Uk university for non resident Brit
 

We have been living in Japan for 12 years and now realise our 18 year old daughter ( British passport holder) cannot enter a UK university as a "British person" , due to a 3 year residency law . If anyone has any advice for us it will be most welcome .(Just btw All my Oz andEuropean colleagues are shocked that this is the way we are treated ).I don't have 20,000 quid lying around to pay for the first year and a loan is only offered to residents I guess :confused:

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hi there and welcome to B.E. :)

The best place for you to look is probably the moving back to the UK forum here.

I suppose that if all the children of all the long term expats could get into Uni, the queue would be somewhat long but I can see where your frustrations might come from.

Any problems with navigating B.E., you can contact me here.

Enjoy B.E. :)

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hello and welcome to the forum. Good links from Sherlock as always. Hope you find the answers to your questions.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hi and welcome to BE :)

As Sherlock has said, if you head over to the MBTUK board, there are a few posts about University for ex-pats.

You are correct in that eligibility for 'home student' status is based on residency, rather than nationality.

Could your daughter go and live and work in the UK (or another country in the EU) for 3 years then do her university course? By then she would meet the residency requirement.

Other choices would be university in Japan (no idea what the funding situation is there), or pay the international fees for the UK - or another country all together.

In theory, it could perhaps be possible to get home status if you can prove that the family were only abroad temporarily for employment reasons. Having said that, I'm not too sure exactly how you would go about doing that.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hi Maninjapan,

Welcome to BE.

This subject comes up a lot in our Moving Back to the UK forum, so I am going to move this thread to that section for you.

Here are some recent threads that you may find useful:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=774345

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775610

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769849

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=768056

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=762927

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

This is probably the best solution, unless the OP is wealthy (unlike most of us).

Note that if she moves to Scotland rather than England she will fare much better financially at university when the time comes.
She can also do Open University at UK rates during those three years of life experience. Quite an adventure really. And if she is fluent in Japanese that would be a big asset in the job hunt.

Three years of service to the old country (if you want to think of it that way) does not seem excessive for what amounts to a scholarship.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Several important points have already been raised but I'd note the following:

If she studies in England and Wales, the fees are high even for residents, so it isn't that different for an "international" student (I'm not sure where you are coming up with your £20k for one year).

You are correct that international students are not eligible for student loans, which these days is the big difference rather than the actual cost (fees) of higher education.

As already suggested, if she lives in Scotland for 3 years her degree will be free (assuming the Scottish government hasn't changed their policy of free tuition/fees for Scottish and EU residents by then, which is actually quite likely, IMO).

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Or go to university in Japan? Daughter's been there for twelve years since the age of six.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

I suppose full independence may force the fees to be applied.......

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

What about going to university in Holland, Belgium or northern France. Many universities offer courses in English to attract students from the UK who can't afford the new university fees. The rules about residency might be different than for the UK and maybe your UK passport will get you resident fees without the 3 year requirement.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

I just want to pick up on the implied attitude behind these two posts. I take issue with the UK's treatment of its expats on this subject because I think there's a fairer solution that can be seen to be working in other countries, for example Australia. Sure, deny expats returning to the UK access to higher education loans for their fees for a given period, that seems fair and proper, imo, but to treat its citizens as no longer citizens by charging them international fees is not unfair and quite cynical. Especially given EU students are treated more favourably than the UK's returning citizens.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Tend to agree with this.

We've made a decision not to disrupt the last part of Senior in Australia before heading back to the UK ... but as a result, it would put any university plans in the UK on serious hold.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

That's effectively how it works now - if you look at the fees charged by universities, in many cases the international fees are much of a muchness with the home fees. What is different is the payment options - an international student does not have access to the same student loan structure as a home student.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

But that's very recent and may change. It's the status of the student that bothers me. Well, the amount for uni fees in the UK bothers me too, but that's a whole 'nother issue!

And also, fees may change in the future, who knows, but the policy of classing UK citizens as international students and therefore more peripheral to the UK than EU students is grossly unfair.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

As a person with a child at uni in the UK I do understand the frustrations and I feel everyones pain, but where does the government draw the line? Many UK citizens have never been to the UK (eg children born abroad to a British parent) so should they too be entitled to counted as a home student? If so, how does that differentiate them from any other non-european citizen who has never lived or worked anywhere in the UK?

For example, I have met a couple of people whose parents were brought to the US as children, and so when they were born they became British citizens by descent and are entitled to UK passports, however they have never been to the UK ever, and their parents have not been back to the UK for decades. So should those UK citizens be allowed to be counted as home students do you think?

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

I think that generally, if you are currently a citizen and resident of the UK, you should be "entitled" (to NHS, free education, benefits, etc., etc.). Anything beyond that is a bonus.

As you say, making "exceptions" starts us down a slippery slope. I must say, though, that in the case of higher education, I do feel a bit sorry for children who, after all, didn't have a choice in whether they left the UK in the first place. But they are the rules and it's hardly Draconian. There just isn't enough money to be overly generous and flexible. Or as that twerp Liam Byrne put it, "There's no money left".

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

And typically those children may have the option of going to college in the country where they reside (and may have been born, in fact). Although I'm disdainful of many immigration-related policies in the UK, this one feels about right (with some minor tweaks I've suggested before on BE).

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Yes, but with no access to loans- make them pay the fees upfront at the start of each semester (as Australia does). In fact, with the new fee changes there's even more reason to adopt this approach as student contributions are so much higher.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

This may not be such an easy alternative, considering universities in Japan that teach a whole course in English are few and far between. Unless the daughter is VERY good at speaking, reading and writing Japanese, which is a difficult language even for those foreigners who've lived in the country for a long time, there would be little choice. And it could be that those few universities that are able to take her on as an English-speaking student might require her to enroll as an international student for such a course.

ICU and Sophia uni are two that come to mind as possibilities.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

What about Irish Universities and it's pretty inexpensive to study in Holland if you are an EU citizen

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/study_in_the_netherlands.htm

Why limit yourself to the UK when you have access to all of the EU.....also Scotland is cheaper than England.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Not if you are from England - they are charged more :rofl:

Not sure how it works for UK passport holders that are not currently resident anywhere in the UK.... :confused:

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

I'm not complaining, but just as an illustration, we are paying £16,750 per year versus the "home" fee of £9,000 per year.

So over three years the difference will be about £25K. As already said, the real difference is the fact that fees have to be paid up front, with no access to loans.

The plus side from my daughter's perspective is that she will have no loan to pay back!!!

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

We did that for our son in the States and used to show him pictures of the luxury cars we could be buying! ; )

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

That is still quite a margin of difference, isn't it...

It does vary from university to university, so the difference would be less in some instances and it is less of a gap than when home fees were capped at £3000 per year.

Yes, that is good for your daughter to not have to pay what is effectively a 'graduate tax' when she starts earning over the threshold :thumbup:

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Indeed, it does differ a lot from uni to uni doesn't it. My son's fees are only £1,000 a year more than the "home" rates.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hi there! I went through the same thing for my post grad degree, and am currently paying the overseas fee rate for the programme.

The short line is: there's not really any financial aid available for international students. There may be some bursaries available through the school, but they're most likely going to be highly competitive. Most banks that I know of don't do special loans or anything for students, and my particular bank wouldn't even give me the student overdraft protection because of that 'overseas' classification.

Now the good news: it's tricky, but it can still be done! You may be able to get a japanese education loan. I don't know how it works, but I was coming from the states, and the government student loan people just happen to work with my uni.

They were able to give me a loan to pay for my studies that goes directly to the uni without me having to worry about it. The downside is of course, the conversion rate. My uni charges 14k in overseas rates, and the dollar is about 1.50 to the pound right now. You can imagine. Still, you have to look at relative value. For me, that's pretty much the same amount I'd have paid per year for a two year progamme in the states.

How important is it for your daughter to study here? If she's really really unhappy with the idea of staying in Japan, then it's probably worth it to send her back and see how much money you can get in student loans from Japan. If she's okay either way, and the conversion rate is really unkind to JPY, then it's probably better for her to stay with you.

Hope that helps!

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

I don't know if it's of any help to you, but give Santander a try, they gave my son a student account with the overdraft protection and free insurance for his laptop and cell phone. He told them he was British, but had lived abroad for a number of years and was returning to attend university but they didn't ask about his student status at all (eg whether or not he was classed overseas student etc). He did use his grandparents address though initially, and then switched to his student hall address once he got that, and now all his statements etc are sent electronically anyway so he doesn't get snail mail from them at all.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Just an FYI - Santander are #1 bank (worst) for customer complaints.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Maybe, but my son has had great service from them so far ... so he isn't complaining :)

I just wanted to offer is as an option to Tel8, as they were extremely helpful and accommodating as far as my son was concerned with regard to opening his student account. Compared to the two other banks he tried they were by far the best.

But as with everything, everyone's mileage may vary.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Everything is far from clear, but I had an exchange of emails with Britain's largest University and as far as I could discern - unlike other universities they seem to not have a three year residence rule to apply English rates to students who reside (since only recently) in England. There is a three year rule for Scots resident students and also a three year residence rule when it comes to the (new this year) loans for part time students.

Britain's largest University is, of course, The Open University, and their fees for undergraduate (Baccalaureate) students in England who take on a workload equivalent to full time (degrees in three or four years) is £5,000 per annum for students in England. For Scotland it is less than £1,700 per annum but the three year rule is applied.

Of course it is necessary to relocate to England before applying to the University (rather than the reverse) if one is to benefit from that route. OU may not be quite what you had in mind but it is a great "if all else fails" option.

And it opens the door to working and earning money at the same time as studying - though as others will attest, doing that resulting in having zero leisure time. This would be particularly valuable to anyone who intends work for a polyglot.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

That sounds great. :)

I am currently studying with the University Of London's International programme and their rates are pretty reasonable compared to similar online/distance programmes here in the US.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

It's good to know they seem to be doing a good job with one sector of their customers, at least. Every week there is at least one complaint highlighted in the "Money problems" column of the Sunday Times, and the woman is always making comments along the lines that Santander seem to be going out of their way to keep their "worst customer service" tag.

From recollection, it seems that the problems I read about in the column are largely with people who are trying to do out of the ordinary things (transferring accounts, opening ISAs, etc.). Maybe students have such basic needs that Santander can manage not to fluff things up too much. Sometimes you go with the bank that can give you what you need - needs must and all that. I guess the main thing I'd recommend to anyone planning to use Santander is to keep a good record of communications etc., in case things go belly up (hopefully not). :fingerscrossed:

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hi all,

I just got back (well about 3 hours ago) from our local shopping mall here in Chiang Mai, Thailand. There is always something going on there, and one of the things today was a Uculele show put on to celebrate 150 years of Thai-American contact - in particular Hawaii (Hawaiian Universities). It was co-arranged, it seems, by the American Consulate and American Education for Foreign Students (OK I made up that title, but it was something along those lines).

While I as there, I perused the stalls and listened to the show a bit. I picked up lots of information - including a DVD ( I also have their web address which I will post here if anyone is interested - and if I am allowed to?) on how to go about getting USA education as a foreigner. There are many options it seems, including (for non-native speakers) sitting TOEFL (etc) exams as pre-req's or taking excellerated 'English for Students' courses (at the colleges or in special foreign student language schools). For us native speakers (assuming kids also native speakers) especially with European qualifications ('A' levels/IB) then this is not needed of course.

One option (for the price conscious) are split courses where the first two years are taken at colleges and the last two (undergrad) are taken at the state uni (this includes prestigious uni's like Berkeley). This in effect cuts the over all cost dramatically. Given the low dollar right now (especially for those of us paid in Asia - Thailand around 30 baht/$).

There are also many scholorships available for foreign students in the States (the Brit scholorships all seems to be for home Brits, EU or American students!).

I am now seriously considering American Universities for my girls instead of British ones - they seem to be really trying to get Asian students and make it affordable and easy. There are courses aimed specifically at Asian students in some colleges too (I presume, without doing any further investigation as yet, this means course content that is Asian rather than American centred.biased). With some of the courses I looked at at good uni's (full national accreditation of course) coming in at under 10k GBP per year including tuition, books, accomodation and insurance - all with guaranteed on-campass housing for the full term of the course.

Seems to me British higher education is pricing itself out of the game and doing nought to attract foreign students (resting on the laurels of years gone by and age old reputation that only really holds for those few select uni's - OxBridge et al).

Anyway, seemd apt and timely given this thread, so thought I would share, and give a possible alternative.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Under £10k for a year at US uni books and dorm included? Even local students going to in state Unis don't pay that little, something is missing there. My friends Dd pays more than that and no accommodations included.
My own son's Uni cost $37,000 a year including Dorm but not including books.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Where are you getting your figures from? American schools will reach out to overseas folks for many reasons and a major one being the amount of tuition they will charge.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hi, as said it was in the paperwork from yesterday's event. Figures in particular came from a free magazine they gave with uni/college ads. I will quote a few of them a bit later - it may be that I have miss-read, but seemed pretty straight forward (maybe be it was semester - let me recheck) - bit busy right now it being 9am Monday morning here, but will post later today (and appologise if I miss quoted of course :sneaky:)

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

If those are the numbers quoted it makes me wonder if it's a bit bait and switch, they add all kinds of stuff on afterwards, or they are those small unaccredited colleges that cater only to foreign students, giving them very basic accommodations in very cheap (ie not safe) areas.
This is where my son went
This is where my friends Daughter goes You can look up the tuition costs for international students.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

It said they were all nationally accredited (I haven't checked as yet - but some were famous names; famous colleges not at those prices of course though). I will dig out the paperwork at lunch time and post the details - like I said, could be per semester or other careful wording, I just skimmed through them last night - but the prices did strike me for some of these colleges.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

OK as promised - just skimming the magazine (Study in the USA). Most do not list prices (or only partial - i.e. course fees) - here are a few. They are all listed as accredited, but I have done no research on any of them, so they may not be great - I list here for reference only. I am also working from a Baht to $ price (and then to Pound using Thai rates) as that is how I am affected by exchange rates etc - so may be more expensive if just going direct from pound to dollar (? - Baht is strong against both, but more so against dollar, which is weak).

Foothill+De Anza (Ca) - note this does lots of half degrees (i.e. first 2 years) and then students move over to unis like Berkeley (119 int students in 2011), UCLA (167 int. students 2011), USC, Indiana, Cornell etc. - Only lists tuition fees of $6500 per year (195k b/just under 4kGBP). This would drastically reduce the cost of a degree with such prestigious universities - but of course year 3 and 4 may be much more expensive.

Valencia College (same 1st 2 years - and includes F and J visas) - Orlando Fl. No price, but states 40% less than state prices.

Monterey Peninsula College (MPC) (Ca.) listed prices as follows: total yearly cost of $16k (broken down to : tuition $5,200, Living expenses $8,700, books $800, Health Ins $1,300) (480k baht / 9,800 GBP). Also has 2 year tranfer degrees to all major state unis (see above)

There are probably more if I had time to read every advert (like I said, most have no listed price that I could see - but imply or state low fees). There was an interesting breakdown though (artical not advert) which gives prices as follows (obviously, there is great variation as it includes community college degrees up to ivy league privates!) - These are averages or ranges:
Entrance exams: $500
Application fees: $250-600
Tuition: $5,000 - 30,000
Room+Board: $3,000 - 7,500
Travel (flights etc): $500-4,000
Book: $900
Health Insurance: $350-500
Personal Expenses: $2,500

Anyway, hope this helps and gives at least an alternative line of inquirey. Not done any research myself yet, so please check into any of what I stated above (direct from ed mag) before taking it a gospel.

Re: Uk university for non resident Brit
 

Hmm, that's quite a range in tuition costs...per year, I assume (?). Also a range in the room+board costs.

Interesting that the colleges mentioned are in states with milder climates (California, Florida, and Hawaii in previous post). Perhaps these states can get away with lower housing costs for students? :confused:

I've noticed that room+board costs for colleges here in the northeast US, with their much colder winters, start around $6K and can go as high as $10K.