sassenach

britsh way of life =
country pubs
equal rights for women
freedom of speech
education for women
good health cover
a reasonable and fair justice system
democracy
a generally exepting indiginous population towards migrants
a green and pleasant land
freedom to breach hatred
freedom to follow what ever religion you wish
the right to self betterment via work



Life under the potential scum that so many of these PC crew are protecting =NONE OF THE ABOVE


I have never seen such a namby pamby load of PC tossers as the ones ganging up on mercedes ,these alledged terrorists are scum and if they have pakistani background and where born in britain they are PAKISTANI BRITISH SCUM end of story there is nothing racist about it ,they are what they are and lets face it if they are prepared to blow up BRITISH in the skys of america ,in my eyes born in britain or not they lose the right to be called british .

Sally

Exile

I think everybody knows that Mercedes was not doing this. Even if you can somehow use semantics and intellectual gymnastics to derive this interpretation from the words on your screen, you must know very well that it was not Mercedes' intended meaning. It seems to me that you are just choosing to take offence.

Also, Mercedes was not talking in terms of passports and legal documents. It's okay to be different (Buddhist, Communist, whatever), but the key point is that these people despise Britain and want to kill people just for being British. Surely wanting indiscriminately to kill British people is about as un-British as you can get.

Exile

Yes, a typo. Nobody's perfect.

Sally

Does it mean we should be free to preach hatred?

Mercedes

I realise that SallyAnne, it may surprise you that I'm not a Christian, and many of my friends are not white, I also have muslim, Hindu, Jews and Buddhist friends. I have Iraqi, Iranian, Chezenan, Russian, Japanese, Vietmese, Black African friends from different cultures and religions. We discuss politics and our views and I am always open in them, some they agree with some they don't, and vise versa.

I know the Pakistani immigrants didn't have an easy time, nor probably did the British African, Chinese, or any others who entered UK as migrants. . Many people have suffered discrimination of some sort in their lives it doesn't necessarily make them into terrorists or potential terrorists now does it?

Whether you like it or not, Pakistan is a hub of terrorists and some of the British born Pakistanis, have been influenced by their relatives in Pakistan, or some fundamentalist waffling in their ears. Where in History have we been threatened with mass murder by people that are considered our own? How many British people do you think feels safe in knowing that there are people within their own country who are willing to kill thousands of them, whether it is religious or political.

What do you think will happen if a British Pakistani or Pakistanis for that matter succeed in killing thousands of British people. Do you think that the British people will view them as bad eggs and continue with their lives or do you think it might spark a religious or racist war within UK? We see at the moment conflicts between religions and culture in other countries, will UK be added to the list. I hope that the islamic fundamentalists don't get into power in UK, because for us women it will be a nightmare. I remember years ago a friend of mine who views herself as Persian, said women used to have freedom there to have professional lives and wear what they want, it is now the new Iran where women have no freedom. I hope that UK never becomes like that.

Scout

Being American and ignorant of just about everything civilised, thank you so much.

Or we could call them Islamic Fascists and insult the billion plus practicers of Islam in the world like our good friend George Bush just did.

Mercedes

Wow you are so touchy. It was said tongue in cheek. Most Americans I have met haven't known much outside your country.

I don't consider Bush a friend I think he is a moron along with course Blair. Maybe when they both get kicked out of government, they could start up as a comedian Act.....Heeerrrrrreees Blair and Bushy...


Jihad from my understanding, means holy war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior rule. That's jihad. Their war is against the Jews and Christians.

In 1998 Osama bin Laden and the leader of the Egyptian Islamic, along with 4 other Islamist leaders co-signed and issued a fatwa (binding religious edict) under the banner of the World islamic Front for Jihad against Jews and crusaders

the ruling to kill the Americans and their allies civilians and military - is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al Agsa mosque in Jerusalem and the holy mosque in Makka from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,' and 'fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah

Again from my understanding and I may be wrong, but they are translating what the Koran says to suit their purpose.

Therefore instead of putting all muslims/islamic associated with extremist together in one pile , it separates them. Would that be a bad thing? Jihad Terrorist opposed to Extreme Islamic Terrorists

Scout

I'm not touchy at all........but I do know condescending stereotyping when I see it.

Cape Blue

Exile - I don't know Mercedes, however when someone says:

They have British passports, they are all Pakistani, I don't think of them as Brits just because they have a British passports. Anyone who wants to blow up 10 passenger planes full of British citizens going on holiday isn't a Brit in my book, they are just Pakistani scum.

Then I don't think that you need to use "semantics and intellectual gymnastics" to get a feel for an opinion that is both negative towards Pakistanis in general and is deluded as to the level of decency of British people with its latent assumption of British superiority (I picture the attitude of an officer in the Raj). There did seem to be references to passports.

It seems to me that you guys are wanting to disassociate yourselves from the fact that it is British people prepared to undertake these horrors, doubtless many Germans thought the same way after WW2. I don't think that trying to pretend that the suspects are Pakistani-British and therefore "not really proper British" is both defensible or sensible in trying to deal with this issue.

I do think that there is a loyalty issue which needs to be addressed in UK society. In the past someone being loyal firstly to their religion (Christianity) and secondly to the UK was tantamount to being the same thing and there were few problems caused by this. With the UK's drift towards secularism and with Islam being a minority religion, a loyalty to Islam before the UK is creating a rift. Some young Muslims appear not to be anti the Iraq war because it was started on a made-up pretext nor because of the general death and destruction, they appear to mostly be anti because it involves their co-religionists which does appear to show a bond stronger than that of country.

I also think that we have mostly tamed Christianity over the past few hundred years into a less authoritarian and bigoted religion (with some exceptions and progress yet to be made). Islam does not appear to have experienced this taming and often seems to have the hallmarks of a religion that is 200 years out of date with democratic and secular values.

sassenach

yes the british allow muslim fundamentalists the freedom to breach hatred on the streets of london

sassenach

yes ,why not it is a form of opinion .
One thing is for sure half of the PC crowd here wouldnt be preaching anything if britain fell under sharia law like the mad mullahs want and the potential terrorists in britain desire .

davidb

A Buddhist/Communist - I think they are a rare species Cape Blue!

My British pholosophy is tolerence (please do not accuse me of being intolerent because I refuse to hug people who are intolerent murderers), democracy and a lack of govt interference in peoples lives. There are millions of immigrants in Britain who subscribe to these ideals and pursue their own lives and religions peacably and in harmony with the whole of society. So I agree that within our pluralistic society there is room for all manner of views and ideals. There is not however room for people who want to destroy our freedom through the use of indiscrimate murder and whether you like it or not these people are mainly Pakastani Muslims, and are without a shadow of doubt, to quote Mercedes, SCUM.

jugsy

I have a wonderful link but I don't know how to set it up. can someone enlighten me?

Mercedes

You really need to get that broom that is sticking up your arse, out. Now I'm being rude, just so you understand when I'm joking and when I'm not.

I wasn't stereotyping, it was a joke, you stupid woman. I actually don't generally sterotype, people are people, I generally don't give a shit what you are as long as you aren't killing other or physically hurting them. You know something I have worked in male dominated industries most of my life with incredibly chavaunistic men at times. The one thing they like working with me they don't have to walk on egg shells around me, they say what the bloody hell they want. I have black friends who can't take me home to meet their family because I'm white and they are racist. Do I get offended do I heck. They have called me names which people like you would have a heart attack, I have called them things that are so un PC that you would want to have me sued. But we are the best of friends that if anyone like you was around you would get both barrels from them. You are the sort of woman that would be the nightmare for all the male colleagues that I have ever worked with. One company that I left, when I went to another division that again was mostly men, I was told at my interview "I've been told you are not one of these stupid women who gets upset at male bantering, so welcome aboard."

Unless someone is shooting at me, and I have had that, because I have been to hostile environment (and no I'm not military) and I have helped Iraqis which on a daily basis have been viewed as second class citizens by some of your military out there. The funniest I ever saw was a British guy being shouted at by an American, because he was thought to be Iraqi, Du SPEAK INGLISH, the guy said I DO MATE THANK YOU BUT I SPEAK IT BETTER THAN YOU, SO I DON'T NEED A LESSON. Everyone around him fell about laughing, you probably would have seen the funny side, I don't get uptight about stupid petty things. The petty stuff in life is irrelevant, you could say all the nasty things in the world to me and unless I gave a damn about you, wouldn't bother me, and then I probably would start laughing... When I know people who have suffered incredible attrocities to them and their family, some have lost everyone they cared about and their home, being raped constantly, have death threats against them, or are dying because they have no medical supplies or food, that to me is some of the important things that will make me mad on their behalf.

I've also been sterotyped as racist because I called a potential terrorist a pakistani scum,and I didn't view them because they happened to be born here as British because they wanted to kill people of the country, as racist. People who have plotted with people from their motherland to destroy the British people. Years ago, it probably would have been viewed as treason and they would have been shot or hung. I wonder if they had been IRA and I have used Irish Scum and they shouldn't be allowed to have a British passport either, whether I would have been jumped on so much. I don't give a **** what the nationality is, a terrorists shouldn't be allowed to be viewed as British if they want to destroy the people of that nation. THEY ARE THE ENEMY, IT IS A WAR TO THEM. (for those who seem to be incredily thick) I delibrately didn't use Islamic extremist or Muslim, because by using that word it is putting the spot light on the muslims throughout the world. Everytime that word is used it is causing problems to other innocent muslims. People probably don't think of that when they use it either, that there are innocent muslims dying throughout the world and more may die in the future, the more it is used, because it is stirring up hate!!