Coronavirus

Old Mar 21st 2020, 5:44 am
  #166  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I'll take expert advice on the matter. If the experts think the situation is controlled enough not to impose a quarantine I'll carry on as per normal.

I only ask that we avoid the scenarios facing Euroland.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 12:03 pm
  #167  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Sod Level 2. Let's go straight to Level 3 and get on with the necessary.
all countries should immediately go on total lockdown for at least the next month IMO. Our politicians are letting us down big time.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 12:27 am
  #168  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I'm really angry with the New Zealand government. We have 66 cases now and apparently they have moved the goal posts saying schools won't close until level 4 changing from their initial goal of community transmissions which is now occurring, in other words the same conditions that affect the UK, Spain and the US need to met before we shut things down. What we know about all those nations is that their complacency is their biggest downfall, they had a wait and see approach and now will suffer for it. The UK is bracing itself as it's cases will follow France and Spain.

What logic is there by the government to make the EXACT same mistakes as Europe, why go down that road? I initially thought Jacinda acted rationally in response to shutting this down, now she is contradicting everything she has promised
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 1:49 am
  #169  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
I'm really angry with the New Zealand government. We have 66 cases now and apparently they have moved the goal posts saying schools won't close until level 4 changing from their initial goal of community transmissions which is now occurring, in other words the same conditions that affect the UK, Spain and the US need to met before we shut things down. What we know about all those nations is that their complacency is their biggest downfall, they had a wait and see approach and now will suffer for it. The UK is bracing itself as it's cases will follow France and Spain.

What logic is there by the government to make the EXACT same mistakes as Europe, why go down that road? I initially thought Jacinda acted rationally in response to shutting this down, now she is contradicting everything she has promised
60 cases doesn't warrant locking a country down with no movement what so ever.
It's going to come no matter what you can't lock a country down till the vaccine is made.
The government is trying todo it in small portions so the hospitals don't get over whelmed.
Once the cases gets out of hand then it will get locked down till it's under control.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 2:08 am
  #170  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by jarv5116 View Post
60 cases doesn't warrant locking a country down with no movement what so ever.
It's going to come no matter what you can't lock a country down till the vaccine is made.
The government is trying todo it in small portions so the hospitals don't get over whelmed.
Once the cases gets out of hand then it will get locked down till it's under control.
When the north of Ireland had 65 cases we shut schools down, cases are now at 102 there but there is great measures taken to TRY and reduce that. The New Zealand government already stated that if there are community transmissions then the schools would shut down, this would be to try and stop the curve accelerating too quickly as if it does and if the hospital system is overwhelmed then the mortality rate increases as people are left to die while others are prioritized. Lets not make the same mistake Italy, Spain, France, UK and the USA made. Those countries FAILED their people by not heeding the warning internationally. When you say there is only 66 cases what do you mean? That we should take the same response as Europe and wait until we have hundreds before we act when by then it's too late as it multiplies so fast. The idea was to keep the curve down, we had about a dozen cases a week ago, it's increasing fast, act soon and sharp for a short period of time or we will end up in lockdown for much longer with a greater death toll and economical burden.

Also as for merely being 66 cases, it's more likely higher due to the fact that they are only testing people with symptoms who have have links with overseas travel, in other words if you have no link to overseas travel no matter how obvious your symptoms are then you won't be tested

Last edited by paddy234; Mar 22nd 2020 at 2:19 am.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 3:40 am
  #171  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
initial goal of community transmissions which is now occurring,
There is no confirmed community transmission at this stage.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 4:26 am
  #172  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
When the north of Ireland had 65 cases we shut schools down, cases are now at 102 there but there is great measures taken to TRY and reduce that. The New Zealand government already stated that if there are community transmissions then the schools would shut down, this would be to try and stop the curve accelerating too quickly as if it does and if the hospital system is overwhelmed then the mortality rate increases as people are left to die while others are prioritized. Lets not make the same mistake Italy, Spain, France, UK and the USA made. Those countries FAILED their people by not heeding the warning internationally. When you say there is only 66 cases what do you mean? That we should take the same response as Europe and wait until we have hundreds before we act when by then it's too late as it multiplies so fast. The idea was to keep the curve down, we had about a dozen cases a week ago, it's increasing fast, act soon and sharp for a short period of time or we will end up in lockdown for much longer with a greater death toll and economical burden.

Also as for merely being 66 cases, it's more likely higher due to the fact that they are only testing people with symptoms who have have links with overseas travel, in other words if you have no link to overseas travel no matter how obvious your symptoms are then you won't be tested
I think they should have closed the border and stopped cruise ships sooner thou.
I'm not sure to be honest it's un chartered territory. I don't even know how much NZ could realistically cope with before it has a serious problem.
NZ government should have took over Hotels ect weeks ago and everyone coming into the country or comes in contact with positive people should have been sent to designated buildings for 14 days.
Even if you self isolate in the country it just doesn't work. you still have to go throu customs get home and sort stuff out after landing. These people should have been isolated somewhere designated.
They ain't going get any ventilators from other countries. I don't lnow how much beds they have in hospitals either. But In been watching Sky news everyday and I agree Europe is in a pure and utter mess.
Only place that's seemed to stop the spread so far is China.
But China put extreme measures in place to reduce the spread. They built a 2600 bed hospital in 10 days pretty incredible really.

Last edited by jarv5116; Mar 22nd 2020 at 4:39 am.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 4:39 am
  #173  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

However that is only a matter of time now before transmission into the NZ communities and likely it is already incubating out there at a place not far from any of us. The virus is spreading and quickly. I am with Paddy234 on this one to a certain extent.
Unfortunately from what I am seeing , hearing and reading people are simply not taking proper notice of the warnings , advice and requests from govt . They just are not. They are not understanding what this means at all. They are not observing social distancing to any huge degree. They are not self isolating or if they are they are travelling throughout NZ before doing so as we are seeing from the cases now appearing.

When faced with irresponsibility like that then the govt needs to act & the current level does not suffice.
You lock down before it gets out of hand , not when it is out of hand.

IMVHO and obvs its just my personal logic, Govt & agencies should have acted sooner and ramped up the levels well in advance of the virus tidal wave . It had the warning and there was an opportunity to do just that. Controversial ? Yes. A whole load of moaning from the populace? Of course.
Better to moan at the outset and stay healthy than to moan in the midst of contagion and be dead. I suppose one could make the argument to not alarm the populace and bring fear , My logic says better to fear from behind the siege barricade than for that barricade to have fallen and you fear whilst you and the people around you fall . One could argue that placing restrictions early would have harmed businesses and the economy earlier . Hallo! We are going into global recession no matter what. Things will get financially tough . Businesses and employment will still suffer except that this way it has been delayed and placed people in jeopardy. All that has happened is to have shifted the economical damage along a timeline. The length of the damage will remain the same.

I'm irritated that NZ seems to have followed the exact same path as other countries . A slow easier sloping path rather than the hard stony path.

NZ needs to be at level 3 at least and be there right now. The language used needs to be changed. Forget the term 'social distancing'. People are interpreting that as 'social' for the most part. Forget asking people to be extreme and do the right thing . Make them. NZers are being asked to restrict un-necessary domestic travel. This is being misinterpreted bigtime and all the time and that puts the entire populace at peril .

I will be immensely relieved of course if this stops at these few cases spread around NZ and there is no transmission into assorted communities. What's the chances?
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 4:50 am
  #174  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Y'know . This is coming and NZ doesn't have the ability or facility to manage even a small intense outbreak of this dreadful pneumonia virus. If you balance the health facilities against locking down earlier then to me it was a no brainer.
Please remember White Island. Those intensive care patients had to be spread out to assorted hospitals . This will not be 25 odd people.
Maybe if the message had been blunt from the outset then people would have sat up and listened properly & not seen this as something happening somewhere else far away.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 4:53 am
  #175  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
However that is only a matter of time now before transmission into the NZ communities and likely it is already incubating out there at a place not far from any of us. The virus is spreading and quickly. I am with Paddy234 on this one to a certain extent.
Unfortunately from what I am seeing , hearing and reading people are simply not taking proper notice of the warnings , advice and requests from govt . They just are not. They are not understanding what this means at all. They are not observing social distancing to any huge degree. They are not self isolating or if they are they are travelling throughout NZ before doing so as we are seeing from the cases now appearing.

When faced with irresponsibility like that then the govt needs to act & the current level does not suffice.
You lock down before it gets out of hand , not when it is out of hand.

IMVHO and obvs its just my personal logic, Govt & agencies should have acted sooner and ramped up the levels well in advance of the virus tidal wave . It had the warning and there was an opportunity to do just that. Controversial ? Yes. A whole load of moaning from the populace? Of course.
Better to moan at the outset and stay healthy than to moan in the midst of contagion and be dead. I suppose one could make the argument to not alarm the populace and bring fear , My logic says better to fear from behind the siege barricade than for that barricade to have fallen and you fear whilst you and the people around you fall . One could argue that placing restrictions early would have harmed businesses and the economy earlier . Hallo! We are going into global recession no matter what. Things will get financially tough . Businesses and employment will still suffer except that this way it has been delayed and placed people in jeopardy. All that has happened is to have shifted the economical damage along a timeline. The length of the damage will remain the same.

I'm irritated that NZ seems to have followed the exact same path as other countries . A slow easier sloping path rather than the hard stony path.

NZ needs to be at level 3 at least and be there right now. The language used needs to be changed. Forget the term 'social distancing'. People are interpreting that as 'social' for the most part. Forget asking people to be extreme and do the right thing . Make them. NZers are being asked to restrict un-necessary domestic travel. This is being misinterpreted bigtime and all the time and that puts the entire populace at peril .

I will be immensely relieved of course if this stops at these few cases spread around NZ and there is no transmission into assorted communities. What's the chances?
I just read on the News there that OZ is locking down tomorrow.
I think the Goverment should have took over Hotels a few weeks ago and everyone landing got put in proper isolation before been released into the gen pop. If you land you been on the plane with 500 people. then your going throu customs then you have to get home. get food ect. You can't just get off a plane then sort yourself out. it's impossible without coming into contact with people. Self isolation just doesn't work.
I think they need to start preparing makes shift hospitals and proper isolation blocks.
I think China example on how to stop a disease out break and the way they reacted to it was pretty impressive. I know the problems to start with denying it and making it worse but they went hell for leather to put a stop to it.

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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 4:57 am
  #176  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Here in New Zealand you mostly get off the international flight and then you and everyone else off that flight boards assorted domestic flights full of people. It isn't like the UK or other countries where people arriving in get in vehicles and drive themselves. We have that added layer of contact.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 4:58 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Y'know . This is coming and NZ doesn't have the ability or facility to manage even a small intense outbreak of this dreadful pneumonia virus. If you balance the health facilities against locking down earlier then to me it was a no brainer.
Please remember White Island. Those intensive care patients had to be spread out to assorted hospitals . This will not be 25 odd people.
Maybe if the message had been blunt from the outset then people would have sat up and listened properly & not seen this as something happening somewhere else far away.
I think the difference is we are watching it very carefully in Europe as most of us will have loved ones and family and friends in the middle of it in Europe. Where as if you where from NZ you wouldn't be paying as much attention to it
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 5:07 am
  #178  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by MrsFychan View Post
There is no confirmed community transmission at this stage.
Two cases can't be linked to travel and another two cases today were traced back to a cattle convention over a week ago in Queenstown in which four people who attended now have the virus and perhaps more who have been in contact with others
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 5:41 am
  #179  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I did see there was an article where several health professionals had suggesting that we are in a level 4 situation.

What I'm hoping is that the government understand the limitations of their testing (both quality and quantity of data collected), they understand that the data they are looking at is an indication of the situation a week or two ago and their projections, with a large margin of safety built in and understanding that quarantine might be very mixed, are showing them we can safely proceed with business as usual understanding. We can tolerate underestimation but if we overshoot overshoot and end up in the position Euroland are in public trust will erode overnight.

Went for a drive around the city today. Lovely afternoon, lots of people out and about in bars and cafes, kids playing together in the park. So far people are treating this as business as usual.
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Old Mar 22nd 2020, 6:05 am
  #180  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Yes.
​​​​​​We'll I'm f####d if I can see what it is

Flu is flu it is nothing else
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