Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
May 12th 2008, 8:31 am
#16
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
Thank you my darlings...don't worry, I have a daughter whose determined to go into politics...OK, she's just 13 on Wednesday, but she's already made a start. Did anyone see her brilliant article in the SMH on how Aussie teens can't be arsed to get involved with their communities! Yes, a controversial figure already! She wrote the article with her twin sister. So if we get back to the UK, get them into politics, I promise the first thing they'll do is fix the ruddy o/s pensions!
Have signed the petition - it affects expats who go on postings for multi-national companies around the world as well as emigrants who change their mind...you have to plan your next post/retirement to get back to UK 3 years before kids may want to go to university. Quite frankly it makes a nonsense out of all this global economy stuff. I still pay tax on my assets in the UK as well so it's extremely discriminatory.
May 12th 2008, 2:54 pm
#17
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
What I am suggesting is the exact policy that Australia has.
In any case, there is scope for compromise, such as only charging international fees for the first year (this is what some Canadian provinces do).
It really does boil down to what extent British citizens should receive preference in their own country.
In any case, there is scope for compromise, such as only charging international fees for the first year (this is what some Canadian provinces do).
It really does boil down to what extent British citizens should receive preference in their own country.
Oh and for those of you who don't know this, people who were not able to vote before leaving the country don't get to vote once they leave (no election between when I was old enough and when I left so I never voted). You all might get to vote but there are plenty that don't. In fact I have never been eligible to vote in any country.
Last edited by chicagojlo; May 12th 2008 at 2:58 pm.
May 12th 2008, 8:18 pm
#18
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
We checked about coming back to Australia - no problemo. The ruling is, if you're Australian...then you're entitled to an Australian education no matter how long you've been out of the country. Simple and fair.
[quote=chicagojlo;6340242]Well since not all of us live in Australia what is the Australian policy?
[quote=chicagojlo;6340242]Well since not all of us live in Australia what is the Australian policy?
May 13th 2008, 12:18 am
#19
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
I think it's absurd that people who have never lived in a country and who's parents have paid little or no tax should be entitled to a reduced rate university education in that country simply because they have citizenship.
I can't imagine the rule ever being changed in the way you want for the simple fact that there would be way too many British citizens sending their previously non-resident kids over for a (nearly) free education then shipping them back out again.
I can't imagine the rule ever being changed in the way you want for the simple fact that there would be way too many British citizens sending their previously non-resident kids over for a (nearly) free education then shipping them back out again.
May 13th 2008, 7:35 am
#20
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
You're wrong - firstly, most ex-paths have paid significant amounts of tax before heading off overseas. Secondly, uni fees in the U.S/Canada/N.Z/Australia etc are not necessarily more expensive than in the UK. The idea would be that they get equality to EU residents (who have in all probability never paid ANY tax to the UK.) EU residents can pay UK 'home' fees as long as they can prove they are residing in the UK for reasons other than going there for an education.
Equality is all we're after. Remember, most of these kids were actually born in the UK or not long after leaving. It seems absurd when EU residents have more right to a British education than the British themselves.
Equality is all we're after. Remember, most of these kids were actually born in the UK or not long after leaving. It seems absurd when EU residents have more right to a British education than the British themselves.
I think it's absurd that people who have never lived in a country and who's parents have paid little or no tax should be entitled to a reduced rate university education in that country simply because they have citizenship.
I can't imagine the rule ever being changed in the way you want for the simple fact that there would be way too many British citizens sending their previously non-resident kids over for a (nearly) free education then shipping them back out again.
I can't imagine the rule ever being changed in the way you want for the simple fact that there would be way too many British citizens sending their previously non-resident kids over for a (nearly) free education then shipping them back out again.
May 13th 2008, 7:53 am
#21
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
You're wrong - firstly, most ex-paths have paid significant amounts of tax before heading off overseas. Secondly, uni fees in the U.S/Canada/N.Z/Australia etc are not necessarily more expensive than in the UK. The idea would be that they get equality to EU residents (who have in all probability never paid ANY tax to the UK.) EU residents can pay UK 'home' fees as long as they can prove they are residing in the UK for reasons other than going there for an education.
Equality is all we're after. Remember, most of these kids were actually born in the UK or not long after leaving. It seems absurd when EU residents have more right to a British education than the British themselves.
Equality is all we're after. Remember, most of these kids were actually born in the UK or not long after leaving. It seems absurd when EU residents have more right to a British education than the British themselves.
May 13th 2008, 12:04 pm
#22
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
That is not fact-based ... they are subject to the same 3 year residence rule.
May 13th 2008, 2:36 pm
#23
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
You're wrong - firstly, most ex-paths have paid significant amounts of tax before heading off overseas. Secondly, uni fees in the U.S/Canada/N.Z/Australia etc are not necessarily more expensive than in the UK. The idea would be that they get equality to EU residents (who have in all probability never paid ANY tax to the UK.) EU residents can pay UK 'home' fees as long as they can prove they are residing in the UK for reasons other than going there for an education.
Equality is all we're after. Remember, most of these kids were actually born in the UK or not long after leaving. It seems absurd when EU residents have more right to a British education than the British themselves.
Equality is all we're after. Remember, most of these kids were actually born in the UK or not long after leaving. It seems absurd when EU residents have more right to a British education than the British themselves.
If you lived in the UK your children would have the same access to a French or German education as a French or German child without having to meet their residency requirements, whereas a French or German child returning from outside the EU would not. It is not about tax paid in the UK, it is about tax paid in the EU. If you have paid your taxes in the EU you are entitled to an education from an EU country at the same price as a local of that country.
Plenty of British expats are using this rule to send their kids to university in other EU countries, I used it myself. The equality you think you are asking for already exists. You need to correct your argument if you want to get anywhere with it.
Last edited by chicagojlo; May 13th 2008 at 2:47 pm.
May 13th 2008, 7:17 pm
#24
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May 13th 2008, 7:24 pm
#25
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
Whilst the right to attend an EU uni is part of EU membership, the fact is that the UK is the only country I know of...and I've checked a few, which does NOT allow citizens to pay 'home' rates for tertiary education. I really believe that citizenship should bring inherent rights to encourage the return of its nationals and their offspring. It's currently a cruel ruling, particularly as other countries readily accept their citizens back on equal terms.
[quote=chicagojlo;6344656]I'm not wrong - I'm living and breathing proof of an expat who hasn't paid much tax and my daughter is living and breathing proof of a British citizen who wasn't born in the UK and who has never lived there. Not saying that all expats are like me but they're not all like you either. If you change the rule you change it for ALL British citizens. That includes me and my daughter and any other British citizens who have never lived in the UK or the EU or paid any taxes there.
[quote=chicagojlo;6344656]I'm not wrong - I'm living and breathing proof of an expat who hasn't paid much tax and my daughter is living and breathing proof of a British citizen who wasn't born in the UK and who has never lived there. Not saying that all expats are like me but they're not all like you either. If you change the rule you change it for ALL British citizens. That includes me and my daughter and any other British citizens who have never lived in the UK or the EU or paid any taxes there.
May 13th 2008, 8:51 pm
#26
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
Whilst the right to attend an EU uni is part of EU membership, the fact is that the UK is the only country I know of...and I've checked a few, which does NOT allow citizens to pay 'home' rates for tertiary education. I really believe that citizenship should bring inherent rights to encourage the return of its nationals and their offspring. It's currently a cruel ruling, particularly as other countries readily accept their citizens back on equal terms.
If you could find a Euro MP willing to take on the case you would have a shot, but the tactic you are currently taking is the wrong one. I don't think the UK would remove the rule unless forced to by the EU (to achieve harmonisation) because as I said there are probably so many British citizens who have never lived or worked in the UK who would send their kids to the UK for (virtually) free educations that it would become impossible to manage.
May 13th 2008, 9:11 pm
#27
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
But it's not 'virtually free'...that's the point. A uni education in the UK at home rates, costs about the same as a uni education here in Australia.
The point is, which you keep missing, is that British Citizens who leave the country for more than a year are forced to pay the same as a student from China who has no links to Britain nor paid any tax.
I hardly think there'd be an overwhelming flood of Brits sending their offspring back to Britain in order to pay more than they would for an education in their adopted country. It would however ensure that those British families wishing to return to live, would not be forced to endure a banishment of kind.
It is not a discrepancy within EU countries, it is much wider than that. It is essentially about British Citizens being treated as 3rd class in relation to EU nationals. This is essentially a point, which seems to be an increasing issue back home, relating to the British people increasingly losing their rights, heritage and sense of belonging. Brits are being alienated from their own country and I really think we all need to work hard to remedy it.
The point is, which you keep missing, is that British Citizens who leave the country for more than a year are forced to pay the same as a student from China who has no links to Britain nor paid any tax.
I hardly think there'd be an overwhelming flood of Brits sending their offspring back to Britain in order to pay more than they would for an education in their adopted country. It would however ensure that those British families wishing to return to live, would not be forced to endure a banishment of kind.
It is not a discrepancy within EU countries, it is much wider than that. It is essentially about British Citizens being treated as 3rd class in relation to EU nationals. This is essentially a point, which seems to be an increasing issue back home, relating to the British people increasingly losing their rights, heritage and sense of belonging. Brits are being alienated from their own country and I really think we all need to work hard to remedy it.
Then your argument should be that the UK is not in line with the EU in that it has the 3 year residence rule and other EU countries do not, not that EU students are unfairly being allowed to attend UK universities because that is not in fact the case. Your children could attend university at 'home rates' in any other EU country and so they are being offered the same benefit as the other EU children. That is why I said the equality you think you need to ask for already exists.
If you could find a Euro MP willing to take on the case you would have a shot, but the tactic you are currently taking is the wrong one. I don't think the UK would remove the rule unless forced to by the EU (to achieve harmonisation) because as I said there are probably so many British citizens who have never lived or worked in the UK who would send their kids to the UK for (virtually) free educations that it would become impossible to manage.
If you could find a Euro MP willing to take on the case you would have a shot, but the tactic you are currently taking is the wrong one. I don't think the UK would remove the rule unless forced to by the EU (to achieve harmonisation) because as I said there are probably so many British citizens who have never lived or worked in the UK who would send their kids to the UK for (virtually) free educations that it would become impossible to manage.
May 13th 2008, 9:24 pm
#28
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
But it's not 'virtually free'...that's the point. A uni education in the UK at home rates, costs about the same as a uni education here in Australia.
The point is, which you keep missing, is that British Citizens who leave the country for more than a year are forced to pay the same as a student from China who has no links to Britain nor paid any tax. I'm sure a British university education is a lot cheaper than a American one for a start.
I hardly think there'd be an overwhelming flood of Brits sending their offspring back to Britain in order to pay more than they would for an education in their adopted country. It would however ensure that those British families wishing to return to live, would not be forced to endure a banishment of kind.
It is not a discrepancy within EU countries, it is much wider than that. It is essentially about British Citizens being treated as 3rd class in relation to EU nationals. This is essentially a point, which seems to be an increasing issue back home, relating to the British people increasingly losing their rights, heritage and sense of belonging. Brits are being alienated from their own country and I really think we all need to work hard to remedy it.
The point is, which you keep missing, is that British Citizens who leave the country for more than a year are forced to pay the same as a student from China who has no links to Britain nor paid any tax. I'm sure a British university education is a lot cheaper than a American one for a start.
I hardly think there'd be an overwhelming flood of Brits sending their offspring back to Britain in order to pay more than they would for an education in their adopted country. It would however ensure that those British families wishing to return to live, would not be forced to endure a banishment of kind.
It is not a discrepancy within EU countries, it is much wider than that. It is essentially about British Citizens being treated as 3rd class in relation to EU nationals. This is essentially a point, which seems to be an increasing issue back home, relating to the British people increasingly losing their rights, heritage and sense of belonging. Brits are being alienated from their own country and I really think we all need to work hard to remedy it.
Personally I think the UK is right. If you think you can make a better life elsewhere than the UK then go ahead. But to think you should be able to come crying back and start taking advantage of the services all over again that previously were not good enough for you? You're right in that your kids didn't make that choice. But you did, and now the UK is asking you to pay for that decision.
And btw in case it escaped your attention UK citizens are also EU citizens.
Last edited by chicagojlo; May 13th 2008 at 9:27 pm.
May 13th 2008, 10:07 pm
#29
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
No, hadn't escaped my attention.
Obviously, when I wrote about someone from China, I meant exactly that and not a British Citizen who just happens to live in China.....sigh! I think you're splitting hairs now and haven't actually read my posts with an open mind.
If you're so determined that the current situation is OK...great, then just don't sign the petition. You are only looking at the situation from your personal perspective and not others and not in comparison to what other countries offer their nationals.
Obviously, when I wrote about someone from China, I meant exactly that and not a British Citizen who just happens to live in China.....sigh! I think you're splitting hairs now and haven't actually read my posts with an open mind.
If you're so determined that the current situation is OK...great, then just don't sign the petition. You are only looking at the situation from your personal perspective and not others and not in comparison to what other countries offer their nationals.
The point you keep missing is that when you say British citizens you could be including a person from China who also happens to have British citizenship but who has no links to Britain nor paid any tax. My own daughter would qualify as that only she'd be American. The way they distinguish it at the moment is with the 3 year rule. How do you propose they distinguish it in the future?
Personally I think the UK is right. If you think you can make a better life elsewhere than the UK then go ahead. But to think you should be able to come crying back and start taking advantage of the services all over again that previously were not good enough for you? You're right in that your kids didn't make that choice. But you did, and now the UK is asking you to pay for that decision.
And btw in case it escaped your attention UK citizens are also EU citizens.
Personally I think the UK is right. If you think you can make a better life elsewhere than the UK then go ahead. But to think you should be able to come crying back and start taking advantage of the services all over again that previously were not good enough for you? You're right in that your kids didn't make that choice. But you did, and now the UK is asking you to pay for that decision.
And btw in case it escaped your attention UK citizens are also EU citizens.
May 13th 2008, 11:15 pm
#30
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Re: Please sign this petition...it benefits us all (well, those with kids)!
British citizens who live elsewhere in the EU are also generally eligible for U.K home fees.
There are some differences between the treatment of those from EU states and British citizens but are not as significant as you suggest.
There are some differences between the treatment of those from EU states and British citizens but are not as significant as you suggest.