SA Expat

Kiwijetpilot

Did I hit a nerve or can't you see the wood for the trees? You're the first kiwi that has taken exception to what I have to say. We have many kiwi friends here and we do often compare notes on all kinds of issues and still have mutual respect. I especially have a great friendship with our neighbours and we often taste each other's cooking. As I've mentioned we do not like the meat here very much but feel that ten to one they wouldn't like ours. It's simply what we grew up with and are used to. Some things you can adapt to and some you can't.
It is not my intention to run New Zealand down and I'm sorry if thats your perception. I simply would have preferred to have had a better awareness of the education system so that we could have taken the cost of a private school into consideration. I do realise that many immigrants are perfectly happy with the state system but thats a personal choice, is it not? Surely it is a mark of self respect to go to school neatly dressed and doesn't this reflect on both the parents who send their kids to school in this manner as well as the school principal who accepts them?
I'd say we left South Africa for obvious reasons and yes, the standard of education there has already declined and I believe it will continue to do so. However there are still a number of good schools around. One of the factors taken into account when ranking a university internationally is safety. Needless to say New Zealand will beat SA hands down on that account. That is just one example - not all factors are on academic merit. It was on the Immigration Dept's website in 2002 regarding SA's being the highest earners.
They had all kinds of interesting facts but I don't see any of it there now.
Personally I don't know anyone here that does not have some sort of damp/condensation problem regardless of income group. Of course one can improve things a great deal regarding heating but once we've paid the astromical school fees we don't have the available resources left. Yes, we did have an inspection done prior to buying the house.
Regards
SA Expat

kiwijetpilot

Hmmm well let me just say the following.

It is one thing to hold an opinion. All opinions should be heard and respected, and it is then up to the individual to decide what they want to do.

However, when opinions stray into factual inaccuracy, that is another matter. It is the factual inaccuracies that concern me.

The original poster, and to an extend SA Expat, have found that NZ doesn't quite meet their idealised view of what paradise should be. Instead of just saying "it doesn't suit me, I'm off to the next country that I can get into", they allow their bitterness and anger to take over, and launch into long and somewhat vicous diatribes against their current countires of abode. As we have seen with both the above posters, they usually cross the line between perception and reality. To them, the glass will always be half empty, and I doubt they will be happy in any country that will accept them.

There is probably no need for more Kiwis here, that was tongue-in-cheek. Why? Because Kiwis don't care. If you don't like NZ, fine, leave. If you want to leave, great, more room for us. We don't need immigrants here, although we will always welcome those who come here to start a new life, and who manage to shed their preconceptions and their negative attitudes rowards anything that isn't the same as "home". NZ was built by such people.

NZ never has, and never will, be the equal of every other country in every way. We do things differently here - you need to do your research before you come. Reading what is posted here is a good way of doing that, until what is written here strays into misinformation - stuff that the writer, in a less than charitable frame of mind, wants to believe is true - but is nevertheless incorrect. The assertions of SA Expat on the subject of education are a case in point. S/he clearly wants to drive his or her children in a way that is quite foreign to most NZers.

Another good example of misinformation is this pair of quotes from SA Expat:

So first you tell us that the quality is poor (a damning indictment on all NZ meat and an objective statement), and then you tell us that it is just what you are used to (a subjective statement). A foreigner reading the first will be left with the impression that NZ meat is poor quality compared to the rest of the world (patently not true if you look at our meat export markets), a foreigner reading the second will be left with the impression that you personally do not like the meat - two completely different meanings.

Partly right, most go because they want to see the world. However, they almost always come back (money in pocket or not) because they value what we have here.

I'm here because I value the lifestyle and character of the place over career aspects or the ability to make vast sums of money.

And what most foreigners don't get is that, as a rule, we don't allow ourselves to be driven by career, and the acquisition of money and things, in the same way that a lot of foreigners are.

Having said that, a drive around many towns in NZ will reveal a high level of prosperity. That is largely a result of innovation, an entreprenuerial spirit, and large doses of self-belief and self-motivation. That too is what being a Kiwi is all about.

So - to summarise. Recount your experiences to your hearts content. Be as negative as you like. If you want to be bitter and twisted, and vent that to other would-be immigrants on boards such as this, fine - it is your blood pressure, not mine.

But when you stray into factual inaccuracy, or even extreme opinions, expect to be challenged.

ElizabethC

[QUOTE=[SIZE=1]You're the first kiwi that has taken exception to what I have to say.][/SIZE]


I'm the second.

I find your comments to be incorrect and not helpful to anyone.

No mould in my house by the way.

kiwijetpilot

You see, this is the sort of nonsense I am on about. Rather than actually check the facts, we see here a statement that simply tries to justify previous, erroneous statements.

If you had bothered to check the source of the information, you would know better. So just to help you out, I have reproduced this snippet from the folks who published the survey, from here:

http://www.thes.co.uk/downloads/rank...gs-16pages.pdf

These are the actual criteria:

"The first element in the score for each
institution is based on peer review, the most
trusted method for university comparison.

A further 20 per cent of the score is
accounted for by a ranking of research
impact, which is calculated by measuring
citations per faculty member.

Rated at a further 20 per cent
of the total is a measure of faculty-to-student
ratio.

The other two measures weighted here,
each at 5 per cent of the total, are designed
to encapsulate a university’s international
orientation. More than 2 million
undergraduates now study outside their own
country worldwide, and this number is
growing at about 20 per cent a year. A
university’s ability to attract them is one
measure of its ambition and is captured by a
measure of its percentage of overseas
students. Equally important is its ability to
bring in the best academics from around the
world, measured here via its percentage of
international faculty.

Other measures were considered and discarded for a variety of reasons."

Please explain where "safety" appears in that summary...

SA Expat

kiwijetpilot
You're correct. My apologies. It must have been a different survey where I read that as one of the factors taken into account. South Africa still did better than NZ, though it actually surprises me as I know that a huge number of the researchers have left and a number of departments/projects have been discontinued due to a lack of funds.
Please realise that I'm neither bitter, angry or unhappy in New Zealand, just looking to what would best suit our family for the future. Not sure why you think I feel that way or why you should take it all so personally. No country is perfect and I'm not looking for another South Africa. Merely weighing up the pros and cons for the long run.
Regards
SA Expat

Damages

Hi Roger ( and all who may want to build a better house)

If you are interested in building new houses which are very warm in winter, cool in summer, virtually indestructable as well as evironmentally sound and inexpensive to build why not consider an 'earthship'. These houses are built using old automobile tyres packed with earth and rendered (ie. the raw materials are free) and they look absolutely brilliant. Check out the website
www.earthship.com and follow a few links from there. You will be astounded!!

Regards

Ali

Kayser Soze

So there we are then.....

Come to NZ for a more peaceful way of life not based around work and material wealth and, by the way, you might make a bit of money if you want to.

Come to UK if you want to make real money and have a generally more stimulating time (in both good and bad ways!) and maybe, from time to time, you might get some peace.

No wonder I have been ping-ponging between the two for nearly 20 years :scared:

K.S.

southerner

I for one am far more stimulated in NZ than I was in UK. Guess it depends on the person.

Agree that one could easily ping pong quite a bit, both countries have a lot to offer, and wherever you are you need to make the best of it while you are there. I think too many people focus on the negative things in their lives.

Damages

Hi SA Expat,

Some of your points have been taken on board and my vitriolic comments do seem rather overboard in places. for which I apologise. I must say however that you do seem to be quite masterful at the inflammatory statements which appear to boil the blood at 12000miles. Wow!! I am afraid I do get rather upset when I hear people whinging ( and please don't deny that you whinge because I can spot a whinger at 21,120,000 paces, having been one myself when I lived in Australia from age 11 to 30). When you make your home in more than one country you always wish you were in the other. This means that when we move to NZ I will wish I was back in UK or Oz. If I was in Oz I would wish I was in UK or NZ and if I was on the moon I would be too short of breath to be unable to wish for anything but air. I would guess that your patriotism for SA comes from the pride you have in your home in much the same way as I would leap to defend Australia (and therefore NZ by default) while I am here in the UK. Perhaps when I go to NZ I shall be lauding the UK and casting NZ asunder. As Kiwijetpilot says our cups may only ever be half full. I am hoping that I can fill it up to the brim this time having been sapped by life in the UK.

It seems as if it might be good if we all climb down a little as this entire thread seems to be turning into a virtual wrestling ring. We need to get back to the information and advice forum that this should be rather than a soapbox for Tourette's sufferers.

PS I get a bit tired of outdoor pursuit rhetoric also (can't stick rugby!!)

NZ can't be a back door for OZ there appears to be a moat and a bureaucratic drawbridge





Regards Ali

Campbells

Yebo yes,
I go for that Ali. in fact I suggest that everyone (including me) post two positives for every negative post.

Hmm, nice coffee (06.50) , sip !

Have a great day whereever you are

Campbell.

Kayser Soze

'Sapped by life' - wow. Is this the same UK I know? Come on, it's exiting not sapping. You're on the edge of one of the most exciting cities in the WORLD. Still I guess it depends on how well you can handle 'stress'?

You may as well say NZ is dull because nothing happens expect cats stuck up trees and various farming issues

Here's my 2 positive things for NZ. I can always find a parking space in the capital city and all restaurants are smoke free.
1 negative - there is no real national newspaper just alot of regional ones.


K.S.

Kayser Soze

More stimulating in Dunedin than when you were in UK

I'm guessing you either spend alot of time in Cadburyworld then or you were in the middle of Wales when you were in UK?

K.S.

Gill and Rob

1st positive..no one gives a dam what sort of car you drive and 2nd, when you are driving, you do not spend half of the time in a traffic jam.
Gill

lily34

I think also it depends what your life philosophy is - personally, mine has always tended toward the 'its better to regret something you have done rather than something you haven't' approach to life.

Damages

Woke up this morning and forced my cat to climb the tree in our back yard. I alerted the media and fully expect to see it on CNN. As for farming issues - my herb planter has suffered a little from the recent cold snap. This is news I long for. Yes! sapped. It is is very tiring looking at rubbish blowing up the streets, the pavements spotted with gum and glistening with spit. London taxis are about to be replaced by standard euro vehicles and the routmaster buses are being taken away in favour of bendy buses which have immese difficulties get around the narrow streets. Ken has been rushing around insulting people. We are all terror suspects who should be put under 'house arrest' while we are awaiting a bombing campaign where we could get hurt. Our son's school has had 2 bombs go off outside it. After the first one he was reassured that at least it won't be hit again........ then after two weeks it was hit again!!!! :scared: Yes its all very vibrant and exciting. I guess I'm a little overstimulated.

2 Positive things for NZ

1. A population of only 4 million and an ability to sustain itself when the oil runs out
2 Plenty of space and cleaner air. More environmentally friendly energy production

Negative for NZ

-We aren't there yet!!

Kind regards

Ali