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Devils advocate....??

Devils advocate....??

Old Apr 27th 2009, 5:51 am
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Default Devils advocate....??

Hi again,

So after reading posts on here and other websites and forums, I was concerned that once we come over, we wouldn't be able to "live" because the cost of everything is far higher than over here.... it sort of put us off a bit.... but I am very determined and I decided to take matters into hand by doing a comparison of over here to over there.... the results were quite shocking and contrary to what I have been told so far.

Without boring you with all the figures, I based our income on the lower to average salary the hubby and I could expect over there and did not take into consideration that we will probably be eligible for working for families tax credits. I compared that figure to what the hubby earns over here (I am a housewife and mother) and scarily the figures were very identical.... so it would mean the both of us will have to work, that I will not dispute.

Anyway, I printed off a list from our bank account, of all of the outgoings, eg, council tax, rent, water rates, broadband, mobile phones, house insurance, car insurance etc etc, and did a direct comparison by googling the average rent over there, no rates to pay until we buy, broadband, insurances, mobiles, and so far, we are better off....

I think what I failed to remember was that we will not have the big loan payment, because it is fully paid by this time next year, we will not have the car loan (to begin with), and we will not have other outgoings like tv license, credit card, catalogues etc.

We are in the fortunate/unfortunate position (depending on how you look at it) of not having a house to sell, as we currently rent, and as mentioned previously, all debts will be paid by then and we should have been able to save a fair few thou, so all told, I think that the move won't be as financially impossible as we thought it would be.

The other thing that I feel people don't take into consideration is the way you live in the UK.... obviously if you are extravagent, you may find that the same quality goods are expensive, but surely if you are frugal and can sniff a bargain at fifty paces, you will be ok? We are fairly frugal, but we do like to spoil ourselves.... what I mean is I like a bargain, but I tend to buy lots of bargains so it sort of defeats the object so I am fairly sure that belt tightening for us should be not so much not having what we have now, but more so not having as much as we have now (volume/quantity wise).

The other thing..... furniture.... do you take it or leave it?? Well, as far as I am concerned, ebay and the local car booter will become my friend as the time draws closer.... for us its just not viable to spend £4k getting our furniture there, its just not worth that much and tbh it will kill me to wait so long for it, so the £4k I save added to the money I sell our stuff for will buy our (cheap) furniture once we get there. I have absolutely no problem buying from cheaper shops like "the warehouse" or "k-mart", I'm not a furniture snob, and I couldn't care less where my stuff comes from, as long as it serves its purpose and looks nice. For us, we will simply send some items that we absolutely cannot leave, like photo's, ps3 wii, the hubbys army plaques etc, by excess baggage, which may end up costing a few hundred £.

Perhaps I'm just a skinflint, perhaps we are used to our working class living, perhaps his years in the army makes it easy for us to upsticks without too much fuss, I don't know but one thing I do know is that everyone should do their own research, because what may seem like a nightmare dispensible income for one person, is a lottery win for someone else
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 7:33 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

I think what I failed to remember was that we will not have the big loan payment, because it is fully paid by this time next year, we will not have the car loan (to begin with), and we will not have other outgoings like tv license, credit card, catalogues etc.
Now steady on, I will play your devil's advocate because sometimes we can get carried away being all optimistic and what looks good on paper, looks very different in the cold light of day.

I'm a firm believer in that old saying ' If it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.'

If you have loans, credit cards and catalogue debts at present, how will that suddenly change when you get to NZ? Presumably you will need to replace the car(s). I don't think it can be contrary to what you have been told or have read about the cost of living on this forum, because I truly don't believe anyone has told any porky pies. Very few find the move to NZ to be financially beneficial, unless of course they make some fundamental lifestyle changes (such as changing from one income to two) or are extremely lucky to be able to land a higher paying job.

Just double check and make sure you haven't won the lottery and lost the ticket. No doubt if you are planning a shift from one income to two there will some gains, and clearing all your debt will be a massive help.

Did you consider take home pay, rather than gross pay, because there is no doubt we take home rather a lot less of our earnings, due to higher taxes here. Did you factor in child care costs?

Perhaps post your headline figures and let the people of the forum have a say in how realistic they are? e.g the rents for the areas you are considering.

Also, your radical plans to ditch all your belongings in favour of replacing them here, sounds great, but it does kind of go against all 'better' judgement and advice of those who have gone before you. Just sayin', that's all!!

Last edited by Bo-Jangles; Apr 27th 2009 at 7:42 am.
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 8:05 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles View Post
Now steady on, I will play your devil's advocate because sometimes we can get carried away being all optimistic and what looks good on paper, looks very different in the cold light of day.
I am always an optomist.... I leave the pessimism to the hubby

Ok, so earnings... I have been told that for my line of work I should expect to get anywhere between $35k and $55 depending on the area, and the hubby should expect $25k - $40k.... I am an office manager/PA, he is a heavy goods driver.

Based on the income of $38k for me and $25k for him, neither of which, according to the job searches I have been doing, seem unrealistic, in fact possibly on the lower side. According to the tax system this would mean take home of $588 for me and $395 a week for him, making a total of $983.

Rental of a 3 bed house approx $200 - $300 week, no rates, plus electricity averaged at $75 a week is approx $325 a week, which leaves $658. Our monthlys will come to $236, so divided by 4 makes around $60, taking our dispensible income to around $600, with a possible additional $200 a week to take off if we take out a car loan.... I think thats plenty to live off.... I have done a shop online and it came to $250, which included lots of stuff I would only get occassionally, so I would imagine our weekly shop will be around this mark... plus we are keen gardeners, so after a while I would imagine this would be reduced somewhat, given that we have lots of success with our vege's over here.

What I haven't even added to the income is any tax credits we may be eligible for, which according to their website could be around $230 a week (we have 4 children), plus all of my kids are older, so childcare costs don't really come into it, my youngest being 9... I would possibly need an after school carer for half hour until my eldest two get home from school, they are 14 and 15 and most definitely responsible enough to look after their sisters for an hour or so.

Ditching our belongings.... well, yes, for us this is definitely the way to go. The hubby is very handy when it comes to building things, and I have no problem with him building beds etc. Our sofa's are too old to consider bringing, our fridge too big, our cooker gas, our washing machine old and we are aware that by selling them, although we won't make a mint, we should make a thousand or two.... the most of our money being raised from the garden equipment, greenhouses, sheds etc etc.

We are looking to move to Whangarei, within a 30 minute drive to the city. And will be looking to buy within a year or two of being there, that way we get to know the areas beforehand.

Sorry if you feel I am being too optomistic, but I feel it is called for on the odd occassion
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 8:06 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by kazmac72 View Post

The other thing..... furniture.... do you take it or leave it?? Well, as far as I am concerned, ebay and the local car booter will become my friend as the time draws closer.... for us its just not viable to spend £4k getting our furniture there, its just not worth that much and tbh it will kill me to wait so long for it, so the £4k I save added to the money I sell our stuff for will buy our (cheap) furniture once we get there. I have absolutely no problem buying from cheaper shops like "the warehouse" or "k-mart", I'm not a furniture snob, and I couldn't care less where my stuff comes from, as long as it serves its purpose and looks nice. For us, we will simply send some items that we absolutely cannot leave, like photo's, ps3 wii, the hubbys army plaques etc, by excess baggage, which may end up costing a few hundred £.

Just back to this if I may and I know you will think I am just being negative (that's cool) but really do have another look and think about this. It will cost you something more than a couple of hundred to ship excess baggage and whilst I may be out of touch I don't think a 20 foot container costs 4 thousand pounds, unless it has gone up almost double in four years.

Take a good look around you, at absolutely everything you own - all your clothes, books, photographs, kids toys, clothes pegs, cutlery, cups, plates, pots , pans, salt and pepper pots. I don't know whatever you have; some of them will have no intrinsic value, but will be priceless to you and your family, down to the minutest things and ask yourself could you replace it all for three or four thousand pounds. I bet you could not!
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 8:15 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles View Post
Just back to this if I may and I know you will think I am just being negative (that's cool) but really do have another look and think about this. It will cost you something more than a couple of hundred to ship excess baggage and whilst I may be out of touch I don't think a 20 foot container costs 4 thousand pounds, unless it has gone up almost double in four years.

Take a good look around you, at absolutely everything you own - all your clothes, books, photographs, kids toys, clothes pegs, cutlery, cups, plates, pots , pans, salt and pepper pots. I don't know whatever you have; some of them will have no intrinsic value, but will be priceless to you and your family, down to the minutest things and ask yourself could you replace it all for three or four thousand pounds. I bet you could not!
I bet I could!!!

The hubby was in the army, the only things that came with us from place to place were those treasured items, the rest is just stuff.... you learn to live with the bear minimum, and every time before we moved, we have always had a booter to get rid of the rubbish... when we move (within the UK) removals companies are always shocked at the amount that we have... we box it all ourselves and it all gets stored in one room for ease of removal... our "stuff" could fit into the back of a small box van and the cost is just not worth it.... my SIL has just moved to Aus with her new hubby and it cost just shy of £2500, and that was for half a container!!

My mum moved back to the UK from Bulgaria last year and asked me to help kit her flat out.... including decoration, fitted carpets and all and I mean all furniture it came to £1750.......

We don't place so much value on possessions, because its just stuff, stuff that can be replaced, whether immediately or over time.... the memories and treasured items will be the only things that come with.
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 8:23 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

so you don't mind not spending any money or buying as little as possible

What about your children??

surely they have things they like/want which can't be replaced on a shoe string.
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 8:30 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by eddie_nz View Post
so you don't mind not spending any money or buying as little as possible

What about your children??

surely they have things they like/want which can't be replaced on a shoe string.
I agree with what others are saying. I chose to give away my white goods before I left the UK. It cost $8000 to kit out the NZ kitchen with a cooker, washer, dryer, fridge and dish washer in 2005. It is not cheap to set up shop with nought. I hear it time and time again about how everyone who does the move CANNOT believe the amount of wonga that slips thru' your hands in set up costs. Not trying to be negative just honest and a number of times some folk have had the cheek to post..."why didn't someone warn me......." Pay heed to those who have been through the mill. Money issues is probably the biggest problem by far for too many in the emigration equation.
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 8:52 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles View Post
Just back to this if I may and I know you will think I am just being negative (that's cool) but really do have another look and think about this. It will cost you something more than a couple of hundred to ship excess baggage and whilst I may be out of touch I don't think a 20 foot container costs 4 thousand pounds, unless it has gone up almost double in four years.

Take a good look around you, at absolutely everything you own - all your clothes, books, photographs, kids toys, clothes pegs, cutlery, cups, plates, pots , pans, salt and pepper pots. I don't know whatever you have; some of them will have no intrinsic value, but will be priceless to you and your family, down to the minutest things and ask yourself could you replace it all for three or four thousand pounds. I bet you could not!
Yes it has 20ft sole use container £4202

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Old Apr 27th 2009, 9:08 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

yup, 4 grand from pickfords just booked one
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 9:18 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I agree with what others are saying. I chose to give away my white goods before I left the UK. It cost $8000 to kit out the NZ kitchen with a cooker, washer, dryer, fridge and dish washer in 2005. It is not cheap to set up shop with nought. I hear it time and time again about how everyone who does the move CANNOT believe the amount of wonga that slips thru' your hands in set up costs. Not trying to be negative just honest and a number of times some folk have had the cheek to post..."why didn't someone warn me......." Pay heed to those who have been through the mill. Money issues is probably the biggest problem by far for too many in the emigration equation.
We did similarly, had a huge clearout and left behind old and knackered stuff, we didn't bring kitchen appliances except our front loader (which was only supposed to get us by for a while is still doing okay and better than anything else out here) and we still brought heaps of stuff and managed to fill a 20ft container to the brim. There was only two of us, most of what we brought was personal effects, clothes, tools, books, CDs and basic kitchenware, plus a few bits of furniture and a TV that did not work.

Those first few weeks we arrived it was shop, shop, shop till we dropped and it was indeed never ending paying out; incredibly wearing, as well as frustrating, faced with buying the simplest things such as a kettle ($100), iron ($100), fridge $2,000 + seemed like a wade through treacle. Establishing where's best to get this or that, shopping around for best prices, getting lost, comparing prices and realising very quickly we might as well have brought the perfectly good ones we just gave away.

I remember all too well shopping for a fridge and after visiting 20 something shops, checking all the prices and the stark realisation that they all had exactly the same anyway we finally decided on one in particular, went back to the shop to order it and they said they we couldn't have it for six weeks. I completely lost it, had a hissy fit and declared ''That's it we're not getting a stupid fridge anyway!' If we had to start all over with everything from scratch I think I would have been a mental wreck.
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 9:22 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by weejie View Post
Yes it has 20ft sole use container £4202

Phyl x

Looks like yours is almost the longest possible journey. It does depend quite a bit on from and to where.
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 9:53 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Look on www.trademe.co.nz for some very good bargains (furniture, cars, etc), and also mr rentals and dtr if you need to rent beds, whiteware, tvs, etc when you first get here.

It can be done on a shoestring budget and I think it is great that you are an optimist. You should qualify for the working for families tax credits if you are a permanent resident which could be $200 or so a week depending on your situation.

Good luck!
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 10:18 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Thanks for all the replies you guys.... I do appreciate what everyone is saying, really I do, but what I am saying is, my stuff just isn't that important, its just stuff... things.... its certainly not worth £4000, which would roughly save me $10000, plus whatever I sell it for, say an additional $4000 - $5000, giving me (or saving me) $14-$15k to set up.... plus don't forget we are currently saving and aim to have at least a further £10k before then.

As far as my girls go... well, I have brought them up to believe that people are more important than things, things can always be replaced, people can't. Yes, they will have some things they will want to bring with them, but they are aware that most things will not, and in fact they are looking forward to choosing new things.

The way I see it, if we have to slum it for a few weeks until we find our feet, thats fine... surely we would have to wait months for our stuff to arrive anyway, so unless we find a fully furnished place, we will have to buy new stuff anyway, so surely its twice the expense??

The precious things in my life will be coming with me, they are my girls and my husband... the treasured possessions will follow in a few boxes... the rest means nothing.... its just stuff. In our married life we have been from one end of the spectrum to the other, from absolutely brassic, don't know where your next meal is coming from, to extremely comfortable, and the journey has taught us that absolutely nothing is as important as each other, as well as being able to find a meal from nothing and becoming very inventive in many situations. And I truly believe that a positive attitude goes a very long way, in this case, all the way to NZ .
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 10:22 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by kazmac72 View Post
I truly believe that a positive attitude goes a very long way, in this case, all the way to NZ .
A positive attitude doesn't put a roof over you head or food on the table.

Never underestimate how cold hard cash improves your life...
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Old Apr 27th 2009, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Devils advocate....??

Originally Posted by eddie_nz View Post
A positive attitude doesn't put a roof over you head or food on the table.

Never underestimate how cold hard cash improves your life...
Are you suggesting that New Zealand if only for the elite??

The way I see it is... if 4 million people can manage to make it work, why can't we?? We are not moving to make our fortunes, far from it... I am simply suggesting that you don't need millions to relocate and you can do it on a budget... for us the most expensive part will be the paperwork and the flights over... the furniture will be covered by what it would have cost us to send it over, and the savings will help toward start up costs such as rental costs and maybe a cheap car.
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