British Expats
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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Moving back or to the UK (https://britishexpats.com/forum/moving-back-uk-61/)
-   -   Language Differences between USA and UK (https://britishexpats.com/forum/moving-back-uk-61/language-differences-between-usa-uk-837126/)

robin1234 Jun 26th 2014 7:10 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 11316272)
Hmm. The plot thickens.
I have looked online, and the origin of soccer is defined as British late nineteenth century abbreviation of Association.

HOWEVER, my ancient printed edition of the Complete Oxford has NO mention of soccer.
My main complaint about the OED is that it includes too many words of uncertain origin. I would really be surprised if the word did exist but was not mentioned in the OED.

Anyone have any better origin?
No, this is correct. (Association versus Rugby.) I believe it is all laid out in the OED, 1998 print edition and online edition.

Sally Redux Jun 26th 2014 7:14 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Bit of a First World Problem we've got going on here :lol:

bigglesworth Jun 26th 2014 9:55 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 11316278)
No, this is correct. (Association versus Rugby.) I believe it is all laid out in the OED, 1998 print edition and online edition.
But, if it were true (and I believed it was) surely, dating from the nineteenth century, it would have been in the 1930s edition as well as the 1971 edition?

And it is not.

More enlightenment needed.

Novocastrian Jun 26th 2014 10:13 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 11316428)
But, if it were true (and I believed it was) surely, dating from the nineteenth century, it would have been in the 1930s edition as well as the 1971 edition?

And it is not.

More enlightenment needed.
I've also always thought that soccer comes from Association. The two forms of football in the UK in the 19th C. were Association and Rugby Football = soccer & rugger.

BristolUK Jun 26th 2014 12:41 pm
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 11316213)
Interesting. Perhaps its adoption by the US also led to a reaction against that word in the UK. :unsure: I seem to remember it being widely used when I was at school, but unfortunately that was, er, several years ago now. :rolleyes:
Used at my school by the Welsh games teachers for whom rugby was football.:lol:

Pulaski Jun 26th 2014 3:05 pm
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 11316542)
Used at my school by the Welsh games teachers for whom rugby was football.:lol:
Maybe that's where/why I heard it - at my school the winter game was rugby; soccer was not an option. (This was not in Wales.)

ncoomber Jun 26th 2014 11:17 pm
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
The difference between Americans and the English is that Americans think 100 years is a long time and that the English think 100 miles is a long way!

robin1234 Jun 27th 2014 1:42 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 11316428)
But, if it were true (and I believed it was) surely, dating from the nineteenth century, it would have been in the 1930s edition as well as the 1971 edition?

And it is not.

More enlightenment needed.
Hmm not sure how to explain that. I must admit I've only looked at the entry in the latest print ed (1998) and the online edition, which is basically the 1998 edition, updated continuously. When I get to the library I'll see if I can find a paper trail in older dictionaries...

Pulaski Jun 27th 2014 2:07 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 11316428)
But, if it were true (and I believed it was) surely, dating from the nineteenth century, it would have been in the 1930s edition as well as the 1971 edition?

And it is not.

More enlightenment needed.
Maybe in the 1930's it was considered to be slang, an informal abbreviation, or otherwise not worthy of inclusion in a reference to the proper use of the King's English. :unsure:

Novocastrian Jun 27th 2014 2:46 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 11317027)
Hmm not sure how to explain that. I must admit I've only looked at the entry in the latest print ed (1998) and the online edition, which is basically the 1998 edition, updated continuously. When I get to the library I'll see if I can find a paper trail in older dictionaries...
According to reference 4 in this article http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2014/Ju...not-soccer.pdf "soccer" was first included in the 1891 edition of the OED. :confused:

bigglesworth Jun 27th 2014 3:38 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Really interesting article Novo. Thank you. Seem pretty conclusive, and very much in tune with everything one reads online.

So why did it NOT appear in between? It is not in my 1971 edition, which is the miniaturised full copy, and which I have always understood to be just an updated edition of the 1930s one, unlike the 1998 complete rewrite?

Unfortunately, I will not be able to get into the Bodleian before the autumn. So Robin please let me know how you get on.

Novocastrian Jun 27th 2014 4:03 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by bigglesworth (Post 11317135)
Really interesting article Novo. Thank you. Seem pretty conclusive, and very much in tune with everything one reads online.

So why did it NOT appear in between? It is not in my 1971 edition, which is the miniaturised full copy, and which I have always understood to be just an updated edition of the 1930s one, unlike the 1998 complete rewrite?

Unfortunately, I will not be able to get into the Bodleian before the autumn. So Robin please let me know how you get on.
I suppose we'd have to consult a library copy of the 1891 ed. to be sure, but perhaps "soccer" was merely mention as an abr. in the entry for Football or Association Football?

robin1234 Jun 28th 2014 11:01 am
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11317169)
I suppose we'd have to consult a library copy of the 1891 ed. to be sure, but perhaps "soccer" was merely mention as an abr. in the entry for Football or Association Football?
Yup I have that ed in my library, but I'm on holiday now, poor me!

moneypenny20 Jun 28th 2014 9:43 pm
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
There have been a pile of programmes on British tv with 'soccer' in the title over the years including Soccer Sunday in the 70s and Soccer AM now. I'm sure we called it soccer at school in the 70s. (From an Aus perspective, I've never worked out why Aussie Rules is called football when they rarely touch the ball with their feet.

Pulaski Jun 28th 2014 11:46 pm
Re: Language Differences between USA and UK
 
Originally Posted by moneypenny20 (Post 11318669)
....., I've never worked out why Aussie Rules is called football when they rarely touch the ball with their feet.
Same reason (American) football is, ........ whatever reason that is? :unsure:


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