Making A Final Decision
 

Hi Guys,

Am back at the point where I need to decide if I want to stay in Oz but just cant make my mind up as its like a pendulum. Staying in Oz professionally and financially is the sensible option. Well paid, lots of opportunities and able to save a lot of money. However like others I feel like a square peg in a round hole. Hate having to repeat myself all the time due to the Scottish accent, Hate having the feeling of not belonging and worried about living here in the long term alone with out family and the security of things in the UK.

Love Oz for the lifestyle, work and weather.....is it enough?

Not sure I really miss home or family to be honest. However I know when I am at home am happy with my lot in life. In Oz I still check the local news, BBc news, think about home. However am getting to the age where I want to settle, buy a house etc. But I keep wondering if I will regret going back to Scotland and settling there. The other factor is I still have my job back in Scotland and well if I give it up, I dont see any jobs in my speciality coming up for good five years due to the GEC.

I kind of thing I should go home, settle and if after a few years am feeling dissatisfied at home, I can always return to Oz. So people any advice to make my decision final. You experience would be great.

Regards

Scottie x

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I think a lot depends on what you mean by "want to settle" - get married and have kids? If so, then ask yourself where you want to spend the rest of your life because from all the posts on the issue, once you marry a "feriner" your options may be reduced. If you just mean buy a house, you can still buy a house in Aus and if you decide to leave, sell it (of course the wild card issue is where house prices are headed).

I think the answer also depends on what age you are and what your timeline is - how long have you been in all of these places?

Bottom line though is that whatever advice you get here, your decision will likely still be the same. Otherwise, just trawl posts from the last 5 years and everything you need to consider has been discussed a million times over.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Sounds like you dont have much to lose by giving UK a go for a while - see if you feel you belong there any better than you belong in Aus. For me it would be a no brainer as I do feel like I belong in UK and having a job to return to would be the icing on the cake.

You mentioned settling - I guess it could come down to who do you settle down with and if alone then are you prepared to settle down in isolation from your family/friends network?

You can always return to Aus before your visa expires or if you are a citizen then you can come and go at will.

Good luck with the pendulum thingie - sometimes you can over think things - have you tried tossing a coin?

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Hi Dunroving and quoll,

How's the soggy west coast and cambridge! Here is a bit hot and humid! Not good for the Scottish skin.

As for settling down, at the moment its with myself buying a house, car and do the suburbiah thing. Am 32 while still young, am quite sensible when it comes to thinking about my future, cause goverment certainly seem to be trying to pull the carpet from under our feet!

I suppose the thing that pushes me to going home is that I have been in Oz twice, for a total of 3.5yrs and each time I have arrived at this point, I suppose its telling that I dont think I will settle here in the longterm. I think ill just have to put up with the facts that conditions are worse in the UK job wise, pays worse etc etc but least I will feel settled. Am sure my wee mind will mull it over until D-day, flights are booked as I got them for a steal, the question will be is it a holiday home or have I packed up. Decision!

Scottie x

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I'd say , to anyone, who's really serious about going home do it sooner rather than later.

Fejaouk : I think you'll find it easier to go back now rather than in 10 -15 or however many years. Good luck whatever you do and remember whatever decision you make is the right one for YOU.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Yes very true, for me! Thanks mate.

Scottie

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

In pretty much the same position as you Scottie, I too feel like my mind is like a pendulum, one day I say 'just do it' then the next its "OMG don't do it', lol! I have been in Oz for 17 years (originally from South Wales), came here when I was 21, think about home everyday, and each time I go home it feels right. We went home about a month ago and went to Scotland, what a wonderful place, magical. I think its all in the planning, I agree with what you say about Oz being the safe, secure place by way of a job and financial security, I have a good job here in Brisbane and a house in Brisbane and Sydney. Our plan is to rent out our properties so we are not giving everything up in Oz. Its a tough one, I wanted to go back 10 years ago and looking back (hindsight!) I wish I had, I just don't want to look back in another 10 years with regrets - sounds like I have made my decision but then that pendulum comes back, lol. Good luck, do keep us posted, I am sure it will all become clear and fall into place :)

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I'm hearing this thing alot about feeling like an outsider, square pegs/round holes.
I've no idea where it comes from...I work with the lot in Sydney...Aus/NZ/Thai/Indian/Chineese/Wow! just realised no Brits!. Everyone with the same worries and we all seem to laugh at the same thing.

Let go mate....you are holding on to something back in the old country...some romantic dream of what its like.
Let go....or should it be join in?
Maybe this is what it feels like to be an Indian or Pakastani living in UK. Always like an outsider...well maybe they are not just trying hard enough...are you?

The UK is up the swanny mate...stay put.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Have you ever lived abroad for any length of time? I suspect not because if you had, you would understand what people mean and not be so quick to dismiss peoples' feelings just because you can't imagine them.

For me here in the US, feeling like an outsider is ...

• Sitting around like piffy while people talk passionately about American football when you think it's the stupidest thing you've ever seen.
  
• Having random strangers say "I'll pray for you" any time something bad happens instead of "sorry to hear that, mate."
  
• Making a sarky joke and then realizing everyone thought you were being cruel.
  
• Watching a Republican Presidential debate for more than 1 minute and wondering if the whole place has gone mad.
  
• Living in a country where the governor of a major state thinks an appropriate response to a drought is a "national day of prayer."
  
• Seeing people carry guns as if they were toys.
  
• Smiling politely and pretending that you think Saturday Night Live is even remotely amusing.
  
• Sitting around with work colleagues talking about 'the good old days' and realizing you don't share any experiences or memories.
  
• Trying to make friends - and sometimes succeeding - but never quite connecting all the way.
  
• Talking to people who think it's perfectly reasonable to have fighter jets fly over every time the national anthem is sung at a sports event.
  
• Watching the world cup but then having no one to discuss it with afterwards.
  
• Wanting fish and chips and only being able to get McDonalds or Wendy's
  
• Asking for a cup of tea and getting some weak brown water with a slice of lemon
  
• Having every stranger who meets you think you love the royal family (or know them personally!) just because you're a Brit

Those are just a few and I'm sure everyone has their own list, but the point is that it's not something you can understand until you've spent a few years in another country. For some people, their new lives are so enjoyable that the good outweighs the things they miss. But for some of us, it's not that way - especially as you get older and your priorities change.

As for the UK having "gone down the swanee," that's not the experience of either my friends or my family members, so perhaps it all depends on where you live and how you look at life :)

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Some really good points there.
Sorry if I upset you.

Just making sure you are sure I guess.

Emigrating is not for everyone one I guess
I've lived away since I was 22. I've emigrated twice now.

Maybe I'm lucky I tend not to put my roots down too deep and am lucky my other half is like that as well.

Also did not realize you are in the states (thought aus)
I love aus and the people seem similar.

Best of luck chap I think after this you have a clearer picture of what you want.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I agree with Sally. For me, life in the UK is good so far. Well, I have health problems but these would have occured wherever I was living. My family are all happy here too, at least they don't think moving to another country would be a magic solution to all things. The expat experience isn't the same for everyone, some love it and want to stay, some hate it and want to go back, some love the experience of it and are glad they did it but ultimately want to go back, and others could go either way and either stay or go because of a foreign spouse. My husband is an American and he hated it here at first but he's really quite settled here now he's got a job he really likes, he even moans about all the adverts on TV when we're in America! I think he'd like better weather in the summer here and he misses US sports, but you can't have everything. He likes to keep up with all the talk shows from New England via podcasts. The world is definitely a smaller place nowadays. I can't help but thinking back to wartime GI brides from the UK. Wouldn't they have been thrilled if they could have had Skype, cheap phone calls, yearly flights home etc instead of just letters?

The only thing I would say to anyone who gets the chance is apply for citizenship of your new country. That way you didn't burn any bridges, and I believe naturalised citizens can pass on their new citizenship to any children they have. Dual citizenship is a great gift to give a child!

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

You didn't upset me at all - sorry if it seemed that way. I just wanted to say that you can feel like a square peg in a round hole even when you try hard not to. I've been away 22 years now, and I don't regret emigrating at all. I have had lots of great experiences and met lots of great people. And up to a few years ago, I would have sounded just like you I think. I generally was very happy here and able to overlook all the ways I didn't fit in.

But, for me at least, my priorities have changed now. My mum and my in-laws are not getting any younger. And I'm sick of seeing my closest friends only once every few years. And feeling like I belong seems more important than it did when I was in my twenties and thirties. It's just time to go back to my roots - it's funny but I haven't ever felt as sure about any decision in my life and yet it's not one I ever expected to make.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Out of the blue your quote reminded me an old disco record called "Going Back To My Roots" (which I think may have coincided with an American TV show or series called 'Roots'...?)

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

OP it sounds to me like you have already made your mind up but that you just want a nudge to make it happen... you're still young enough to follow your heart :D

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I am just eight weeks away from boarding a plane to blighty and have feelings you do, I am almost thirty and left the UK straight after uni, along the way got married and moved to Oz via Canada. We are now going to embark on a new adventure in the UK, my wife is from Oz but has previously lived in London. When your heart is gone from a place you just know its time. Take the advice given here if you have the chance to become a citizen do it, its a great safety net.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

You hit the nail on the head, it's the same list my wife and I have, we are really close to start the process of moving back home, were in a small town in Wisconsin so that list just grows and becomes more real every day, i'm pretty sure they call us legal Aliens because that's exactly how it feels, unfortunately my 16 and 12 year olds love it here and even put on bad accents to fit it so will be Mr Unpopular when i try to get them back to reality

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Sally you are 100% BANG ON !!

I went to a party on Saturday night with wife and there were just two other couples there , all American, very pleasant people etc, etc but I didn't enjoy myself because they aren't "my" people. Just the interaction between everyone, the flow of the conversation is so different from home.

Years ago I'd have loved it because they were so different but it seems as I've got older I've just got worn out with being "different".

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I`ve been in the USA four and a half years, going home next year if all goes to plan, and I couldnt agree more with you, Sally. Sport and politics play a huge part in life here. I`m not interested in the former, unless its footie, and the politics I find laughable. When we first came here I remembered I was a guest and didnt voice opinions. Now, that`s wearing thin. The whole injustice of healthcare breaks my heart. Last week at church (yes, thats one way I do fit in) the hispanic population were having a big dinner, $12 a head. When I asked what it was in aid of, they told me a member had had an accident and they were raising money to pay for his hospital treatment.
I feel as if my horizons here have narrowed, not broadened and when I watch British tv I realise how dumb American tv is. And dont get me started on the food. I`ve found gourmet to have a whole different meaning here........

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

All the time I see posters at local supermarkets for appeals to help pay towards healthcare costs. This appeal was posted on a local messageboard today - my friend actually works with the same clients as the mother of this poor child with a brain tumour (my friend said that there isn't a lot of hope for the poor kid, who is a triplet, his prognosis is not good). They live in the next town to me in New Jersey but the mum and her sick son are in Memphis, Tennessee until mid-Jan ***and "their health insurance is not covering any treatments to date"***

They may go bankrupt - as well as possibly lose their son :(

http://forum.maplewoodonline.com/vc/...r-help#Item_23

How lucky we British expats are to know deep down that if we are well enough to travel back to the UK to reside permanently, we will never have to worry about having battles with medical insurers or losing our homes due to medical costs. I do not intend to grow old in the US....I'm planning to apply for citizenship next year and hopefully if I get it, I'm off....:thumbsup:

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

It`s all very sad, we are so lucky in the UK and I took the right to healthcare completely for granted until I moved here.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I think that about sums it up for me too. :thumbsup:

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Perhaps the Christmas thread I have started up this morning might help you to make your decisions. ;)

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=741073

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Hi,

My name is Adam Marshall and I'm a reporter with Ch7's Today Tonight program. I'm researching return migration, which is basically migrants wanting to move home. It's at an all time high.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I'm with you on that....so unfunny! So flippin' glad we've got VPN and bbc/itv/channel 4 at our fingertips. I see you are heading back sooner rather than later - I am, as they say, "well jell".

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Ain't that the truth.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Adam, please read the rules regarding research, and note that there is a forum specifically for media generated requests that are approved by the admins
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=74

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I don't usually post on this forum as I am in the UK about to emigrate so don't feel it's my place to post but often read posts and have replied to a couple so far and felt like I had to reply to yours.

You know for me reading your post what jumped out at me was the use of the word "home"... you don't consider Oz your "home" and home for me means where you are content, settled and happy.

IMHO "professional" and "financial" reasons don't make people happy. People and relationships do... I would say go where your heart is... and to me it sounds like it's Scotland for you. Don't burn any bridges - if you come "home" and decide that you miss Oz then go back... simples....

Good luck... :)

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Just catching up on this thread and think Sally made some very good points as well as a few other members in the forum.

I am 57, came to Canada 3 years ago as a single person with an aunt and uncle living here. I feel like an outsider. I have lived in various places in the UK, never had any problems getting work or making new friends but I am really struggling here.

I have tried joining things but people already have their social networks established. Work is often a way of making friendships. I was laid off 6 months ago in a medium size organisation after 2 years just as I felt I was getting to 'fit in'.

I am going to apply for citizenship and I am going to give it one more year
I have another job now but it is in a small office - just 3 people I am not sure it is going to help me anchor here but it will help pay for a return to England.

(I was unable to sell my house in England so I have a home to go back to.)

I am doing office work as it is the only work I can find but my background is academic/local government management

The only anchor I really have is my aunt and uncle who are in their 70s. It is the lack of shared culture (and sense of humour) that makes it difficiult to integrate. I love Canada and I have no regrets about giving it a try; I did lots of research and knew it could be difficult to find work initially but I think I truly underestimated how difficult it would be to integrate.

It has been a great experience but a costly one if I do decide to return to England.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

To be honest am not sure if my problem is the feeling of not belonging or grass is greener syndrome. Most of the time I feel settled here and amazed at the great weather, I certainly do more, experience more than I ever did in Scotland and other times I just worry about my future here alone, think about how life is more secure with the NHS, family etc. On the flipside I worry am giving up an opportunity that I will regret in the future and the opportunity not to work till am 67! There are only so many times you can ping pong back and forth as its not a cheap game.

I know no one here can make my decision but its nice that people care and give their oppinons and pearls of wisdom on this subject.


Scott

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I wouldn't take that as given. All countries have the same problem -- people living longer and fewer younger workers to pay for their pensions. Most pension plans are not fund based -- ie the money we pay each month goes into investments that eventually pay the pension. Instead they're pyramid plans where those working pay the pensions of the retired. There used to be many workers for each retiree, but now it's few.

I don't see how places like Australia, the US, and Canada can avoid going the same way.

Bev

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Hi Scott,

I have returned to the UK just over three months ago, after 17 years of living overseas, I felt the same as you do now, but in the end I decided that if I didn't try I would never know! On hindsight I should have stayed where I was, I had a good job, friends, nice weather an easier way of life. None of which I have back here! I thought that it would be nice to be near family, hook back up with old friends, make new ones, find a great job! But its not like that when you get here. I would say to you if you are happy where you are the majority of the time, then stay where you are, if you have a good job, friends etc, then don't rush back! Maybe look at returning when you really can't stand it anymore.

Good Luck!:fingerscrossed:

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I agree. It's so important to be realistic and think through pros and cons rather than just acting on emotion.

For me a job isn't an issue and all my friends are in the UK. I am leaving behind a nice house and sunshine but you can't live on those things. I need to be back with my friends and family and luckily we are still close.

I think everyone has to analyze the pluses and minuses - with a REALISTIC perspective on how things will be - and only make the move if it makes sense.

And one of the most important things to consider is whether you have fully thought through the upheaval you're about to experience. No, you won't easily walk into a great job. And no, your friends won't be just as you left them. You'll have to work at building a life and it will take 2-3 years before you really feel things are back on an even keel. If you're not prepared to work at it and give it a good long time, don't go back. Because you'll just cost yourself a lot of money!

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Well the US has an infamous 'pull the ladder up Jack' attitude to almost all public services so I don't think they really worry about all of that stuff and although Canada is technically a welfare state, I think the public services in a lot of provinces leave a lot to be desired, particularly considering that the taxes in Canada are insane.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

This is a decision that we are just going through at the moment though, we have been in Canada for nearly a year now but I definitely feel like a bit of a square peg even though I managed to find a pretty decent job with almost no difficulty which actually pays more than I earned back at home.

My OH on the other hand hates it here and pines for Europe again, even though she was the one who was pushing for us to move out here in the first place. :frown:

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I enjoyed reading that.



Going into a pub and trying to have a conversation and fighting with the distraction of a score of televisions.

Trying to lip sync the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem at meetings /sporting events. aka John Redwood and the welsh national anthem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

It is not easy making that decision to want to go back to where you call home.

I have been in Sydney now for 13 years and have reached a stage where I have decided to move back to the UK. I have based this on the fact that I am getting old (46) and miss people back in the UK.

I have a nice lifestyle here, very nice, but I find that I am working to save up to travel back to the UK each year to see everyone and that all my holidays are dedicated to going back to see family and friends.

I too face the trauma on a daily basis of asking if I am doing the right thing. I worry about finding a job, somewhere to live and if I will be able to fit back into a UK lifestyle. Here in Sydney I have security, an apartment, and as I say a nice lifestyle, but what worries me is that as I do get older I worry about how I will be able to continue to save and travel back and forth. Apart from my English partner here we have no family.

Our decision to move back now is based on us being in our late 40's and feeling that if we are to find work then we need to do it now while we are young enough to do it and not to leave it until we are too old and harder to find work. But of course work is not going to be easy to find in the current climate. And yes, that frightens me. But each year we put it off we get older and the prospect of returning seems harder to do.

So I guess the moral is to work out why you want to go back and to really thrash it out. Our friends here do not want us to go and it is going to be hard to leave them behind, but we really do find it hard to see us retiring here.

It is odd because when we first arrived it took a couple of years to settle. We would only go back to the UK every three years. Now it is every year. And each time we do we love it. Of course holidays are not the same as living there but there is always that homely feel about it. But moving back was never a thought then.

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I too am at that stage and wondering whether to stay or go. Been in Oz for nearly 4 years now and just waiting to apply for citizenship in a few months.
I went back to the UK a few months ago and it nearly killed me to return here, I cried all the way back. Like a lot of people here I am close to my family and my parents aren't getting any younger.
The health system in Oz worries me a lot, if I got ill or injured I would probably struggle. In the UK I'd be entitled to 6 months with full pay and 6 months at half pay, here in Oz I have to EARN my sick leave and its only 90 hours a year. Sometimes when I have been ill like had a chest infection or a migraine I've gone into work anyways as I don't want to 'waste' my sick leave.
I would give up a nice house and great weather but I own my own property in the UK, I'd be near my family and, as I have taken a 5 year sabbatical from my job, I'd have that to go back to. I preferred my job in the UK as well, here I hate my arrogant rude Aussie boss who just loves to put me down all the time both personally and professionally on a daily basis and, of course, if I fight back I get "well go back home ya whinging Pom" - nice!
I have decided to leave it up to the Gods for now. I have put in for a another job but it is a long drawn out process and I am applying for citizenship in March. Whatever comes through first I will take but its my 4th Xmas here alone and I am pretty much over it. Good luck with your decision but like others have said before, nothing is permanent, you can always come back if you feel you have made a mistake! :)

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I have been in Canada three years and am giving it another year before a final decision. I can apply for citizenship next month and will probably put in an application because I am trying to keep my options open although I am leaning towards a return.

I still have a house in the UK which is rented out and I still have a bank and credit card accounts; I receive a local government pension which will cover the essentials of daily living, if I am careful.

Finding work has been tough for me here; I was laid off in April and after 6 months managed to find another job - I had to return to office/clerical work to get anything at all.

I haven't made that many new friends and find it hard to connect with people - they all seem to have their own social circles with friends and family. In England I had moved around a fair bit with work and made a number of friends along the way not just from work but by joining in local groups.

For me, there are just not sufficient anchors here at the moment to keep me, so I am thinking of returning in Spring 2013, when I can hopefully afford to return (with 4 animals this time - OMG and I promised the cat she would never have to fly again!). I miss my friends and I know it may take time to find work in the UK, but the longer I leave it, the harder it will be to establish myself again.

Like a previous poster, I could not see myself retired here ...

I have had some great experiences and if I hadn't emigrated, I would have had regrets, because it was something I always wanted to do.

There is no shame in trying something new and deciding 'it's not for me' - it takes guts and determination to uproot yourself and move to a new country, so for anyone considering returning home, hold your head up high. You gave it a shot!

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

Hi just wanted to say I totally agree with what you have said, at least we gave it a shot! I have no regrets even though I really struggled to make friends when I first came here, I was amazed at how much I was shunned by the women I worked with. It takes a lot to give up your family, friends, job, home and everything you have ever known and move to a new country and I did it all by myself. If the boot had been on the other foot I would have gone out of my way to make someone from overseas feel welcome, invited them out, helped them etc etc
I have to say I always wanted to live in Australia but now I find I have more of an appreciation for my own country. My family and friends, the sense of humour of the British, health care, NHS dentists/doctors, cheap holidays, great shops and being treated decently at work for starters, all the things I took for granted before. I used to hold Aussies in such high regard but I certainly do not now. I have made a few awesome friends who I am sure I will stay in touch with once I leave. Hope things work out for you, we sound like we are both in the same boat!!!

Re: Making A Final Decision
 

I relate so much to a lot of what people are saying here. Am just so torn. Ive got holidays booked back to the UK in Feburary and a one way ticket. So I either make that my move back and slot back into my old life back in Scotland. Or slog it out for a few more years and see what I really want in life. I suppose both have positives and disadvantages.

If I give it another few years in Oz I should really know what I want I suppose. Say if I stay another three years I would have saved a good $80K, studied more in my profession gained more post-grad qualifications and I suppose and hope the situation in Europe is in a better place.

Sometimes I think I just need to man it up and stay in Oz and I think not making a decision is also what is making me unsettled. Who knows hehe! Someone toss a coin for me :-)