not2old

Pistolpete2

If there is a worldwide financial services collapse then not only will property prices drop but the ability of the average Joe to pay for anything is uncertain so it's hardly as though the property prices are simply coming to Mama, end of.

Some nice folks might wish for such an event but the repercussions are so far-reaching that it's hard to ponder it, particularly in an individual national economy based upon property prices and easy/cheap credit souped up to the eye-balls in public sector / sovereign debt. A major decline in UK property prices would devastate the economy for all sorts of reasons which is exactly why the powers that be stoke it as much as they are able without drawing too much attention from the B of E. There isn't anything else to create the aura of wealth in the UK, much-needed in a consumer economy - hard work just doesn't cut it and successful playing of the stock markets is only for the properly-informed risk-takers.

Check the fines that JP Morgan is paying out of petty cash without batting an eye-lid while the shares go up and up. I don't think we are on the edge of a cliff just yet even though European banks have an awful lot of work to do to be rehabilitated but it would help to be able to capture some of those taxes that should be paid by the very rich but which are not because of their political clout and because the fools keep on saying that low taxes for the rich causes them to get their entrepreneurial juices going and create employment .

If London and the South-East go down, so does the rest IMHO.

Renting never did anybody any harm but renting on the expectation that the end is nigh seems to be rather misguided. Central London property price rises are unsustainable but that's the extent of it.

There will be damage to London prices if Europe does a grab on London's financial services action but there are other countries that are merrily visibly screwing their economies due to well-entrenched political interests which seem to be ending up cutting their noses to spite their faces, making London more attractive by the minute.

dunroving

Wholly agree that if house prices plummet the sh*t would truly hit the fan. The solution seems to be to restrain house prices, or limit the fall in house prices, until wages start to catch up and houses become affordable again. Human nature being what it is, and obsession with home ownership being what it is, it will be difficult to prevent buyers driving prices up, though.

Pistolpete2

The thing is that GO wants to keep the economy going by consumers leveraging off this perceived wealth, while he lowers real wage levels to make the UK more competitive so that everything is then in place, along with low corporate tax rates, for the great export-led rebirth, pointing at Asia.

Hence the endless squeeze.

Fortunately, Aldi and Lidl are coming to the rescue - God I'm impressed and already have my shopping plans at them on ice - so that full-scale rebellion is forestalled for now. Tesco, Morrisons and to a lesser extent Sainsbury's will have to respond or sink, making things even better.

dunroving

I have been doing a bit more research on this since I decided to aim for an early retirement, which necessarily will mean "less money".

I see the point that people make about "If it's cheap, there's a reason", but the reason isn't always necessarily a bad reason.

Where I live is an example. The area 5-10 miles north of Glasgow has plenty of small towns and villages with reasonable public transport to Glasgow (bus or train, depending on the location). Admittedly, the bus service where I live is only about once an hour (with one extra service during rush hour). So, everything that a big city has to offer within a short distance.

Despite being so close to a city, we are at least semi-rural and some would even say rural. Edge of the Loch Lomond National park, short walk from the West Highland Way, and a network of paths for walking and cycling (not great for road cycling though; the roads are unsafe).

The village/small town I live in has a library, pub (though not a particularly good one), two shops (though one is closing), pharmacy, two hairdressers (not that I need it, just give it a good buff and polish each day), football field, allotments, takeaway, and at least a half-dozen other small shops.

Housing varies from council housing to ex-council housing to £1,000,000+ houses on the outskirts. As you'd think we therefore range from the local scallywags and chronically unemployed to professionals and the "independently wealthy". There are some spots that are a bit scruffy, and we have a problem with litter, minor vandalism and, yes, we have poo-trees (they do exist, although some deny these can ever be found in the UK). But no major problems, even though you have the extremes living cheek-by-jowl.

We also have a 2-doctor local practice and I can get an appointment same day in an emergency or within a week if not. Local primary school is excellent.

Low-end house prices vary from about £80k for small 1- and 2-BR flats to about £150k for 3-BR terraces and semis. I live in a 3-BR ex-council semi (more like an end terraced, really) that cost £180k originally, at the height of the market and I guesstimate would cost about £145k-£155k now.

If I could transport this house and community elsewhere, I'd be perfectly happy. The two main things that lead to me wanting to move after retiring are the location (too far up for regular driving to/from England, and can't get anyone from England to visit - though lots of my US friends have flown the Atlantic to visit!) and the weather (long, cold, damp winters with very short days and in mid-summer a night that is so short you feel like you are sleeping in the middle of the day).

I will post in a separate post some of the areas I have found in my searching but it is reassuring to know that these kinds of places do exist.

Having said that, you'd have to do some local research to know about where I live. Other communities just a couple of miles away are just a little cheaper and there's no way I'd live there because of the social and crime problems.

not2old

@post 122, 123, 124 & 125

what are you boys on about ..... is there a bit of snobbery in this thread & just how many of you belonged to a typical working class family from the council estate, some may be from the benefits street, you just never know who your neighbours are.

Do you really believe that house price drops of 50% would be the end of the world?

What about if there was a 30% unemployment rate, that would be a cause for concern. Of course a 30% unemployment rate, even 15% in the UK would likely never occur - or would it & if it did, we'd be back to the dark days of the depression where some folks still made lots of money.

And as for folks that keep on chasing the almighty buck, flogging or prostituting themselves, slaving because they think they wont have enough money is all horse $hit

As for bargain basement shopping - B&M, Aldi, Lidl, Iceland, Morrisons or the past date food shops or charity shops for clothing & housewares. My impression was that everyone shopped that way until you read some of the posts on BE that folks shop at M&S, Waitrose & other up market shops.

Yet, they will look for the cheapest foreign getaway holiday or switch utility suppliers at the drop of a penny.

Now back to the OP thread & economics of 'communities for the bargain basement crowd' - its all to do with what you can afford or that you want to return to the UK & live within 10 miles of the place that you left [or is it?].

If I could afford a million pound property with all of the added costs that go along with it & a nice shinny limo - I'd likely stick to my original 125K seaside area bungalow, likely not own a vehicle, use the travel pass so it wears out & needs replacing every 12 months & find a way to milk the system.

Budget my/our lifestyle to what we get in government old age pensions

Editha

Just for reference, the UK charity The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which does a survey of cost of living for the UK, reckons that all old age pensioners in the UK have enough for a reasonable standard of living, provided they claim the benefits they are entitled to:http://www.jrf.org.uk/topic/mis

not2old

so true & thanks for posting that

According to the Age UK website similar to what you linked

Every year, as much as £5.5bn of benefits that older people are entitled to go unclaimed - including Council Tax Benefit, Housing Benefit and Pension Credit. Below are some figures that illustrate the problem.

Of course the government is all too pleased about this & why would they drop a letter telling the OAP whats available. As we know many pensioners are not 'tech savvy' or have no one to inform or give them this information

holly_1948

contains the text:
* These amounts are after income tax, and do not include housing or childcare costs.

What nonsense is that? For many people housing is the big expense, dwarfing the other things.

And
Every year, as much as £5.5bn of benefits that older people are entitled to go unclaimed - including Council Tax Benefit, Housing Benefit and Pension Credit. Below are some figures that illustrate the problem.
It doesn't go unclaimed because people don't want or don't need the money. It's because it is too hard to claim and too risky to claim because you are punished if you make a mistake and claim the wrong thing that you are not entitled to (which is very easy to do). So people play safe and don't claim.

Editha

I don't think anyone at the Rowntree Trust would disagree with you. But there are benefits for housing too.

Their study is really interesting and useful, in my opinion. If you are thinking of coming back to the UK and want to know if you'll have enough to live on, perhaps in the way Dunrovin is suggesting -- accepting that you'll have a modest standard of living, but good enough -- then this is the calculator to use. The link is here:http://www.minimumincome.org.uk/.

not2old

back on track with the OP

Would you consider buying either one of the following as being bargain basement?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-41587273.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-28872276.html

holly_1948

In that calculator, this though is a trap -
> These calculations assume the household is eligible for benefits and tax credits, depending on its income.

There are lots of people who have a small pension in addition to less-than-full-amount state pension that puts them over the limit for pension credit and housing benefit. With the result that their total income is a lot less than it would be if they didn't have that small private pension.

For expats, a better number for a pensioner living alone with a minimal standard of living is a pension totalling £12,400/year (£238.46 times 52), not £6,145 per year, giving a net income of £238.46 per week.

Or, indeed, perhaps £6,145 per year if you own your home free and clear.

I'm not complaining about the standard of living, but the calculator really applies to long term residents. Not to ex-pats who will typically have a blend of a private pension and less than a full UK state pension. It's quite common for elderly widowed or divorced women to have private pensions that pay derisory sums.

dunroving

Have re-read those posts and not sure what the comment about snobbery is referring to ...?

holly_1948

First one is an investor's property, not an owner-occupier residence, unless it is for a young, growing and energetic family perhaps.
Second one, not enough details to know what is being offered. Does "garden flat" mean ground floor flat with french windows opening out onto a garden? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Pistolpete2

I'm guessing that by saying that a property crash driven by a financial services global collapse would be disastrous/devastating,

one is saying that one doesn't wish for the crash which would help hard-working and working class folks gain access to the property ladder at a bargain basement price level appropriate for their means,

and is therefore happy with current property price levels which in turn implies a certain richness and snobbishness.