that's democracy but that said, I personally think May has made a lot of mistakes but prefer her to the Corbyn alternative.
To expect otherwise is extremely naive.
Like May or loathe her or like Brexit or loathe it, we have to live with the situation as it is because that's democracy but that said, I personally think May has made a lot of mistakes but prefer her to the Corbyn alternative.
Suffice to say that as far as I'm concerned, whilst there are a few who submit to the temptations within their grasp there are many who are essentially honest, decent and committed and who are no doubt equally (or most probably even more) as horrified as the rest of us by the actions of those of their colleagues who don't uphold the standards expected of them.
That's not to say that none of them ever finds themselves compromised, for example, with their conscience on matters on which they are required to vote or that they can always speak freely, openly and sincerely about their own opinions on certain key matters. They are, generally, after all's said and done, required to be loyal to a party line on some things. Nor does it preclude the possibility of them changing their minds on certain issues with the passage of time and subsequent events - indeed, it is to be hoped that in certain circumstances they would do exactly that
Nor, indeed, does it preclude them from making minor errors of one sort or another.However, those are rather different matters from engaging in embezzlement, fraud and corruption or from lying about one's actions in order to attempt to salvage one's reputation or career. Or from deliberately lying in order to persuade the public one way or another on something.
To my mind there's far too much deliberate confusion of the one thing with the other, which is a big shame because it colours public opinion about the profession and no doubt discourages some perfectly suited individuals from considering it as a career. I feel just as much annoyance about seeing by and large truthful and honest politicians being trashed by distortion of the truth about their words and actions as I do when others engage in real skulduggery.
Apr 19th 2017, 3:14 pm
#49
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
I can only repeat that I wouldn't trust a single politician of any party & that I believe they all lie.
Getting back to May I think she muffed the Brexit issue from day 1 but that said, I'd still rather see her in charge than Corbyn.
Getting back to May I think she muffed the Brexit issue from day 1 but that said, I'd still rather see her in charge than Corbyn.
Apr 19th 2017, 4:21 pm
#50
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
It's all based on the assumption & presumption that our 'Betters' actually know what they're doing...
Strange though.... how the BBC coverage is so servile....
Maybe they have a deal if they're nice to the Tories, the HMRC investigation into the 100+ news staff evading taxes will go away.....
Apr 19th 2017, 4:43 pm
#51
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
(as I would be anyhow but having confidence that the country is being guided and led by the right types is an added bonus).I might add that they are garnering some not inconsiderable attention (not to mention envy) outside Portugal, as well
Apr 19th 2017, 4:47 pm
#52
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
It's all based on the assumption & presumption that our 'Betters' actually know what they're doing...
Strange though.... how the BBC coverage is so servile....
Maybe they have a deal if they're nice to the Tories, the HMRC investigation into the 100+ news staff evading taxes will go away.....
Apr 19th 2017, 4:50 pm
#53
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
Well that's a real pity in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned, Portugal has a very good crop of extremely able, dedicated and honest politicians right now who are devoting themselves to addressing matters of urgent importance to this country - with some considerable successes both internally and externally. It makes me very pleased to be living here right now (as I would be anyhow but having confidence that the country is being guided and led by the right types is an added bonus).
I might add that they are garnering some not inconsiderable attention (not to mention envy) outside Portugal, as well
(as I would be anyhow but having confidence that the country is being guided and led by the right types is an added bonus).I might add that they are garnering some not inconsiderable attention (not to mention envy) outside Portugal, as well
Apr 19th 2017, 5:11 pm
#54
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
It was the repeated use of the phrase "ALL politicians" which threw me - I'll try to bear in mind in future that when used by you that means all politicians currently sitting as MPs at Westminster, plus Nigel Farage.
Anyway, just thought I'd pass comment on Portugal's excellent political scene since, although it's not relevant to this particular thread, we are in the Portugal forum here. I wouldn't extend the same courtesy to eg Romanian, Kiwi or Japanese politicians on this thread though
Apr 19th 2017, 5:13 pm
#55
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Apr 20th 2017, 5:21 am
#56
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
What are people's views, does it make much difference to Ex-pats in PT, does it give Ex-pats any say in how they are treated during Brexit.
Would a stronger majority for the government mean a stronger negotiating position, or is it a land grab while the tide is out?
Remembering that whilst no view is wrong, it might not be commonly held by others.
Would a stronger majority for the government mean a stronger negotiating position, or is it a land grab while the tide is out?
Remembering that whilst no view is wrong, it might not be commonly held by others.
Ms May is convinced it's an early strike whilst people are unprepared.. mainly due to her saying she wouldn't hold an election right now... but there you go.. whats new in the lies told. She feels it will mean a walk over for the conservatives and give her a stronger hand.However.. many a slip twixt cup and lip as they say. Who knows what will happen in this mixed up world.
It means nothing in terms of negotiations.. This is not a 'war' These are trading partners. It's about deals ,and confidence in the person(people) making them.
The internal affairs of a country didn't matter before Brexit ,they won't matter after. What does matter is how civilly it is conducted
What will affect us therefore is how sensitively it is done. Can the UK come up with some decent diplomatic people to do it.? Do they care about their own ex-pat citizens living and working in the union they are preparing to abandon.?
Well so far they seem to be saying.. No they don't care. So that is a worry in terms of reciprocal agreements on things like health care, Insurance. residency, citizenship.etc We still have a long way to go
Apr 20th 2017, 5:38 am
#57
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
I never understood why Blair, an arch-populist, would court public disapproval by going to war with Iraq. I can only think that he was actually taken in by the bad intelligence and by those around him who wanted war - which is no excuse - but it's far short of a war crime. No matter how hard you chase the "Blair war crimes" story, it just doesn't add up.
I'm also a bit tired of those who bang on about Blair's "guilt", yet voted Churchill the "Greatest Briton". This the man responsible for 500,000 casualties in Gallipoli for no gain whatsoever, the man who sent the Black and Tans into Ireland to terrorise the civilian population, the man who advocated the use of gas against the tribes in Iraq, the man who had British troops open fire on demonstrators in Athens, killing 28.... and much, much more. At least Blair did not do "deals" which sent thousands of men, women and children to certain death or handed a sovereign allied nation to its enemy.
But of course, he was a Tory (eventually)
I'm also a bit tired of those who bang on about Blair's "guilt", yet voted Churchill the "Greatest Briton". This the man responsible for 500,000 casualties in Gallipoli for no gain whatsoever, the man who sent the Black and Tans into Ireland to terrorise the civilian population, the man who advocated the use of gas against the tribes in Iraq, the man who had British troops open fire on demonstrators in Athens, killing 28.... and much, much more. At least Blair did not do "deals" which sent thousands of men, women and children to certain death or handed a sovereign allied nation to its enemy.
But of course, he was a Tory (eventually)
People have very short memories.. depending on their politics. The conservatives loathed Blair because he outgunned them. Stole their style of politics.. and was popular. No one can claim he wasn't a charismatic speaker. He got things done and people listened to him..Even the queen, over the death of Princess Diane.I always remember the 'timing' of Iraq. The impassioned support for America after 9/11 . Bush's declaration of 'weapons of mass destruction .. The strange 'death in the woods' of the only British expert on the subject who had declared that to be nonsense (subsequently proved right poor man) Bush posturing. and then Blair being sent post haste to Pakistan to talk with the Generals...Didn't anyone query ,like me, the fact that the first strike against Iraq came precisely when Blair was on the other side of the world? Did he even know it was going to happen?. Was he even informed until after the event.? After all. what could he say after so openly and passionately supporting the USA. America is the world's biggest terrorist, a fact laid down in Noam Chomsky's excellent book. 'who rules the world' They were not about to consult anyone about Iraq,not even the 'special one's' Blair had no choice in my view.and no I don't vote Labour
Apr 20th 2017, 5:45 am
#58
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
A lot of people claim to be against Blair over Iraq now.
My question is, where the hell were you all at the time?
As for being lied to, I guess no one sees the brexit lies as a history repeats again?
Again, where are you?
In 10 years you'll be calling for TM to be tried in court too?
Too late is too late. You have to respond to the facts today, not put head in the sand. Applied during Iraq and will continue to apply every bit as much now.
My question is, where the hell were you all at the time?
As for being lied to, I guess no one sees the brexit lies as a history repeats again?
Again, where are you?
In 10 years you'll be calling for TM to be tried in court too?
Too late is too late. You have to respond to the facts today, not put head in the sand. Applied during Iraq and will continue to apply every bit as much now.
Apr 20th 2017, 5:49 am
#59
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
I'll decline that particular invitation thanks - I'm not so daft as to get into a long-running battle with you over individual examples
Suffice to say that as far as I'm concerned, whilst there are a few who submit to the temptations within their grasp there are many who are essentially honest, decent and committed and who are no doubt equally (or most probably even more) as horrified as the rest of us by the actions of those of their colleagues who don't uphold the standards expected of them.
That's not to say that none of them ever finds themselves compromised, for example, with their conscience on matters on which they are required to vote or that they can always speak freely, openly and sincerely about their own opinions on certain key matters. They are, generally, after all's said and done, required to be loyal to a party line on some things. Nor does it preclude the possibility of them changing their minds on certain issues with the passage of time and subsequent events - indeed, it is to be hoped that in certain circumstances they would do exactly that Nor, indeed, does it preclude them from making minor errors of one sort or another.
However, those are rather different matters from engaging in embezzlement, fraud and corruption or from lying about one's actions in order to attempt to salvage one's reputation or career. Or from deliberately lying in order to persuade the public one way or another on something.
To my mind there's far too much deliberate confusion of the one thing with the other, which is a big shame because it colours public opinion about the profession and no doubt discourages some perfectly suited individuals from considering it as a career. I feel just as much annoyance about seeing by and large truthful and honest politicians being trashed by distortion of the truth about their words and actions as I do when others engage in real skulduggery.
Suffice to say that as far as I'm concerned, whilst there are a few who submit to the temptations within their grasp there are many who are essentially honest, decent and committed and who are no doubt equally (or most probably even more) as horrified as the rest of us by the actions of those of their colleagues who don't uphold the standards expected of them.
That's not to say that none of them ever finds themselves compromised, for example, with their conscience on matters on which they are required to vote or that they can always speak freely, openly and sincerely about their own opinions on certain key matters. They are, generally, after all's said and done, required to be loyal to a party line on some things. Nor does it preclude the possibility of them changing their minds on certain issues with the passage of time and subsequent events - indeed, it is to be hoped that in certain circumstances they would do exactly that
Nor, indeed, does it preclude them from making minor errors of one sort or another.However, those are rather different matters from engaging in embezzlement, fraud and corruption or from lying about one's actions in order to attempt to salvage one's reputation or career. Or from deliberately lying in order to persuade the public one way or another on something.
To my mind there's far too much deliberate confusion of the one thing with the other, which is a big shame because it colours public opinion about the profession and no doubt discourages some perfectly suited individuals from considering it as a career. I feel just as much annoyance about seeing by and large truthful and honest politicians being trashed by distortion of the truth about their words and actions as I do when others engage in real skulduggery.
Apr 20th 2017, 5:53 am
#60
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Re: 8th June 2017 UK General Election
How could May 'muff' something that didn't exist? They all ran away leaving her holding the 'poisoned chalice' and no plan. I'm not a fan,but admire her courage in holding on.