JAJ

The Republic of Ireland is another country.

And in Canada and the United States, you generally have to be a resident of the province/state to qualify for "in-province/state" tutition fees.

And although Britain's attitude to its overseas citizens is not ideal, remember that many countries, including other EU states, revoke the citizenship of their nationals who become citizens of other countries. That often precludes returning for tuition fee purposes.

JAJ

Also, those from the Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories are British citizens, but they don't pay U.K. taxes either.

ezzie

I'd say a difference of (at least) 10,000 quid per year is significant!

and yes, you're right, you just have to live anywhere in the EU to be eligible, but live in the U.S., Canada, Far East, Middle East, Australia, N.Z and you are eligible for diddly squat - and of course, these are the countries which most Brits travel to for longer lengths of time.

chicagojlo

Are you aware that you can be born and raised in China or anywhere else and still be a British citizen if your parents are able to pass on citizenship to you? Are you aware that your parents needn't have paid any taxes in the UK to do that? I'm not talking about British citizens born and raised in the UK who have paid taxes for 20 years etc who happen to move. I am talking about the hundreds of thousands of British citizens who have no link to the country except that their parents were born there.

I'm not splitting hairs - your points are inaccurate which is why I'm trying to correct you. You are trying to gain support for your petition by mis-representing the situation and I don't think that's right.

You are the one looking at things from your own personal perspective. I understand what it is you are trying to say. You think that because you are British your kids should be able to go to uni in the UK at home rates regardless of previous residence. You are the one refusing to see the consequences for others of removing the residence requirement.

JAJ

You obviously didn't read the context. Maybe look at it again before jumping to a conclusion.

EU citizens are not "exempt" from fees as you so crudely state in your signature, they have to meet the same residence rules as British citizens.

ezzie

EU citizens are exempt from paying overseas fees...thought I'd made that obvious. They pay UK home fees which are around 10,000 quid cheaper.

I'm beginning to see why Britain ain't quite so great as it used to be with these comments. I think there are many areas where ex-pats get a raw deal, pensions for one, but there's plenty of others out there fighting for that one.

Not sure what all the point is about China. If there are British citizens there, then of course they should be eligible to pay the same rates as other British citizens.

I have no idea why you believe it was 'crudely stated' in my signature. I am not one to be 'crude' or get uppity on these boards as anyone will tell you and in all my time, I've never been personally attacked by a moderator! Off for a soothing cup of tea ...

chicagojlo

By the way would this not be of use to most children affected by this?

From www.ukcosa.org.uk

If you can demonstrate that you have not been ordinarily
resident in the relevant residence area only because you
were, or your ‘relevant family member’ was,
temporarily working outside the relevant residence
area, you will be treated as though you have been
ordinarily resident for the period during which this was
the case.

JAJ

They pay overseas fees, if they have not got 3 years residence in the EEA.

If you don't believe me, why not read the rules for yourself:
http://www.ukcosa.org.uk/files/pdf/i..._fees_ewni.pdf

Because it is misleading and wrong (see above).

chicagojlo

Substitute China for India, or America, or Canada, or any other non-EU country you like. The country doesn't matter. What does matter is that you are saying that people who are British but don't have any ties to the country, were not born there and who have parents who never paid taxes there should be entitled to home rates SIMPLY because they have British citizenship. For no other reason whatsoever other than their parents were able to pass on nationality to them. I don't get why it's so hard to understand.

moneypenny20

I might ruffle a few feathers here but to my mind it's irrelevant how much tax you've paid in the past or your parents have paid. If you leave the country (whatever country) and then several years later want to go back for whatever reason, you don't have a god given right to everything you did previously. The government don't bank your taxes for use by you for the rest of your lives. You paid your taxes for the time you were there and got the benefit of 'free' health care, education, etc etc whilst you were there. You choose to move away, the rules are there.

Don't expect anyone to agree with me, just giving my opinion

Disclaimer: You in the above statement was in the general context, not specific to any one person. Also 'free' was in italics because I fully realise and understand that those things are not actually free.

Famous 5

I have signed the petition as I think the current position is not ideal.

I am on a temporary visa in Australia (although a resident for tax purposes so I pay tax on my income in Australia), but I still pay UK taxes on income I receive in the UK. Even so, if I decide to return to the UK it will be for me/my children to prove that they would be entitled to a uni place on home fees rather than international fees. This seems wrong to me. We continue to pay tax in the UK so I think our children should have an automatic entitlement to attend a UK university at home rates.

No matter how long we stay in Australia, our children will pay international uni fees unless we become PRs. I have already paid international fees (ouch!) for a course of study in Australia - luckily there are a couple more years before the first of my children will be off to uni, but unless our circumstances change they will pay international fees. Perhaps we're just in the worst position of not being automatically eligible for home rates in either country.

I'm not against EU residents having access to UK universities at home rates (it is, after all, part and parcel of the whole package of being part of Europe and the benefits that brings), but I do object to having to prove that my kids are entitled to that benefit too. Perhaps there should be a sliding scale based on how long people have been away and not just a discretion for those whose work takes them away for a year or two.

tillysmum

Similar to us. We are on a PR visa though but hubby gets a uk work pension pays tax on that in UK, we still have our house in UK and will prob have to pay a bit of tax on that too and money in high interest account which we pay tax on. If we stayed till daughter finishes senior school here which would be the ideal situation for her. Then go home will have to pay almost £9,000 pa in Uni fees.

Giantaxe

Even though I had children who would have benefitted from being able to get resident tuition rates simply because they were British citizens, I agree with your sentiments. I think it's an unreasonable expectation to move away, typically stop paying taxes on income, but still expect services paid out of taxes as though nothing had changed. Obviously there will be some situations that will seem unfair (some of which have been highlighted in this thread), but I think requiring residence for a period is the fairest and simplest way of dealing with this.

christmasoompa

Ditto, my thoughts exactly and I won't be signing the petition for that reason, despite having two young children that may want to attend a UK university in the future. If we choose to leave the UK then that is our choice and that's just one of the aspects of leaving that we'll have weighed up before making an informed decision.

I really don't see why our children should be allowed to attend a UK uni at a reduced rate if we haven't paid into the UK economy for years - just as we wouldn't expect free NHS treatment if we returned home for a visit just because we've paid taxes for years! If we leave then we've forfeited those rights as far as I'm concerned, but that's part of the decision.

Just my opinion mind..............

workman

I think it goes back to the traditional sense that being a citizen of a certain country should confer certain privileges whether or not you live in that country; the sense of belonging somewhere and having a "home."

In my case we left England 7 years ago to work as volunteers with a charity in the 3rd world. We don't have a wage - we live on donations. Yes, it was our choice to do that.

Prior to leaving we worked and paid our dues in taxes. We would like to think that when we return, our teenage children will be able to have a UK uni education; however, it seems unless the law changes, then that will depend on whether the links we've maintained with the UK, and the annual renewable nature of our contract abroad will allow us to be treated as temporarily employed abroad.

If not, probably a UK uni education would be closed to our children, which is a pity since where we live there is no adequate University education for foreigners.

It does seem a shame that citizenship doesn't mean what it used to, especially when privileges are granted to other EU citizens who have NEVER paid tax in the UK and not to British citizens who have and who resume paying when they return home.

If anyone can advise on how to approach proving the "temporary"nature of employment abroad I would be grateful, I've not found much specific to that on the web.