MDD

This is one of my upsets as well Sally, I find the use of the word Chav quite shocking, they way people spit it out and feel they in some way know what it is like for the great number of people living in those situations. I have recently read a book called "Chav's the demonisation of the working class", which obviously has a different slant on things. He believes that the working class have lost their pride after the council house right to buy policy, turning council estates into ghetto's, destroying the unions and industry.
I am not trying to suggest that this is the answer to everything, there has always been exceptions and I too find it very shocking the attitude of many people and it is one of my biggest worries in returning. However I would also like to point out that many people who make these comments know very little about what life is like being brought up without any hope for a future. I was raised by teenage parents on a council estate and thankfully I went on to be highly educated and successful. However I am not going to point fingers and say well if I did it then everyone else should, because I know how hard it is to break away from that, I was in classes with middle class children who looked on me with distain. People from that background don't see education as an option and instead of looking at changing it we vilify them. They know that society looks at them with distain, we call them Chav's for gods sake and most then end up acting in the way we expect them to do.

dunroving

Curious that homeownership would lead to a loss of pride, one would expect the opposite. Why do you think this is?

I'm not sure the use of a term like chav changes anything. All groups have disparaging words for other groups that are different from them. I'm sure that the underclass (the new terms that is being used instead of working class) has plenty of nasty words for people who are rich or educated.

I'm not sure that the term "chav" necessarily has anything to do with the working class, in the classic meaning of the term "working".

MDD

What the book discusses is that the selling off of what was social housing, for those who previously could often not afford to buy their own home, has left the much smaller amount of council/social housing to become ghetto's. The social mix on council estates was much wider up until the early 80's when the right to buy policy was introduced. Those who could not afford to buy their own home and have remained on the few council estates, are the absolute poorest of society, with a high percentage of single parents, essentially turning them into ghetto's. They are horrendous places to grow up.
Of course home ownership does not lead to a loss of pride and instead produces the opposite, it is those that can't afford to buy their council house that are then left in the worst position.
I completely disagree that chav is not a derogatory term, merely because other classes may also call each other names. Although this is true, it doesn't make it acceptable. Also there has never been a word used for a whole group of people that is used so widely, with such contempt. Despite what many argue, that it is supposed to represent a so called underclass of the population, that don't work and live off benefits, having 10 kids that they claim benefits for etc. It has turned into so much more. It is used as a way to throw insults at people that they consider less educated, less sophisticated, that they don't maintain the best dress sense etc. Certain celebrities are considered chavs, Cheryl Cole, Wayne Rooney, Katie Price and while I can't say I exactly like any of them, I also think it is low class to laugh at people to make myself feel better and they are hardly the underclass.
Certain towns are called chaville, certain shops (poundland, aldi, netto etc), but most of the people who shop there are working. Other so called sophisticated celebrities, who had better opportunities than those that they are throwing insults at, are in the media talking about chavs, Jane Horrocks talking of how Tesco's is full of "chav's". She didn't know if they were working or not, what she meant was that she didn't consider them to be as sophisticated, or mannered as she is. The historian David Starkey has used the term to argue that chav's have adopted black/gang mentality and used it to argue that Enoch Powell knew what he was talking about in not allowing any immigration at all. Prince William and his friends had a fancy dress party where the theme was to dress like a chav, they all arrived wearing lots of bling and burberry. How can it be okay for people with these sorts of opportunities to laugh at people.
We are supposed to have moved on from calling people names based their colour or religion, but calling people a chav in the way that we do is the same thing. The more we do this, the more divided we are going to become.

robin1234

This is probably true. I never lived on a council estate, but back in the seventies I had friends who had middle-class & professional parents (teachers, civil servants, for instance) who lived on council estates and it was seen as a reasonable choice.

Back in the good old days standards for council houses were in advance of the private sector. See the Parker-Morris standards for instance.

Gabgoeshome

A 'chav' is not considered to be a working class person...it is mainly used as a description when a person behaves in a 'chavy' way.

They are the ones in the Burberry/shell -suit , children with bottles way past milk ages (or containing coke if they are)

They are types that hang around the streets calling out rude things to people ,and intimidating innocent people passing by...

Working class and chavs do not go hand in hand.

When wealthy celebs are accused of being a chav, is is mostly because they look like one or have the same dress sense

I don't particularly care either way that they are called 'chav' .as I know they have a word for everyone else outside of what they consider their circle too!

Beedubya

http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-worl...2039-23343114/

20 minutes away from where I live............

Gabgoeshome

Goodness ...its like all or nothing sometimes in the UK!

How do you feel about it? its not far from you is it?

Elvira

To my mind, the word chav is one of the most derogatory terms that one might call another human being. It is branded about right, left and centre, mostly in a completely unthinking way. I think it should be reserved for those individuals that truly merit it, rather than be used to denigrate a whole section of society.

As for council house estates, they too vary a great deal. We bought an ex-council flat in a lovely part of London, and this is where I'll be moving back to. It's a very mixed community, but I have yet to come across anyone who I'd describe as a 'chav'. Most are just ordinary working and retired people - all walks of life and different nationalities. I like it.

Gabgoeshome

I don't agree ,I don't think it is one of the most derogatory words ...I have heard (and been on the receiving) end of much worse.

If it is such a derogatory word ,then nobody deserves it surely? no matter how 'deserving'

I understand that there a few people who have no idea of the various types of families that live on council estates ...and brandishing all tenants/owners 'chavs' is pure stupidity ...says more about *them* than anything else!

I lived in the middle of a council estate in London ...it was very nice and peaceful.

SadInStates

Where I live in the States it's common practice for kids to get a fine and have to do so many hours of community service, for bad citizenship both within school and out.
If the UK adopted such a system, maybe some the places being forced to close due to the cuts could be kept open through teen 'volunteers'!
How hard would it be to have teens serving behind the counter in a library, or cleaning the loos in an understaffed museum for example.

chris955

I must agree, I'm not sure where the idea came from that Chav means working class ? I think NOT working class is more appropriate to be honest. In the same way as bogan doesnt mean working class here, it just means someone with absolutely no dress sense.